SCOAN attempts to blackmail TB Joshua Watch

Love keeps no record of wrongs… but SCOAN does.

Since TB Joshua Watch started publishing testimonies of ex-disciples and hosting open debate about TB Joshua’s ministry, we have received lots of threatening comments. However, last week the threat was stepped up a gear.

A comment was left on the blog that was truly disturbing. The commenter claimed that the person behind TB Joshua Watch is a certain female ex-disciple. This ex-disciple, claimed the commenter, had confessed all sorts of ‘nasty things’ while a disciple at SCOAN, which were kept on video in the SCOAN archive. The commenter said that SCOAN should publish this video to shame the ex-disciple and ‘stop her nonsense’. The commenter claimed to be Jerry, a ‘white woman from Pretoria’ but the comment came from a Lagos IP address. We have very good reason to believe the comment came from SCOAN itself. A few quotes:

The lady I am looking at confessed the life she was living. If she is the one that holds this site called TB Joshua Watch, I think she must have forgotten those nasty things. There is nothing she did not confess…. T.B. Joshua, go to your library on April 11, 2001 and bring out the confession of this lady and let people know the person she is… I know The SCOAN is good at keeping records. If her video is posted like that of Bisola, another girl in Nigeria who said all sorts of rubbish, she will be put to shame. It was when her video in the library of The SCOAN was posted that all of her nonsense stopped. I think this girl’s video should also be posted to stop her nonsense.”

We did not publish the comment and instead sent an email to their address. We explained that the people who run TB Joshua Watch have never been disciples. Of the six people that are involved to varying degrees in running the blog, only one has been to SCOAN, and this was only as a visitor. We told them that what they were suggesting amounted to blackmail, and we would not be swayed by it.

They replied, repeating the threat and claiming that our response had persuaded them that we were in fact the ex-disciple that they had suspected. They also forwarded an email they had apparently received from info@scoan.org, the main SCOAN email address:

Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 14:16:29
From: info@scoan.org
To: Jerrys1@live.com
Subject: REPLY

Hello,
Thank you for drawing our attention to the website, TBJoshuawatch.com. A few people in the past have contacted us that there was a site out there as such but going by what you have said, it seems clear that those mentioned are in fact the owners of the website. The video you referred to has been located in the library.
We are awaiting the group’s flight details from your group leader.
Looking forward to seeing you,

The SCOAN

We believe that this is a blackmail attempt from inside SCOAN. We also believe that this kind of intimidation is standard SCOAN policy. What is our evidence for this?

1) The exact same IP address of ‘Jerry’ (in other words, the same computer, located in Lagos) had been used to write several earlier comments on the blog, each fiercely pro-TB Joshua and each under a different name. One comment was left under the name of Helen, making contact with frequent commenter and TBJ supporter Soe: “Soe, I’m impressed by your comments. May I please request your contact? Are you on Facebook? Is there anyway I can get in touch with you? Here is my email address…” (incidentally, are we expected to believe that Jerry, apparently an outsider, knew the exact date that this ex-disciple made a confession ten years ago?)

2) This is not the first time that SCOAN disciples have posted comments under different identities. The commenter ‘Radicalised’ has recently written comments about details of life as a disciple, disputing Paul Agomoh’s account. However, we know from the IP address that the same person wrote comments under at least 4 different names, one of which was ‘Voiceout’. In this comment (at the end of this article) the disciple claimed to represent “a group of seminary students who came across this website while executing a search for ‘prophets of our days”.

3) There is indisputable evidence that SCOAN keeps archives of recorded confessions, and has used these videos in the past for the purpose of blackmail and smearing. Bisola Johnson predicted they would publish her confession videos when she spoke out against TB Joshua (see from 2 min 43 onwards on this video). Soon afterwards, SCOAN did exactly that, releasing her confessions in the form of the “Beware of Blasphemers” video. Ex-disciple Giles has also confirmed that recording confessions is commonplace for disciples. This is a classic tactic of cults- other cults such Scientology do the same.

The strategy is familiar. What surprised and appalled us was the target that SCOAN chose for this intimidation. While many different ex-disciples have given testimonies to the blog, the majority have been male. SCOAN decided to target one of the only women to have contributed. And they have threatened to publish a video of a teenage girl confessing her sins circa 2001 in order to intimidate us into silence. This is a shameless and disgusting move, but also short-sighted. How does this make SCOAN look good?

If you are a supporter of SCOAN, please consider these questions.

  • Can any SCOAN supporter suggest a wholesome or biblical reason for keeping archives of recorded confessions? How does it square with 1 Corinthians 13 ,“Love keeps no record of wrongs”?
  • What are SCOAN hiding, that they need to keep so much blackmail material? If it’s not blackmail material, why keep it?

90 thoughts on “SCOAN attempts to blackmail TB Joshua Watch

  1. @ tbjoshuawatch

    When the bible says Love keeps no record of wrongs, its not talking of having no remembrance of the wrong, or ignoring what has happened, for God Loves even the wicked, but at the end of the world what are the wicked going to be judged with? Isn’t it a record of their wrongs? Does that now mean God isn’t Loving by keeping their offences for the day of judgement? If we take the scripture as a whole and not just a part then we’ll see how that text simply tells us that Love where it is true continues even when it has reasons to hate- Similar to what the book of proverbs talks about when it says : It is to man’ s glory TO OVERLOOK AN OFFENCE” PROV 19:11.

    So about Scoan keeping records of peoples wrongs just to use it against them at a later date I have this to say;
    In my opinion, this is no way near the truth-but can be easily misinterpreted to mean the above – If they have such records of peoples confessions, it’ll just be as like a drop of water in their sea of archives- consisting of thousands upon thousands of many other records of healings, deliverance and prophecy, visitors visits, crusades, weddings, meetings with the needy, physically challenged, and humanitarian works etc- so just keeping record of peoples wrongs for a later use is too shallow a reason for the HEAVY, INTENSIVE and DETAILED recording of all the happenings there- they don’t make it a point of duty to record only confessions; virtually everything there is recorded; even up to the disciples meeting. So peoples confessions just happen to be a part of the recordings and NOT a reason for it.

    2. There’s no way I would comment on this without referring to the practice of open confessions in Scoan; as the bible says ; BETTER is OPEN REBUKE than HIDDEN LOVE- PROVERBS 27: 5 – though some people aren’t really comfortable with this; Scoan believes in the need for open confessions to expose the works of Satan (which he very much hates), as a means for others to learn and a prerequisite for deliverance from the demons of destruction and sin (lust,hatred, anger murder etc) – in line with what the Bible says regarding open confessions: Therefore, CONFESS YOUR SINS TO ONE ANOTHER and PRAY for one another, that you may be HEALED.- James 5:16. AS sin is the sickness of the soul. Our sins most times affect hundreds of people negatively, So as an act of restitution for all the lives our evil deeds have affected; we are required to give an open confession so that hundreds and even thousands too can be affected positively and also be convicted of their own sin. It is an action required even in the scriptures of the genuinely repentant, and not in anyway Forced in Scoan but a matter of choice!

    3. At the inception of Scoan there was almost no media coverage of the happenings the ministry- so the detractors of the ministry capitalized on that to misinform the world about TBJ And his ministry- it was a trying time for Scoan, so as a price of keeping focused and presenting the truth to the world- One of the characteristics scoan has developed over time is video recording of every church activity. And ALL the recordings done there are NOT blackmail material or whatever, or just for display on Emmanuel TV But FOR generations yet unborn-And are always archived for such future reference to glorify God- as is instructed in the scriptures: LET THIS BE RECORDED for a GENERATION TO COME, so that a people YET to be CREATED may PRAISE the LORD: – Psalms 102:18!

    • Wow Soe, you have a gift at saying so much while saying so little!

      The practice of open confession is certainly unusual, but not in itself aberrant. The practice of filming and archiving all these confessions is very strange, but even more sinister when it becomes clear that they see no problem in using these intimate confessions as blackmail material. Let’s just focus on the key point here – the post above shows clear intent to blackmail someone (a criminal offense by the way) using her private confessions. Even without this post, you know full well that they’ve done this before. Forget about justifying open confession, forget about whether or not God keeps records of wrongs, forget about trying to justify their detailed record keeping (nothing wrong with that in itself). These issues are insignificant compared to the crystal clear one presented above – don’t try to disguise that by diverting our attention to irrelevancies.

      • Soe, going into defiitions of blackmail just looks dodgey. This is like the monica lewinski scandal

        “Define sexual relations” – Bill Clinton

  2. By the way, you are right ian. Blackmail is against the law. Emailing the paper trail to the site manager is probably the stupidest things they have done.

  3. @ Ian,

    I’m not diverting anyone’s attention to Irrelevances, and I reserved my point blank comment on the issue because I was a bit uncomfortable with the term “BLACKMAIL” you guys used in your post,- in all sincerity, its a bit of a stretch from the reality of this issue:

    Wikipedia defines blackmail In common usage, as a crime involving THREATS to REVEAL substantially true and/or false information about a person to the public, a family member, or associates UNLESS A DEMAND IS MET; and in England and Wales this offence is created by section 21(1) of the Theft Act 1968. Sections 21(1)and (2) of that. Act provide:

    (1) A person is GUILTY of blackmail IF, with a view to GAIN FOR HIMSELF or another or with intent to cause loss to another, he MAKES any unwarranted DEMAND with MEANANCES….”

    And you yourself would agree that in no way do the videos which Scoan released on blasphemers suit this criteria, Whether through the making of THREATS or making of DEMANDS!

    Perhaps I could respond if a more appropriate term fitting the above cases of released videos you mentioned is used.

    • And you yourself would agree that in no way do the videos which Scoan released on blasphemers suit this criteria, Whether through the making of THREATS or making of DEMANDS!

      I guess what you’re saying is that SCOAN just released the videos, they didn’t threaten or make demands. That may be what it looked like to the outside world, but in the case above the demand is that this “nonsense” is stopped and the threat is that if it isn’t stopped, they will reveal “substantially true and/or false information about a person to the public” = Blackmail! thanks for clearing that up! ;-)

      Given the behaviour towards this site, it seems likely that Bisola/Paul Agomo received similar threats, which were carried through when they didn’t withdraw their accusations. Again if this was the case, it would = blackmail!

      None of us know for sure what happened before Beware of Blasphemers was released, but the story given above about the threats towards this site is clear. By the definition you provided, it is 100% blackmail. Agree?

  4. @ Soe,

    “When the LORD shall build up Zion, he shall appear in his glory. He will regard the prayer of the destitute, and not despise their prayer. This shall be WRITTEN for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise the LORD. Psalm 102:16-18″

    The right interpretation is:

    This shall be written for the generation to come….. It shall be recorded for the instruction and encouragement of future ages. The fact that God has heard the prayer of his people in a time of trial shall be so recorded and remembered that it may be referred to in similar circumstances in all time to come, for he is an unchanging God. What he has done now, he will always be willing to do hereafter.

    Totally NOT relevant to recording anyone’s confessions on video TAPE, but about their PRAYERS to God at Him.

    Psalms 102:17…..

    He will regard the prayer…..literally, “He looks upon,” or “he ‘turns himself’ to their prayer.” He does not any longer seem to turn away from them and disregard them. He shows by thus building up Zion that he does regard prayer; that he hears the supplications of his people.

    Please SCOAN, send Soe, to some Theological Seminary for understanding the true meaning of the Scriptures and application. Thank you.

  5. @ Soe,

    ” So as an act of restitution for all the lives our evil deeds have affected; we are required to give an open confession so that hundreds and even thousands too can be affected positively and also be convicted of their own sin. It is an action required even in the scriptures of the genuinely repentant, and not in anyway Forced in Scoan but a matter of choice!”

    The confessions that in the Anointing Water contains the Blood of Jesus is to my opinion forced on the person to say this on camera as an advertisement to let people come to church for a solution as if all their problems are all gone after that. Anointing Water = No more problems.

    Unbiblical, Heretic and in complete error.

  6. @ian

    What an interesting effort on your part to make it fit, unless that in blackmail, contact is made with the victims, threats are made to them before the evidences are released not after it, AND demands are usually in the material in form of money, position or whatever- of which this very issue stands much wanting of when weighed against the standard crime of blackmail that’s why I would rather have you use a term other than blackmail, I cannot defend the ministry of a crime they did not commit,- besides since the advent of the blasphemers till date have any of them confirmed receiving threats or demands of any form? To the best of my knowledge and from all their explicit accounts NO! Like you yourself used “if it was the case” implying that they weren’t even to the best of your knowledge”

    But blackmail is indeed a crime as Giles said and if the ministry is really guilty of such, there is full legal provision in the law for the blasphemers to move against the ministry as there’s punishment for blackmail- why haven’t the blasphemers taken the case to the courts? Where justice will be served and established? At least many critics of the ministry would be willing to sponsor them if money were a factor hindering them Just as they were sponsored by some pastors to produce the deception of the age video, Even you guys behind TBjoshuawatch would be very much ready to assist them- and if you still insist that the ministry is guilty of blackmail because of those b o b videos, then the evidences are everywhere on the internet I suggest they go to the courts to state their case- there is full legal provision for them if its just as you say!

    I really have a problem talking about alleged crimes here, the law enforcement agents and law courts are meant for such, I’d rather we talk here about spiritual matters that wouldn’t be entertained either by the police or the courts of law.

  7. I want to say something sarcastic here, but thought it best not.

    This blackmail is just revolting. I’m so happy that my sins are in the past and God does not think about them anymore. Guess who remembers and reminds us of our sins? The accuser aka the devil. It is becoming clearer that SCOAN is an instrument of satan!

    Thanks tbjoshuawatch for standing up to this repulsive organisation.

  8. Soe – you state that blackmail ‘usually’ involves demands for money – I would not know whether that is true or not, but the point surely is that it does not HAVE to involve a demand for money, it can involve other demands, which is the point being made here.

    The God I know generally keeps my sins between the two of us, He seems to feel no need to make them public – so I am not sure why SCOAN would want to record someone’s confessions in the first place or feel it necessary to make them public at any point, regardless of what people do.

    Surely if SCOAN feels that people are making untrue or defamatory statements about it, then it can take legal recourse, it doesn’t have to try to embarrass people by making their confessions public. And in this case it seems they are considering causing embarrassment to one person because of actions taken by others.

    Soe – have you ever had a confession recorded? If you have, how would you feel if that confession was made public years later? Or do you think it is justified to embarrass and hurt people if they do something you don’t like?

    And ultimately what does releasing these confessions achieve? Who amongst us has not sinned or done things we later regret?

    Also who are these blasphemers you talk about? None of the ex-disciples whose comments I have read on this blog have blasphemed – according to the Cambridge dictionary, blaspheny is ‘something which you say or do that shows you do not respect God or a religion’. I don’t think people making statements about SCOAN counts as blasphemy!

  9. Hi Soe – busy morning for you today
    So far today you are a lone voice trying to explain the actions of SCOAN
    You say that you cannot defend the ministry for a crime they did not commit,

    I would ask you how you can defend this behaviour in any way.

    What term would you use for this, that would enable you to respond?

    Regarding the archives: SCOAN seem to have had no trouble finding this particular drop in the sea and be keen to publish the fact that they had found it.

  10. @ Claire,

    You said something about embarrassing people by making their confessions public! I’m Sorry to burst your bubble there, but I choose to see it as a weapon against Satan rather than an embarrassment , everyone knows that confessions going public is something that cannot be avoided anymore at Scoan- whose faithfuls have set aside shame and pretence for a much greater good- the good of a powerful force (open confession) that exposes the works of Satan who operates in secrecy and thrives on how ignorant men are of his devices and schemes- Just as Paul says:

    it isn’t even a big deal anymore as you’re trying to make of it, take for instance bisola’s confession had only quite a few listeners as at the time it was recorded but have you considered presently how many thousands sit to listen to these open confessions in the church auditorium? and how the number in the church is not even up to 1% of the viewers worldwide watching the programme live and unedited via satellite and internet? I guess if shame could kill during confession that would be the perfect place to die, but what we continually hear is testimonies of people formerly haunted by their past now living and walking in liberty.

    @tbjoshuawatch

    I see us making so much here out of so little, in your post about the IP addresses traced and found to be the same, being a computer literate myself I know that it is very possible for two or more people to comment on your blog and their IP address would certainly be the same- if it is a shared computer- and if you’re familiar with Nigerian internet services- not many people in Nigeria own an pc that’s connected to the internet, most that are connected are shared in workplaces, banks, cyber cafe’s etc if few people us a shared pc to comment here how do you expect all the comments to have different IP addresses? And the Jerry you mentioned seems to be very observant visitor that perhaps during his visit took note of the date of that confession- but whichever the case, to be on a safer side we must acknnowledge the fact is NONE of us commenting here are agents of Scoan, including I myself, because Scoan has NO agents whatsoever- whatever opinion given here is personal to the commenters and I don’t think any should be tied to Scoan, not even mine as I have once made clear on this site. Any agents or representatives of Scoan would have to be officially declared so, and till date I know of none who are, not even I myself!

    • You’re right that it could be a shared computer used by several different people. By this you mean a shared computer in Lagos, being used to comment on exactly the same blog by several different passionate SCOAN supporters in a matter of a few weeks, at least one of whom is definitely lying about their location. The chance of this being a random internet cafe in Lagos is extremely remote. It would be possible that it was a shared computer within SCOAN, true. This would back up our assertion that this is an act of SCOAN insiders.

      Several critical commenters on this blog have said that they are, or have been, SCOAN disciples. Of course they do not claim to be speaking as SCOAN representatives. They are here in a personal capacity. Btw in one of the comments from the same IP address as ‘Jerry’ you were asked for your email address. You may be able to enlighten us. Who was this ‘Helen’ who asked to get in touch? Did she make contact with you?

      • @ tbjoshuawatch,

        Asking about who ‘helen’ was and if she contacted me- Yeah we did email privately once, but that was all, and the summary of her mail to me was curiosity- she seemed surprised and at the same time happy with how I always seemed to support the prophet in my comments here, and asked if I was in anyway connected with him and I responded with the same thing I’ve been saying all along on this site- that my opinions here are entirely mine, and in no way tied to Scoan as an agent or whatever, but I comment here as a concerned friend of both you guys and Scoan itself.

        In my own opinion, from her email, I think she’s no more than a concerned Scoan supporter in the same way several others like radicalised are on this site and I wouldn’t want us to jump off to hasty conclusions unless we have unmistakable proof.

  11. I want you all tot take note of the word “virtually everything there is recorded.”
    and the blasphemers themselves know of this.they were willing to surrender all at that time.in order to receive their deliverance.
    I don’t see how Scoan’s showing such clip turns to Blackmail.
    This was not published in order to reveng or blackmail anyone. I believe it was meant for the public to know the truth and thereby stoping them from blaspheming aswell.because Tb Joshua loves people and would not because of two peoples confesion make everyone go into wrong judgment and blasphem against the servant of God.is this clear enough?

    • What on earth!? Please, all SCOAN supporters, even if you only get this one thing… You cannot say ‘blaspheme against the servant of God’ unless you believe that servant IS God!!!!! Do you have a dictionary? If not, use Google…

      Totally and utterly exasperating… it is like talking to a brick wall!

      And shame on you for defending this blackmail. Imagine it is your child sharing their darkest deeds on camera just for them to use it against him/her later on. It is NOT Godly or anything else you may attribute to it! It is downright evil.

      blas·phe·my .
      impious utterance or action concerning God or sacred things.
      a. an act of cursing or reviling God.
      b. pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton (YHVH) in the original, now forbidden manner instead of using a substitute pronunciation such as Adonai.
      Theology . the crime of assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God.

    • I may not have understood very clearly what you have written Doi, but you say “TB Joshua loves people” The communication that has been described in this post does not demonstrate love.

  12. Soe – in reply to my comment you say that you choose to see the publication on the internet of recorded confessions as a weapon against Satan. I have to say I could not disagree with you more – in the Catholic church confessions are made in private – neither the confessor nor the priest hearing the confession knows who the other is and the priest is bound never to reveal the confession to any other person. I am not Catholic, but I totally agree with this approach. You bring your sins to God- you don’t trumpet them around the streets.

    You also say that publishing confessions is not an embarrassment. Again I must disagree with you. The comment from Jerry says ‘if this video is posted.. she will be put to shame’. The stated motivation for publishing the video is clearly to hurt or embarrass the person concerned. And surely if someone has made a confession before his or her God and this has been recorded, even if there were many thousands who witnessed the original confession, this does not give anyone the right to publish the recording on the internet without the confessor’s agreement. And I’m sorry – even if only a few people looked at Bisola’s confession, that doesn’t make it OK if it was published without her agreement.

    Are you sure you would want this to happen to you or someone you love?

  13. Giles the word is VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING. Not everything.

    @someone somewhere.
    Yea.act of cursing God, impious action concerning God.but
    he who hurts God’s servant hurts God.he who curse God’s servant curses God.
    Luke 10:16.

    • Blasphemy is only against God! If you use this verse as a defence you still equating yourself with God. Very poor interpretation of Scripture.

  14. No doi. Not even virtually everything. You have no way of knowing how much is edited out because you are not a disciple. You are guessing.

  15. Giles trust me.i know more than a disciple.i’ve been in this ministry since it’s inception.and many a time i’ve stayed in the church.even attend the disciple meetings.which are for disciples alone.so when i talk i don’t just talk.you go ahead an mention what you believe was edited like you did before.

  16. What I find particularly telling about this post and the comments following is how Doi and Soe don’t even doubt or question the accusation (except for disputing the use of the word blackmail).

    If SCOAN was a genuine ministry, you would expect those loyal to it to claim that it must have been a zealous but misguided TBJ fan who sent these emails, not from SCOAN itself. You might even expect them to offer to make inquiries to get to the bottom of it. Instead, they just try to justify it. The problem is, nobody except the most ardent SCOAN loyalist sees this behaviour as in any way justifiably. If someone reading the post was sitting on the fence re: TBJ, the post itself may not sway them – but the comments following certainly would! Good job guys! Keep it up!

    • @ian

      Your suggestions are right in the first
      Part of your comment, and I couldn’t agree with you more on that- as the comments used for this topic post were gotten from the commenters on this site and I NEVER justified any of the comments whether that of Jerry or whoever, and I only talked about using a term other than “blackmail” when you mentioned agomoh and bisola, – not at all referring to or justifying the comments from which the topic post was formed, besides that you guys didn’t approve it yourselves- shows that it was way too disgusting and hardly anything to be reckoned with the Scoan I know in all its integrity, But how come you didn’t notice me suggesting the same in my reply to tbjoshuawatch when I said above that:

      ” We must acknowledge the fact is NONE of us commenting here are agents of Scoan, including I myself, because Scoan has NO agents whatsoever- whatever opinion given here is PERSONAL to the commenters and I don’t think any should be tied to Scoan, not even mine as I have once made clear on this site. Any agents or representatives of Scoan would have to be officially declared so, and till date I know of none who are, not even I myself!”

      Ian, seems like for once we both agree on something controversial!

      • Have you ever heard of governments using mercenary agents to do their dirty work? This gives them deniability if it goes wrong, but if it goes right they get their dirty work done – win/win. If SCOAN have no official representatives doesn’t that suggest this is what they do?

        In any case, let’s make this clear. Are you unequivocally condemning the tactic described above of threatening to release private confession videos if a critic doesn’t shut up? Yes or no? You last comment seems to suggest you would, but previous ones have seemed to justify the behaviour. Can you confirm?

      • @ Ian,

        I’m indeed surprised and apalled at how you could liken a ministry like SCOAN in all its OPENESS, to political institutions that are much shrouded in SECRECY – even by suggesting that they have “dirty work”? what in the world would warrant such a thought in your heart?

        what could a ministry that ALWAYS transmits its services LIVE to the world possibly have to hide? If I could define Scoan in this context, it would be the direct OPPOSITE of secrecy- though that may not mean anything to you guys here but as far as I know, the world is more abreast with the happenings in Scoan than in any other living ministry I know by virtue of their LIVE broadcasts –
        Secondly: to clarify my stand on the two issues you linked my support to;

        The action I outrightly did not support is “issuing threats” and “attempted blackmail” such as that commenter implied, even the language and tone of her comments portrays spitefulness, far from the Loving character we’re constantly taught by example to imbibe at SCOAN-

        On the other hand, The release of the beware of blasphemers video that I found absolutely NO fault with was NOT blackmail- though you seem to believe it is; I very much still maintain that it is NOT- Perhaps checking out wikipedia’s “definition”, “ajudging criteria for” and “Laws” on blackmail would put things in PERSPECTIVE for you (with the exception of spiritual issues) The Law is what unarguably defines crime, and what it is not, and the b o b video is CERTAINLY NOT blackmail because it doesn’t MATCH UP to the known criteria menaces explicitly stated in the Law for blackmail. And if you agree with this and you yourselves refer to those beware of blasphemers videos by a term other than blackmail, then as I said before perhaps, I would be able to respond appropriately, But as far as you hold on to the b o b video being blackmail – you’ll have to pardon me for remaining silent over it because I really do have nothing to say in defence of a crime that the ministry didn’t commit by the known criteria for ajudging blackmail sufficiently covered by the jurisdiction of the Law.

      • even by suggesting that they have “dirty work”? what in the world would warrant such a thought in your heart?

        Er… have you forgotten what site you’re on?

        what could a ministry that ALWAYS transmits its services LIVE to the world possibly have to hide?

        You think just because they broadcast their services live they have nothing to hide? Eddie Long broadcasts all his services live, yet he recently came to an out of court settlement with some men who accused him of sexually abusing them as boys.

        As for Beware of Blasphemers not being blackmail, the fact is – we don’t know! The threat of its release could have been used as blackmail, or they could have just released it without any contact, which wouldn’t have been blackmail, neither of us know the background of that for sure. This is irrelevant though, you’re using the same tactic you used on Madeline when you kept bringing the conversion back to Bisola no matter how many times she said she knew nothing of the woman. You are ignoring the fact that what was described in the post above, the email from Jerry is blackmail, even by the definition you provided! You can deny that it comes from SCOAN if you like, but I get the feeling you can’t be too sure about that. Forget about Bisola and Beware of Blasphemers, the article didn’t even call that blackmail, it just said it was evidence that SCOAN uses confessions for that sort of thing.

      • The initial comment does not demonstrate the
        “Loving character we’re constantly taught by example to imbibe at SCOAN-”
        but SCOAN responded to the commenter with thanks for her information and a confirmation that they had acted on the suggestion to find the video. So the example set here by SCOAN is also not demonstrating loving character.

      • @Madelaine

        I’ll commend you for narrowing this issue down to the fact that whatever is the case – what REALLY matters is if Scoan adopts the suggestion, but at the same time its rather campy that you could INSINUATE their “THANKS” to the commenter as a “CONFIRMATION” that they have adopted the suggestion, Can I remind you that appreciating a suggestion doesn’t mean an ACCEPTANCE of it”?

        “saying THANKS to a suggestion can even be used to DISSUADE the suggester from offering further suggestions!

        – “THANKS” is standard COURTESY to either a FRIEND or FOE, whether acceptable or not acceptable suggestions and in NO way confirms acceptance or rejection.

        What seems apparent to me in the email of Scoan is their interest in those behind Tbjoshuawatch, which is normal- but I suppose definitely not for the reasons the commenter suggested because the Scoan I know always puts things before God for HIS opinion before adopting, however nice the suggestion may seem in their favour- yet having someone concerned enough to give them a clue was appreciated and they looked into it by locating the said video- most likely Just to know their identity- they said NOTHING about publishing it to the world- as you insinuated so what’s the cause of all your apprehensiveness? They certainly also did no wrong in displaying proper courtesy to the commenter and appreciate her concern whether misguided or not.

        I must say here that tbjoshuawatch really seemed rather too apprehensive over this issue – why not wait a little longer for the said video to be released to know for certain that the suggestion was adopted so that you wouldn’t have to insinuate? – the making of this topic post seems you’re aghast and abashed by it – are you really afraid of such a video being published if it exists as the commenter said?

        You really have no reason to be apprehensive over this, since you claim their assertion on those behind tbjoshuawatch is incorrect, unless of course it is true.

        its a clear fact that mostimes in Scoan, when some people begin to manifest evil spirits and try to attack and fight TBJ, they usually after their deliverance deny of any such action- until the videos are shown to them- before they apologise and plead for forgiveness, that’s what the playbacks and openness of confessions there is meant to achieve – to convict people of sin and thus leading to repentance!

      • I think you’re missing the point of what the original article was saying. The original article says that it suspects that all of the correspondence originates from SCOAN, even the stuff from Jerry. The evidence they submit is that the comments all came from what they believe to be a SCOAN IP address (despite claiming to be from south africa) and other SCOAN insiders have previously posted under deceptive guises such as the SCOAN London guy who commented “We are a group of seminary students who came across this website while executing a search for ‘prophets of our days’.” I also know of a british disciple who regularly submits pro TBJ propaganda to african news sites under the guise of an african (Zambian I think) journalist. This kind of behaviour seems standard operating practise for SCOAN, so I don’t think TBJoshuawatch’s suspicions are very far fetched.

        Why would they do this? Simple – to try and scare the owners of the site. If they succeed maybe the site gets taken down, if they don’t (which they clearly haven’t) they have an alibi (it wasn’t us, we’ve never heard of Jerry!). If they were going to try blackmailing the site do you really think the email would come direct from SCOAN? Do you think they’re stupid enough to directly implicate themselves? Instead, they’ve made the threat very clear, but stopped short of showing it coming straight from them. Makes total sense to me.

        If you really don’t think this is from SCOAN, then I’m sure you won’t mind going on the record to condemn the suggestion Jerry makes.

      • SCOAN confirmed to Jerry that “the video you referred to has been located in the library”. You have said that this library consists of thousands and thousands of many other records.

      • @ Ian

        ~ In the comments sequel to this above I did address this issue of same IP which is the basis of your “suspicion”, and tbjoshuawatch did agree with me that it could be a shared computer, but stated that at least one of them is lying about their location because two of the communications received on this blog in an interval of weeks were from the same IP address, which to me doesent say much in itself because having understood the workings of the internet- its a clear Fact that what is fixed about a shared computer is the IP address and NOT the USER- we should be rational enough to remove from our minds, the assumption that jerry and Helen or radicalised and voiceout are one and the same person, It would have appealed better to reason if the communication received from these same IP’s were within hours of each other – but being a matter of several WEEKS like you yourself said, it becomes VERY unlikely that the user STILL is the same former person especially under a different name and writing style, because its most likely a shared computer, Which is a common feature of hotels some of which in the Lagos suburb have become very handy to the ministry in helping to accommodate visitors due to proximity and the time frame for visitors coming to and leaving Scoan is also a matter of WEEKS, during which any visitor could have used any of these shared computers- it therefore implies that Just as it is possible that they’re the same person its even MORE possible that they AREN’T.
        ~ And the bit about Jerry claiming to be a south African and having a Lagos based IP – its a Fact that Majority of people define their location by where they permanently reside and not by their transiting locations – she could really be in Lagos at the time, yet have travelled down from SA. Where she lodged in one of these hotels, used their internet service which must have been used in an earlier week by another visiting Scoan supporter, then Only to now have you tie both of them together and link it to Scoan.

        ~ The only issue I see here as madelaine rightly saw Is :
        does Scoan buy the suggestion?
        If you are really determined – you guys should have waited to see if the video would be released- which to me seems very unlikely – but then you would also have known the Scoan I know, for instance My uncle visited Scoan a while ago and slept in the same room with a man who openely confessed to being paid to lie against TBJ In various crusades that TBJ is in a cult alongside him, this man specifically according to my uncle mentioned the NAME of the pastors overseers of Mega ministries that PAID him to LIE against TBJ- but was asked by Scoan not to disclose them when he was making his confession openely- those conversant with Emmanuel tv would remember the dark plump man wearing a snakeskin top-and many other examples abound as well- what a ministry that protects even its enemies especially when they do not come out in the open! This is also an assurance to everyone of scoan’s strong suit for maintaining integrity, no matter what they confess there or what they’re confessed of, Just as katese rightly said “God does not consult our past or use it against us”! the basis of your “suspicion”, and tbjoshuawatch did agree with me that it could be a shared computer, but stated that at least one of them is lying about their location because two of the communications received on this blog in an interval of weeks were from the same IP address, which to me doesent say much in itself because having understood the workings of the internet- its a clear Fact that what is fixed about a shared computer is the IP address and NOT the USER- we should be rational enough to remove from our minds, the assumption that jerry and Helen or radicalised and voiceout are one and the same person, It would have appealed better to reason if the communication received from these same IP’s were within hours of each other – but being a matter of several WEEKS like you yourself said, it becomes VERY unlikely that the user STILL is the same former person especially under a different name and writing style, because its most likely a shared computer, Which is a common feature of hotels some of which in the Lagos suburb have become very handy to the ministry in helping to accommodate visitors due to proximity and the time frame for visitors coming to and leaving Scoan is also a matter of WEEKS, during which any visitor could have used any of these shared computers- it therefore implies that Just as it is possible that they’re the same person its even MORE possible that they AREN’T.
        ~ And the bit about Jerry claiming to be a south African and having a Lagos based IP – its a Fact that Majority of people define their location by where they permanently reside and not by their transiting locations – she could really be in Lagos at the time, yet have travelled down from SA. Where she lodged in one of these hotels, used their internet service which must have been used in an earlier week by another visiting Scoan supporter, then Only to now have you tie both of them together and link it to Scoan.

        ~ The only issue I see here as madelaine rightly saw Is :
        does Scoan buy the suggestion?
        If you are really determined – you guys should have waited to see if the video would be released- which to me seems very unlikely – but then you would also have known the Scoan I know, for instance My uncle visited Scoan a while ago and slept in the same room with a man who openely confessed to being paid to lie against TBJ In various crusades that TBJ is in a cult alongside him, this man specifically according to my uncle mentioned the NAME of the pastors overseers of Mega ministries that PAID him to LIE against TBJ- but was asked by Scoan not to disclose them when he was making his confession openely- those conversant with Emmanuel tv would remember the dark plump man wearing a snakeskin top-and many other examples abound as well- what a ministry that protects even its enemies especially when they do not come out in the open! This is also an assurance to everyone of scoan’s strong suit for maintaining integrity, no matter what they confess there or what they’re confessed of, Just as katese rightly said “God does not consult our past or use it against us”!

      • Please Soe, stick to the issues! TBJwatch has already answered you on the IP address thing, telling you that it only added to the suspicion that it came from SCOAN, a shared SCOAN computer. Nobody is claiming that all those people are exactly the same, but there is obviously something which links them, perhaps it’s that they use the same internet cafe, or maybe it’s that they live on the same compound (SCOAN).

        Anyway, you keep on implying that you’re not convinced that SCOAN are behind this, yet twice I have given you the opportunity to go on the record condemning this behaviour, but you won’t – even though you don’t think it’s SCOAN. Here’s how I think it is: You know full well that SCOAN engages in these kind of shady practises, and it makes you feel uncomfortable. Yet because of your loyalty to TB Joshua, and your belief that everything they do has been brought before God and given the “ok”, you can’t bring yourself to condemn the behaviour shown in the email from Jerry. I want to suggest to you that God has given you a conscience for a reason, and if the behaviour of this ministry is violating your conscience, maybe there’s something wrong going on.

        If I’m reading you totally wrong, then I ask you one final time – is the behaviour suggested by Jerry wrong? For the sake of argument we will assume Jerry has no direct connection to SCOAN, and the reply from them was not endorsing her suggestion. Until you can answer this question without going on about IP addresses or Beware of Blasphemers etc… I will respectfully bow out of this discussion.

      • @ Ian,

        Yes, you read me TOTALLY WRONG!

        ~ And thanks for now coming to the true technological reality- that no conclusion can be reached on the identity of individuals from their IP addresses alone. Also,
        ~ People irrespective of their ad hoc location usually refer to their permanent location during communucations.

        Hence, In direct answer to your question: is the behaviour suggested by Jerry wrong? ( true ) I do not endorse the suggestions of Jerry – a point I also made clear in an earlier response to you!

        ~ you also said: For the sake of argument we will assume Jerry has no direct connection to SCOAN, (AGREED)

        ~ you also said:… and the reply from them was not endorsing her suggestion (AGREED)

        Many people truly out of love for Scoan give suggestions – its now left for Scoan to reject or accept it. In either case they have to do it in Love- whether when accepting or rejecting.

      • Soe – from what you’ve said in previous posts, you have a connection with SCOAN. Why don’t you ask SCOAN to issue a statement to TBJoshuawatch disassociating itself from the comments made by Jerry. What is happening here is Jerry has made some comments and people are suspecting that Jerry is in fact someone within SCOAN. If I was within an organisation which people suspected was linked to the sort of comments that Jerry made, I would want to disassociate my organisation from those comments. That may be what you are trying to do, but you are not doing this as an official SCOAN spokesman – in fact I am unclear exactly what your connection is with SCOAN – are you a disciple, a prophet or a visitor?

        Whatever your role, SCOAN needs to make a public statement that confirms the Lagos IP address used by Radicalised and Jerry is NOT a SCOAN computer and also confirms that the ex-disciple’s video confession will be destroyed rather than made public, together with the confessions of any other former disciples. It also needs to publicly condemn the comments made by Jerry. If SCOAN is a reputable organisation it should have no problem in doing these things.

      • @ Claire,

        Is that all you’re asking for? I think Its kind of too little – you should as well ask for Scoan to stop all its other activities and ask tbj to perhaps go into the farming profession along with the wisemen, I think you would be more comfortable with that, you know very well that Scoan has never commented on this site talk more of making any promises to you because the Scoan I know doesn’t answer critics- but deals with both friends and foes in love. i’ve addressed the issue of the purpose of those videos in my previous comments above as well as my identity on a set of comments on this site – I think you should try reading them before responding to avoid unnecessary repetition which I wouldn’t want to go into regarding the purpose of their archives. Scoan does as God instructs and you have no reason to be apprehensive because God is Love.

      • “Scoan does as God instructs and you have no reason to be apprehensive because God is Love.” Thanks Soe. This says everything we need to know about where you’re coming from. TB Joshua is infallible, and his church is infallible. Nothing they do is wrong.

      • @ tbjoshuawatch,

        I said “Scoan does as God instructs” as a church should do – I never said the church is infallible, even if you claim I said the prophet is infallible are you also saying I believe that every single worker there is infallible? is the church made up of only the prophet? Its also made up of sincere people working there daily who can make mistakes from time. So saying they do as God instructs does not mean that there’s no room for mistakes- its true Moses, elijah and others were always under the check and conduct of the spirit but they also made mistakes , yet today we hold them in high esteem as heroes of faith. Today people still say: the “God of Moses” – undermining even the fact that he provoked God by not being careful enough to honour God at the waters of meribah – that mistake did not destroy his calling – so to put things in perspective, my question to you guys behind tbjoshuawatch is this:

        Do you see tbjoshua as a man of God ONLY making mistakes in ministry or NOT AT ALL a man of God?

      • Soe, that statement would have been far more innocent if it weren’t for all the previous comments you’ve made. You’ve made it perfectly clear numerous times that everything TB Joshua does is the perfect will of God, and every word he speaks is the word of God. It’s telling how in this comment you only dispute having said the church is infallible, not TB Joshua.

      • I like the idea of this man becoming a Farmer, maybe God will call him to a end his days living a contemplative life.

    • So Soe – how do you propose that Jerry (who supposedly has no connection to SCOAN) knows the exact date of an event that happened over 10 years ago? Can you remember exactly what happened to you on that day? It is a bit farcical, don’t you think?

      • Trying to work out what soe is trying to say is like listening to david cameron and nick clegg arguing over NHS reforms.
        Still no answer to my last questions down below, huh?

  17. Doi, when you say he who curses Gods servants curses God, does that mean that if you e.g. say anything against me, then you are also cursing God? Are not all true christians servants of God?

  18. Hey! Someone somewhere.
    May i quote the bible verse for you?
    “he that heareth you heareth me.and he that dispiseth you dispiseth me.and he that dispiseth me dispiseth the one who sent me.”
    what you still don’t believe is that if you are really for God.if you’re hurt then God is hurt.he that curse you curses God.and whats that called “BLASPHEMY”.Try to also get the understanding of the scripture.

    @Madelaine.
    It may look like its not love, but its love.and love to the the million of people out there who are sitting on the fence.who do not know if the accusations are true or false.

    • Doi, can you please take that verse to any theologian in the world (not part of SCOAN) and they will be able to tell you that your interpretation is incorrect. This sort of thinking will attempt you to believe the lie that you are on equal footing with God and is from the pit of hell. The first sin was committed by Adam and Eve who believed this lie; that they could be like God (Gen 3:5). Secondly this interpretation does not fall far from the Benny Hinn heretical ‘little gods’ theology – which has been exposed by many theologians.

      http://www.cephasministry.com/benny_hinn.html

      You can only blaspheme against God… not man.

    • “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.”
      1 Corinthians Ch 13 v4-5

      How do the actions described in this post meet that description?

      It chills me Doi that you can say that this behaviour is love. Is it that you are familiar with this type of communication that uses words clearly aimed to generate fear and you have been told that it is love? There is a more wholesome experience of love that is freely available to you from Jesus.

  19. Had a thought – if this is not blackmail (which it is) it is at the very least intimidation – which equates to bullying.

  20. Had another thought… SCOAN & TBJ are like most bullies – very insecure inside and hiding behind all sorts of excuses for why they can do what they do. It seems like TBJ is the master bully who will steal your backpack, read your diary and tell you that unless you give him your lunch money for the next 10 years he will put posters up all over school containing your diary excerpts… probably printed out of context, but making sure he imposes maximum embarrassment. Very weak and insecure. Behind this facade of a man who can apparently cure any disease and predict the future (not convinced) is just a scared little playground bully. What a farce?!

    He should man up!

  21. So according to you doi, those who speak against me are blaspheming. I may not have a super church or my own tv channel, but but i have been telling the guy i work with about Jesus, and he’s all ears. Christians all over the world do this, including the ex disciple the threat was made to. I know cos i keep in regular contact. If you speak against us, does that make you a blasphemer?

    I dont think you or soe realise how you are sounding.

  22. Someone somewhere – dead right, Jerry’s comments are out and out bullying. I think anyone sitting outside SCOAN seeing Jerry’s comments without SCOAN distancing itself from them will question why SCOAN is happy to be associated with such comments. And the fact that other confession videos have been published will make most rational adults very concerned about the organisation that permits this to happen in its name.

    And in terms of the interpretation of blasphemy – in a previous set of comments Soe accused me of lying about Anna’s death. By his and Doi’s interpretation of blasphemy, that makes him a blasphemer as he accused me, a servant of God, of lying. Do I believe Soe is a blasphemer? No! In accusing me of lying he was not being disrepectful to God, just disrepectful to me – but I’ll get over it!

    • +1

      Sorry about your friend. This whole business is just awful. I can’t imagine what these poor people must be going through. You don’t have to be a Christian to know that the behaviour SCOAN is exhibiting is just plain wrong.

    • @ Madelaine, someone and Giles,

      As for the definition and interpretation of blasphemy:

      I think we’re only saying just about the same thing here-but only appear to be on an unequal footing- I couldn’t agree more with what is obviously crystal clear- that we cannot blaspheme against man, but only against God and His works- with the latter being how I remember defining blasphemy in a set of comments on this site: Just as in Matt 12:24-31, Jesus explained that the pharisees blasphemed against the Holyspirit when they talked about Him casting out devils by beelzebub.

      The Merriam Webster dictionary defines blasphemy apart from claiming the attributes of deity, as IRREVERENCE toward something considered SACRED or inviolable and also: as an act of GREAT DISRESPECT shown to God or to sacred ideas, PEOPLE, or things. – The vulgar, defaming, savage, debasaing and impious allegations bisola made on TBJ fits perfectly into this definition, as such it is also in this vein very correct to be termed and tagged as blasphemy.

      • Jesus explained that the pharisees blasphemed against the Holyspirit when they talked about Him casting out devils by beelzebub.

        Jesus is God!

        The vulgar, defaming, savage, debasaing and impious allegations bisola made on TBJ fits perfectly into this definition, as such it is also in this vein very correct to be termed and tagged as blasphemy.

        Unless A) TB Joshua is not sacred, or B) The allegations are true. Please don’t forget, TB Joshua never denied the allegations, he’s not even denied cheating on his wife when asked it as a direct question.

      • Soe – you say that people can blaspheme against people so people who make allegations against TBJ are blasphemers.

        ‘The Merriam Webster dictionary defines blasphemy apart from claiming the attributes of deity, as IRREVERENCE toward something considered SACRED or inviolable and also: as an act of GREAT DISRESPECT shown to God or to sacred ideas, PEOPLE, or things. – The vulgar, defaming, savage, debasaing and impious allegations bisola made on TBJ fits perfectly into this definition, as such it is also in this vein very correct to be termed and tagged as blasphemy’

        So are you a blasphemer for accusing me of lying about Anna? I don’t think so – defamation is not blasphemy. I would also query your use of the word of ‘impious’ in terms of the allegations Bisola made against TBJ, for the allegations to be impious would suggest that TBJ was in someway sacred. I get the feeling sometimes you forget that TBJ is a man not a god.

  23. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman who had been caught in adultery….Jesus said “If any of you is without sin, let him be the first one to throw a stone at her”…..”Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
    “No one sir,” she said.
    “Then neither do I condemn you” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

    “Come, let us reason together” says the Lord. “Though your sins are as scarlet, they shall be white as snow. Though they are crimson, they shall be as wool.”

    When a woman who had been living a sinful life heard that Jesus was eating at the Pharisees house, she took an alabaster jar….
    …when the Pharisee who had invited Jesus saw this, he said to himself “Surely he would know what kind of a woman she is- that she is a sinner…”
    Jesus answered him, “Simon, I have something to say to you….”
    ….”Therefore I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven”
    ———————————————————————–

    The lady I am looking at confessed the life she was living. If she is the one that holds this site called TB Joshua Watch, I think she must have forgotten those nasty things. There is nothing she did not confess…. T.B. Joshua, go to your library on April 11, 2001 and bring out the confession of this lady and let people know the person she is… I know The SCOAN is good at keeping records

  24. Soe and doe. If jerry is supposed to be a visitor, how come he knew the exact date of this confession made ten years ago?

    Also, after reading your thoughts on blasphemy, does that mean that you are blaspheming if eg you call me a liar? I think this is the third time i have asked this.

    • @ Giles,

      Sorry if your question seemed ignored, and thanks for drawing my attn. back to it.

      - its perfectly normal for people to vividly recall the happenings on their special days and occasions, however long ago they may be, such as their wedding days, birthdays, anniversaries and the likes, to even help with the memory, some keep diaries, even of catchy experiences during church services like my dad used to until early 2000 – it all depends on what a particular day means to you- this was a day someone apparently visited Scoan many years ago that marked a turning point in her life for the better – being a day that was of such great importance to her there’s hardly a chance she’d forget the happenings during that service, and even harder to forget would be a confession that day she learn’t valuable life lessons from – so it doesen’t at all seem far fetched to Me.

      And the bit about if a lie is blasphemy- well you couldn’t call just lying blasphemy, what really makes a lie blasphemous is if such lies are debasingly impious and amount to a gross defamation of a hard earned integrity according to the dictionary definition above, or if such lies amount to discrediting the Holyspirit of a miracle, to ascribe it to other gods when indeed the source is God Almighty Himself such as the pharisees did regarding Jesus miracles.

      • That’s really sad. You are speculating that on a specific day this woman experienced a turning point in her life “for the better” and then 10 years later she can remember “nasty” things that were said and can suggest that these be used against someone who has already been forgiven for the things she confessed. It would seem to indicate that whatever happened to cause her to remember that day did not lead her into a life full of grace and forgiveness.

      • That would be a mighty big co-incidence, no?! That Jerry happened to visit SCOAN ten years ago, heard a certain confession and then- stumbling upon this site – knew instantly that the confession she heard was from the person behind this site. Or the person that SCOAN thinks is behind this site…

        The language used in the quote also sounds more like a black African speaking than a white South African. Sorry if that sounds prejudiced but I know plenty of both and the patterns used just aren’t those of a white South African. Again at the risk of sounding prejudiced but black Africans tend to use a pattern of over-emphasis and using more words than perhaps an white English person would e.g. “The lady I am looking at confessed the life she was living”. I might be wrong, just my feeling as a Linguistics grad who lives in a very black African area of S London…..!

  25. I haven’t read all the other comments but something about this post makes me happy. You know they say that if you’re under spiritual attack, it means you’re dong something right. Well, tbjwatch is under attack from SCOAN cause you’re obviously revealing deep truths that SCOAN have worked hard to keep hidden.

    At the same time, I really feel for the ex-disciple who is being threatened in this way because being blackmailed is not a nice thing at all. But it must mean you’re really getting to them. And it’s this kind of bullying behaviour that TBJ followers will find increasingly difficult to defend, which means that eventually even they will see the truth.

    Soe, let me state this clearly once and for all. A loving God would not use our past sins against us, when we have confessed them and been forgiven for them. It’s the very heart of the gospel. Anyone claiming to act in Jesus’ name but failing to show the love of God is NOT of God. Whatever else you add on to the central message of christianity, you cannot deny God’s grace and forgiveness.

    Is SCOAN showing grace and forgiveness here?

  26. Hi soe thanks for the diary explantion. I think thats a bit far fetched but lets say you are correct. Some visitor ten years ago meticulously recorded each detail of their visit, including Emmas confession.
    That still does not explain how he knows who Emma really is. How does he make the link between that disciple and “Emma”?
    Many disciples have left in ten years. How does jerry know which one is Emma?

  27. If there are films in SCOAN archives with sins confessions of people that were disciples all those films should be destroyed because our sins are covered by Blood of the Lord. What is the purpose of keeping them?

    • I can’t even see reason for creating them in the first place, but yes – they should certainly be destroyed now. I can’t think of a single reason for keeping them except as blackmail material as the post above shows. This it one of the more obvious reasons why I don’t think it’s even worth visiting SCOAN out of curiosity. It’s just not an organisation you would want to get involved with in any way.

    • gretta, look up “beware of blasphemers” on youtube. Bisola Johnson was also a senior disciple who was there many years. when she left, the church made a public display of all her sins because she also accused TB Joshua of sexually abusing her. See see the video for yourself. “Beware of Blasphemers”

      • Hi Giles,

        According “Beware of Blasphemes” on youtube. Do you really belive that Bisola Johnson has been impeled to do “fellatio” by TB Joshua?

        This is a big accusation?

        We can not to prove it, if we do not have clear proof.

        What if Bisola Johnson went to the extremity and is not speaking the truth to the end and added some delusions?

        Did she receive a psychological help after leaving Lagos?

        it is needed to examine her state of mind now by psychiatrist.

        It is normal procedure in helping people that has a cult personality disorder.

        I think a good mind person should be very carefull to receive such accustaion.

        It is just point of view from person that is outside of this heavy films mess fighting.

      • hi gretta.
        yes it is a serious accusation. i believe it because

        1. tb joshua does not sleep with his wife. she has her apartment and he has his. so there is opportunity.
        2. three other disciples have left saying the same thing. two south africans and one english.
        3. none of them gained anything in saying these things. they just gave their reason, and left. one of them was married to another disciple and they were both pastors of the uk scoan. for saying such a thing about tb joshua, they lost everything.
        4. when asked directly if he has cheated on his wife, he
        never gave a straight answer.
        5. i have seen him hit women, which is something i admit i lied about in order to defend TB Joshua. There are other disciples who are far more fanatical about tbj. i have no doubts they also lie to protect him.

        as with bisola, i dont know what sipport nigeria offers to victims of rape or cults.

      • Hello Gretta
        I have just watched the Video “Beware of the Blasphemers” Part 1 and it says
        That they will use “actual footage from the SCOAN Archives”
        I think that is proof that there are films in the SCOAN Archives that are used.
        And I completely agree with that our sins are covered by the Blood of Jesus.

        Regarding the accusation that has been made by Bisola Johnson. You are also right that this is a big accusation. I have heard first hand accounts from two other people describing similar experiences. There were good reasons for me to believe these people. The issue that it is big just makes it all the more shocking. I do believe the accusation but just for the sake of argument if it was actually an extreme account how much difference does that make? Even part of what has been described is enough to throw up my hands in horror and be concerned for anyone who had that experience.

        You mention “normal procedure for helping people that have a cult personality disorder.” I do not think that “cult personality disorder” is documented in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. I fully recognise that where someone has been part of an Extreme Religious Organisation or Cult and experienced the kind of mind control techniques that are used then they will need support and help when they leave. I think that it is more likely that the experiences that they have had leave them with some psychiatric problems for which compassionate and loving support will be required, than psychiatric problems cause them to exaggerate the experiences they have had.
        I can guarantee that for the members of my family who are within SCOAN love and support will be offered from many friends and family. I know that it was a passion for Jesus that lead them to be part of SCOAN and I pray that they will begin to realise that the Jesus who forgives their sins, the Jesus who died for them would not keep archives of their confessions to be used against them.
        We will all face judgement from God who does know everything that we have ever done, but that is very very different from what the man leading SCOAN is doing with these confessions.

  28. Hi Madelaine,

    Yes it is strange, I noticed when TB Joshua used to say: “learn to forgive, and never mention past sins to your wife”, while he is ministering to people on the SCOAN platform. But from another site he keeps record of sins confession of his desciples used in the defence films. It is is not Christian testimony for sure in this matter. What is coverd by the Blood of Jesus it is covered. It is some kind of weakness keeping confessions. He wants to keep record of himself for future generation but he goes beyond biblical baundaries in this case. Archives, Archives, Archives. He likes TV and Cameras for sure. Better is to keep record in Heaven than on eart. Even in his office there are TV sets. I know nearly everything is recorded in SCOAN, even first steps of visitors etc. In his sermons he says that he waches TV, maches and so on. What for? We should focus on Jesus

    So you have family involved with SCOAN, that is interesting.

  29. Do you know how judges will judge such sexual accusation ?

    There is a rule of civil law that says: if we do not have visual proof we should consider that that defendant is not guilty.

    For me without visual proof it is dangerous to think that TBJ commited such thing like sexual abuse.

    Giles, you already said: that you belive, but look your beliving is based not on real facts but on some presuppositions. Do not you think?

    Maybe you have some kind of pity to TBJ ?

    But anyway you can belive in what you want, but in accusation beliving does not work at all, You have to have visual proof. Words are not enough. I studied civil law.

    Such judgment or sentence in face of civil law that is only based on words of people is biased.

    We do not need Bible here to say such thing.

    From other site:

    The things that we see during SCOAN service in Bible pont of view says that he has to be fair in his spirit.

    So Jesus called them and spoke to them in parables: “How can Satan drive out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. Mar. 3.23-24

      • Not words because words are not enough.

        Not having reliable, honest, solid, decent, visual proofs is is virtual game playing by accuser.

        Every accuser neeeds defender. If accuser can not proofe accusation of the accused, the accuser looses.

        Do not ask me, please.

        Ask yourself and bring more raliable proofs.

        Because words are not enough. In court Giles, you will loose with what you already has presented on this blog. Your proofs are weak, very weak.

        The court has to be independent. So I am not on anyone side here.

        I am jut looking.

        You put yourself in a role of accuser. Do you know that It is dagereous for you?

        Trust me because I am a lawer.

      • Hi Gretta

        You are quite new to this site, so you probably haven’t read a post someone contributed which addressed a lot of the points you are making (which are good and valid points). It would be worth you reading that post and maybe commenting on it if you have any thoughts. What makes this case so much more complicated than usual is the level of control TB Joshua exerts on his followers. This creates a situation where if someone was abused A) they probably wouldn’t say anything because they believe TB Joshua is a perfect man of God, so it can’t be him in the wrong, and B) Even if they wanted to say something, they’re living on a compound full of people 100% loyal to TB Joshua. How could they possibly claim something like this? Anyway, I’m going off the subject myself here – this is the post, see what you think and perhaps continue the discussion there. http://tbjoshuawatch.wordpress.com/2011/07/28/abuse-accusations-against-tb-joshua-how-can-they-be-verified/#comment-923

    • hi gretta
      i guess its the same with all rapes- one persons word against another. so no, there is no 100% proof because no camera was filming it or anything. if iam to be completely unbiased, lack of proof does not mean he is guilty, or innocent either.
      interestingly, the judge presiding over the recent amanda knox trial noted that they may well have done it. there just wasnt any evidence.just like there isnt any evidence with tb joshua. amanfa knox may or may not have killed that girl. only they will really know.tb joshua may or may not have raped those four women. only they will know.
      until then, you are absoluteky right. it will be a question mark for us all.

      but would you leave your teenage daughter in the care of a pastor who other women had claimed raped them? No proof though….

    • The accounts from people that I have spoken to, are where uncharacteristic sexual behaviour has been expected of them from TBJoshua who was in a position of power and mentorship over them. This is an abuse of trust and an abuse of the position that he claims to hold from God. The people who are in a free enough place to speak of their experience left SCOAN at great personal cost which is quite compelling evidence in itself. I could make an assumption that there are other people who have experienced the same abuse of trust. However that would be speculation. I will however pray that if there are others who have had the same experience, they are able to find a place where they are safe from further harm and they find healing in Jesus. There can be long term emotional and psychological effects of being put in a position where someone is expected to do something that they know to be wrong but they are told by a person who is in a position of power that it is the right thing to do.
      This is not “physical” evidence it is deep within the lives of the people concerned and affects them and family and friends around them.

  30. Pingback: TB Joshua and SCOAN – a beginners guide « TB Joshua Watch

  31. “You said something about embarrassing people by making their confessions public! I’m Sorry to burst your bubble there, but I choose to see it as a weapon against Satan rather than an embarrassment , everyone knows that confessions going public is something that cannot be avoided anymore at Scoan”

    If you claim to fight Satan using Satan’s tactics, you are also on Satan’s side. I’m sorry to ask this but do you read the Bible?

    Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

    Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

    I don’t want to post more scriptures because it is pointless. God bless you.

  32. Pingback: Why do critics of SCOAN want to remain anonymous? « TB Joshua Watch

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  34. Ermmm Unpardonable sin……Umm that is IF what T.B. Joshua does IS from the Holy Spirit.

    Soe, can you prove that the miracles he does are from the Holy Spirit and stamped by Jesus Christ as totally genuine ? 100%

    i.e. Many of the different Bible Dictionaries describe blasphemy as “insulting, cursing, lacking reverence for God, claiming deity.”

    Thank you, I don’t see any relevance about discerning “miracles” of a man that is seen by others as a “god” as blasphemy.

    And….Many Bible scholars believe that this unpardonable sin cannot be committed today. They believe this sin could have only been committed back at the time when Jesus was walking on our earth. In other words, you would have to attack Jesus direct just like the Scribes and Pharisees did to be found guilty of this sin.

    Since T.B. Joshua is NOT Jesus, does this make sense, when we are discerning what is from the Holy Spirit and what is not, Soe ? Or are you still thinking every man who is sinful is therefore unpardonable because every so called “man of God” is sinless ? Hmmm.

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