How to defend TB Joshua

Since we started this site back in January, we have had a lot of responses from readers. It is clear that we have made a lot of people angry.

“NEVER EVER SHOW YOUR FINGER TO THE SERVANT OF GOD!”

“All this is nonsense!”

“This site is the work of the enemy!”

“You make me sick!”

People are upset. But how have these people defended TB Joshua from the allegations he faces? Interestingly, all the critical comments and emails we have received have made almost identical points. Here are the main themes:

1) TB Joshua is a true man of God! Men of God always face false accusations! (we dealt with this argument in this post)

2) You should not judge, only God can judge! (we cannot judge, but is it not right to question?)

4) Why do you only see the bad side? (If the bad side is exploitation of desperate people and years of sexual abuse, how can we justify staying silent?)

5) If he’s not a man of God, how do you explain the miracles? (we addressed this in this post)

The problem with these responses is that none of them address any of our concerns about TB Joshua. There are many serious and damning allegations of sexual abuse and systematic deception, from many different sources. We are still waiting for a response that addresses them and provides information showing another side to the story. We are ready for reasoned debate but so far, defense of TB Joshua has been limited to name-calling and smearing of ex-disciples who have spoken out.

How has TB Joshua defended himself?

In absence of convincing arguments from his supporters, it is useful to see how TB Joshua and SCOAN have responded to sex abuse allegations. Again, the substance of the allegations have never been addressed; SCOAN simply accuses critics of being blasphemers and liars and TB Joshua has never released any statement denying the allegations. His policy has been to refuse to even acknowledge them. In this interview, TB Joshua refuses to deny cheating on his wife:

As a man of God, can you look God in the face and admit you have not cheated on your wife?

TB Joshua: Let me tell you one thing about the situation. What is happening, you are seeing the level of understanding and the obedience in union between me and my wife.

But don’t you face temptation from women, a handsome man like you?

TB Joshua: Like I have said, if you are not tempted with money and you are not tempted with woman, and you are not tempted with pride…I want to tell you that God Almighty has been manifesting His strength in my weakness. For when I am weak, then I am strong. Thank you.

This stance leaves his supporters in a difficult position: how can you defend a man against allegations that he himself refuses to deny?

How can you credibly defend TB Joshua?

If you are a follower of TB Joshua, or a supporter of SCOAN/Emmanuel TV and are thinking of responding to this site, here are some questions to consider in your response. We would like to hear your feedback.

1) Do you believe that TB Joshua is perfect? Or to put it another way, is he capable of sinning? If your answer is “Yes, he is perfect”, you might like to look up 1 John 1:8: “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us”. However, if you believe he is human, it follows that the allegations could be true. While we cannot be the judge of this, we know that the allegations are numerous and go back many years, and that SCOAN routinely tries to silence them. This is why we believe they deserve to have a voice.

2) How is TB Joshua held accountable? To say he is accountable to Jesus is not enough. Every minister should be accountable to someone, either through a team of churches, a denomination, a mentor or a leadership team. This is something clearly modelled throughout scripture.

3) What measures does TB Joshua have in place to avoid sexual temptation? Most ministers keep to certain rules regarding meeting with people of the opposite sex, for example a male minister may only counsel a female congregant when a husband/relative is present. These protocols help protect the minister from temptation, and also from false accusation. As far as we can tell, from both pro-SCOAN and anti-SCOAN sources, TB Joshua does not have any such measures in place.

4) How are SCOAN’s finances independently audited? SCOAN and Emmanuel TV make massive sums of money. There is great scope for corruption and financial irregularities.

5) How does SCOAN ensure that all AIDS victims they pronounce healed really are? Evidence suggests they leave this to the victim. In fact, the responsibility lies with the person claiming them healed.

We would be happy to give a platform to anyone answering these questions or giving constructive and specific reponses to the allegations. If you don’t know the answers to these questions, then ask representatives of SCOAN and observe their reaction. The truth can withstand scrutiny; only deceivers fear the truth and discourage questioning. If you are a financial supporter of SCOAN or Emmanuel TV, you may consider suspending your support until you have satisfactory answers to these important questions.

98 thoughts on “How to defend TB Joshua

  1. Hi there, I would say that I’m a supporter of SCOAN in some way. I do agree in that it’s not a perfect ministry. The reason I’m still a supporter is that – I can’t find another ministry like this on earth.

    Many other great ministries has their flaws too. I won’t mention names though… but I think it’s clear. I know there’s serious allegations, I won’t be standing and say it’s false or anything but I leave it too God and pray for those that were allegedly abused.

    I have a question though… You mention many things about the ministry, but not so much prophecy? I mean you can’t really see anything wrong with that can you?

    What about the wise men? are they the same as the TB Joshua you think he is? They do most things exactly the same (strange that there’s a message to say you shouldn’t be a copy of man) but there’s result in what they do. Is it occult? some of them will start their own ministries soon…

    I hope you answer this one…
    Jens…

  2. Hi Jens
    You may have read some of my posts on this site (I was one of the ex dicsiples who left)

    In reply to your queries about the prophecy, I think its a mixture of divination (occult) and basic trickery. The trickery is pretty straight forward. When you email SCOAN to ask to visit, they reply asking some questions about you – What problems you have. So well before you set foot in the country they have built up a fairly good picture of you. The ministry learns more about a visitor through the visitor co-ordinators. Whether this information is passed onto TB Joshua or not would be speculation, and I want to stick to what I know: the visitor co-ordinators do talk among themselves about individual guests, so they get to know them enough to “compare notes”.
    When I first visited SCOAN in 2003, I went with two other friends. Myself and the second guy made no secret what our prayer requests and personal problems were in our emails and in general chit chat with the visitor co-ordinators. The third guy deliberately stayed quiet.
    So in the prayer line, TBJ was spot on about my problem, and the second guy…but he walked right past the third guy without saying a word.

    Why I think the there is an element of divination in it, and not prophecy, is that none of his “world events” prophecies actually achieve any purpose except promote TB Joshua. I mean, he prophecies a famous young lady will die…6 months later Brittney Murphey dies. He prophecies a plane crash…then a plane comes down in Buffalo. Then he foretells something will happen with something to do with the word “Hood”….and that American soldier at Fort Hood goes and brasses up the place.

    It makes viewers marvel about TB Joshua, but where does Jesus fit into all this? Whats the purpose? This is divination- the occultic practise of glimpsing into the future – but its hidden by a big propaganda machine selling it as biblical prophecy.

    Oh, and in answer to the “wise men” question – the way it was explained to me when I was there is that they are like the 12 disciples BEFORE they were baptised in Acts, just like they had a degree of power to cast out demons, heal sick, etc but were not baptised; so too do the “wise men” have a degree of power. And TB Joshua, being baptised with the Holy Spirit would be the same annointing level as Jesus.
    The wise men would all therefore all be waiting to be baptised in the Holy Spirit like TBJ.

    I do not believe all of them are “in on it”, because quite a few have left.

    The main question you should ask directly is Does TB Joshua Sin? Get a direct yes/no answer. None of this quotable-quote stuff.

    • Dear One Of The Images Of God
      You will never understand the sadness l feel towards your negative attitude towards the Man of God,Prophet T.B. Joshua. If you really were a Christian,you would understand that through the prophecies and miracles that the Man of God perform, All Glory is duelly given to Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and to God Almighty. Lam sorry to say that you allow and allowed the devil to use you to blasphemy about the Man Of God. L feel that DEEP down your heart you know that what you are saying about the Man of God is absolutely wrong.
      Please, let us who believe in God accept that He is truelly a Man of God, because He really is !!!!!! We are testing Him on our own as Christians to see if He is really A TRUE Man of God, and l for one, l have not yet seen any signs of Him being connected to the Devil!!!!! Do you really believe that satan’s agent can be busy revealing the evil that satan is doing to the people of God? This then may mean that the devil’s kingdom of darkness is divided among itself!!!!!! T.B.Joshua is in the Kingdom of Light,Jesus Christ’s Kingdom ,that is why He is mightily being used by the Holy Spirit to expose the evil work of Satan..The problem with some of the self-proclaimed christians is that they are busy tring to remove the “sticks” that are in other Christians’ eyes, but forgetting to first remove the big ” logs” in their own eyes.

      • Welcome to the discussion silbazisomoyo. Quick question for you: What do you think 2 Cor 11:14 is talking about when it says “it is not surprising if his (satan’s) servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness”? Just because someone looks like a man of God, doesn’t mean they are. This site is doing a really good job of looking at the other side of TB Joshua to what gets portrayed through his media team. There is a lot more to him than meets the eye, that much is for sure!

      • You feel that deep down in my heart i know that i am wrong about tb joshua? What is with you ppl and putting words in my mouth?
        I know exactly what i think of him. He’s a fraud, a phoney who promotes himself on the TB Joshua Show, which is privately owned- by him. Seriously, what do you think you will see on that show?

  3. PS, I forgot to mention the trickery method has been exposed before with other famous “prophets” who were fed information via an earpiece, read by members of the ministry, who were in turn reading the prayer request/”contact details” of the congregation.

    If you do visit, make sure you limit the info you give them and see what happens

  4. Hi Giles

    Thanks for the response. Yes, I have read about your other posts and I agree with most of the things you mentioned.

    I’m sorry to say though that I’m still not really convinced about prophecy. I mean, many of the prophecies people don’t even remember what tbj is talking about only after he says a few things more to make it more clear.

    Like a friend of mine that went to visit. He had a prophecy given to him that he slapped a snake. He didn’t know what TBJ was talking about… and TBJ then told him that there was a lady in his past that he dated, and he hit her with his right hand, after that he lived a life of torment, until after the prophecy. He is still doing very well now and is more blessed in every area of his life.

    Many of the prophecies are also things people won’t mention to anyone.

    You have a point with the world prophecies… but when Micheal Jackson died… he called to ask for MJ to come to the church… that makes it seem genuine? or could it be only seeing into the future?

    The 5 “wise men” I talked about is not the junior prophets/pastors. I heard that they have been baptized in water and Holy Spirit. TBJ has said that they are no longer being sent by him (as the 12 disciples of Jesus you mentioned) but now sent by God. I don’t completely agree with that though because they still under TBJ’s instruction for now. But they prophesy the same way TBJ does it. Are they now trusted with ear pieces then?

    I know that TBJ is not infallible. I don’t agree with some of the things he does. But I still believe he is from God.

  5. From my knowledge of SCOAN (I’ve been in a church strongly influenced by TBJ, and know many people who are or have been disciples there), you’d be surprised at the kind of things people do admit to them. The teaching seems to be that unconfessed sins are a blockage to receiving the blessing of God, and that sins have to be confessed publicly (which in SCOAN means in front of their camera). Because people don’t want to miss out on the blessing of God, there is a pressure there to confess everything, even their deepest, darkest sins. That said, even if he does genuinely tell people things supernaturally, that doesn’t in itself make him a man of God, the bible has numerous examples of sorcery and divination which are not from God.

  6. hi jenson, yeah you got a point there about MJ. to be fair here, he did say he tried to warn michael jackson. That stands out as the one time where I could see some purpose in telling the future.

    You also have a point in regards to prophecies, about ppl confessing stuff that they would never admit to, and also in the case of your friend. Despite what I said in my previous comment about the possibility of being fed info, I can also recall other times when he said similar things to people that they either would never have confessed or could not have known (for instance, he told some visitor their dream the previous night). Thats why I concluded it to be a mixture of supernatural power in some cases, and a little help with information forms in others.

    However, I hesitate to attribute the ability to foretell the future and disclose dirty secrets about someone as a sign they’re from God Fortune tellers can do those things too: Divination.

    Its good that things with your friend are ok, but again, I wouldn’t say the prosperity is cos of TBJ. When I was in Afghan, all the SCOAN ppl were telling me “Daddy is praying for you”, and when I came back in one piece, obviously its cos Daddy was praying for me, etc.
    Again, this is where I get uncomfortable. Its Jesus who I pray to, Jesus who I believe in and call out to help – whether I am loyal to TBJ or not. I mean, I’m now a “blasphemer”, but I’m also doing well in my life (obviously with ups and downs). I’d put that down to Jesus’ input, not TB Joshua.
    In the same way, wouldn’t you say the same about your friend?

    • Your argurments seem to indicate some bitterness towards TB Joshua, tantamount to personal battle with the man. People dont worship TB Joshua they receive his guidance. He never claims glory for what he does but leaves it to God. All the other claims, sexual and financial as far as I am concerned you know they are good subjects that will attract people to your forum hence your choice of topic.
      The devil is doing a pretty good job. While Tb Joshua is concerned about bringing people to God your mission is to place as much doubt as possible and I should say you are doing a damn good job.

  7. Hi Giles,
    Just a response to your point about prophecies. I have been following Emmanuel TV for a while and also had the chance to go to Lagos myself. The majority of the personal prophecies given on Sundays and Mondays are not actually given to the international visitors who fill a questionnaire with their information, but to those who are attending the church for the first time, the large majority of whom, haven;t contacted the church to tell them they are coming. The five wise men move around picking people out to prophesy to them, and we are talking about hundreds of people receiving prophecies among the thousands that attend. I don’t really see a way of getting the personal information about each person to the wise men or tBJ beforehand when they were not even aware that the people were coming. Aside from that, even if you were to use your argument that Tb Joshua gets information about the people from the questionnaire and those who are taking care of the visitors, just watch one service and you will see that most of the prophecies refer to things totally alien to the info asked for in the questionnaires. To reply to the points raised about the possibility of sorcery and divination involved, do you think it could be feasibly possible to get info about so many hundreds of people at the same time? And we have to also look at the result of the prophecy/ divination/ sorcery. If people came out of it confused, depressed, etc. i would agree that it could be from the devil. Yet, people get delivered after receiving the prophecy and then thousands give testimonies of how their lives have changed as a result of the deliverance. I think that on this site, as well as examining the claims of those offended/ hurt by the ministry, testimonies of healings, deliverances and prophecies should also be looked at. For sure, one by far outnumbers the other.

  8. Hi Radicalised

    Thanks for your reply. To answer about the “trickery ” side, yes I agree with you – it might be a little difficult to memorise all those people at random (I mentioned it as a possiblity).
    However, as for the wisemen also practising divination, no I dont think large numbers of people would be a problem. You can see claire voyance channels on TV where large numbers of people are involved as well. Youtube street magicians like Chris Angel, he also tells alot of people about their lives as well as all his tricks. So just because TBJ and the wisemen are doing this as well, doesnt necessarily make it from God. In fact, if you put Chris Angel in a church setting and called it “words of knowledge”, then Im afraid the only way you would know if he is from God or not is by looking closely at his character over a period of time.
    All my main doubts about TB Joshua hinge upon his character I observed when I was living there, together with his “fruits” – the disciples. They love him, but they definately dont love each other.
    I was a little surprised at your point though – how come you rule out divination just because 5 others are doing it on a large scale? If you think its far-fetched that I’m accusing them of divination, then its not very different from what the wisemen themselvs said about one of their own who went rogue and began talking about sexual allegations: they said this wisewoman suddenly has become demon possessed. (their explanation had the same effect on me as my explanation is prolly having on you at the moment 😉

    Its interesting you mentioned the results of a dodgey ministry as people being confused, angry and depressed, cos thats exactly what I experienced for a while when I came out.

    You mentioned many people going onto have good, prosperous lives after TB J prays for them. You see, this is one of my concerns about the ministry. Its always about TB Joshua’s prayers, TB Joshua’s prophecies, TB Joshua, TB Joshua, TB Joshua. Not Jesus.
    Im now a “blasphemer”, yet my life has not come crashing down around me. I’m living a prosperous, “blaspheming” life, but its got nothing to do with TBJ’s prayers for me. Its because of Jesus. In the same way, sincere ppl who go to Nigeria, get their prayer and come back trusting and relying on Jesus to help them in their lives…well obviously Jesus is not going to abandon them.

    Its true that if you watch EmTV you’ll see success story after success story. But thats all you’ll see. This is how propaganda works. You repeat something again and again and again. And when you have total control of your ministry, total control over the minisry’s tv channel, you’re going to control alot of people’s opinions. You decide what they see, and what they dont get to see. In all honsty, I dont blame you for thinking the good stuff far outweighs the bad stuff. I mean, cummon! What do you expect them to put on their TV channel?
    The bad stuff gets shown in a different light, or not at all. A former “wisewoman/junior prophet” starts accuing TBJ of touching her up: she is now demon possessed.
    A former disciple telling people about his experiences: he is bitter and just out for revenge.
    As for the others who went home and died….you’ll never EVER see that on the TB Joshua Show.

    I can sort of see the situation on this website from your point of view too though. I was once just as defensive about TBJ as other people on this site. But I now have a different opinon of him because as a disciple, I’ve seen him do stuff that viewers and visitors dont see. Its why I and alot of my friends eventually left – disciples, and “wisemen”. Its why I call EmTV their propaganda station. I understand if you prolly wont be persuaded to come over to the dark side (mwooo ha ha ha ha).

    You do seem like another reasonable commentator though (you too Jenson!). While we’re still debating, you mind if I pick your brain about a couple of other issues? I’d just like to know your opinion on some stuff like…..

    “Wisemen” (am I the only guy who thinks this is just….bizarre?)

    “blasphemers beware!” (what do you think about them calling people who speak out about TBJ are blaspheming? Do you know any other ministry that does this?)

    Jesus says not to refer to anyone as your Father, yet ppl all over the world are referring to TBJ as their father. Thoughts?

    What do you think of TBJ living and sleeping separately from his wife?

    Do you think its odd that SCOAN is not affiliated with any other ministry, and has not been endorsed by any other ministry, and has nothing good to say about another ministry? I mean, I know that “people attack what they do not understand”, “Jesus received attack”, etc. But…..not a single one?! Its like a Christian Cold War.

  9. Giles, you have some very good points there. I agree with most of them. However, I’m not sure if you know about the term “wisemen” much?

    This is all according to SCOAN, not me:
    – it’s not a junior prophet/pastor. As the ones you said are your friends. There are only 5 of them, since last year i think.
    – They are not sent out by TBJ (As the junior pastors before), but sent out by God. (I know it’s strange that they are still under his orders it seems but time will tell)
    – Wisemen are baptised in water and by the Holy Spirit, therefore they have the gift of prophecy too.

    I think that’s about it. This makes me to think, do any of you (Giles?) know why they don’t baptise in water and don’t have communion as other churches do? They do have it in the faith statement but we don’t see them practicing it.

  10. wow, I stand corrected! So wisemen outrank junior prophets?

    About your question on communion and baptism…they just dont practise communion. You know, with the bread and grapejuice, etc.
    Initially, in the early days when I went, the answer why they didnt do it was cos they didnt have enough money to feed everyone bread…but they cant exactly argue that now they’re swimming in donations. I guess you will have to find out some other way – anymore from me would be speculation, and I want to stick to facts as much as I can. But no – not once did they hold communion.

    As for water bapstism, to my knowledge thats been done only twice, on TB Joshua’s instructions (as ever). I wasnt there for either of them, but all I knew was that two individuals, on separate occasions had now been baptised in water, and TB Joshua had changed their names as well. From that moment on, the disciples called them by the new names.
    But the gist of it is that 1) no, it doesnt happen regularly i.e. with people first coming believe in Jesus and 2) only TB Joshua decides when someone is baptised in water…and 3) he will change your name too.

    The only time I ever asked why they dont baptise in water was when I was a first time visitor in 2003. I asked the visitor co-ordtr why, and he said “you know when ppl normally get baptised, but their lives dont really change afterwards?”, and I said “yeah…..(as in, im listening, go on…)”….and he says “well, thats why its only upon instruction from the Man of God….”
    lol, once again, a bit vague, but thats all I know 😉

  11. hi Vengie- sorry i didnt see your comment earlier. To answer briefly:
    1) no I’m not bitter. Dude, since I left I’ve gone to war, got married, bought a house, and currently planning on leaving the Army and emigrating…plus I have a broody wife ;-). In short, I’ve moved on! Too many major things have happened since my scoan days for me to stay up at night thinking “grrrr….grrrr!” (but i have a feeling you wont believe that).
    I do however like a good debate, if you havent noticed.

    2) You have got a point about TBJ not claiming glory for himself. His followers do that for him. (I suppose you wont believe me either about me hearing songs sung to TB Joshua..)

    and……oh yeah, 3) Make no mistake – TB Joshua DOES lead ppl to Jesus. Fact. I have seen this. But I have also seen him fly into a fit of rage and hit women in the face. This is why we have such a grey controversial figure. You say his concern is leading people to God, but could you answer this – why is SCOAN so much against the church? (i.e. non-scoan churches).
    Come on Vengie, what are we supposed to do? sell our property and move to Lagos? Or stay at home on Sundays and watch Emmanuel TV on the internet?
    What is their problem with other churches?

    Mate, at the end of the day we both believe in Jesus, right? I guess its your choice what you do with your money 😉

  12. Giles,If u were born over 2000 yrs ago & u were a disciple of christ and u saw him spit on peoples faces in the name of healing them, heard him say u must eat his flesh and drink his blood else u have no life in u (remember many left him for saying this),or hear him send u to get someone elses donkey.U would most likely have left Him.my point is everything about a MOG doesnt necessarily have to be clear 2 us.

    • Hi Soe…”most likely left him”. Lets keep away from speculating and stick to facts. (though for the record, no i wouldnt have left Jesus if he asked me to get a donkey, 😉

      You’re drifting away from the main issue here. Sexual abuse among disciples was something Jesus was never accused of. Unlike TBJ he never had a bunch of females leaving over the years. Different people, different countrys, same story.

      I disagree with you with your final point about not everything should be clear with a “Man of God”. Why on earth are we to “test all things in the light of God’s Word” when suddenly we’re “not to expect to understand Man-of-God-stuff”.
      I’m not being funny or anything, but its that kind of thinking that really will land you in a cult – SCOAN or not.

  13. About the prophecies u should see the way many break down and cry when he speaks to them,about their past present and future,how broken marriages&families are reconciled,how women with birth complications deliver their babies live without going through operation or hours of labour.how demons cry out before him and speak out but are delivered in the end.testimonies abound&all of these are shown live for all to see.so if the devil is now doing this i think he has changed from being the devil.so where is God then?

    • I’m guessing you saw all these miracles, deliverances, demons, signs, wonders and prophecies on the TB Joshua Show, right?

  14. To ur 1st question giles,no 1 is perfect but some are closer to perfection than others thats where pastors& mentors come in and and its pride for a man to question the integrity of a man he has chosen as a pastor or mentor.imagine elisha questioning elijahs integrity.
    And for question 2 you’re asking the wrong question.let me scrutinize it for you.
    tell me who the following people were accountable to
    John the baptist,moses,elijah, or even christ? You err bcos one with a divine mandate cannot be accountable to man. An employee is only accountable to his employer in like manner,A man of God is only accountable to the author of His calling.

    • There is absolutely nothing wrong with questioning a pastor or mentor. To believe otherwise only breeds cults. There is plenty of biblical precedent for this too. What about Nathan confronting King David (even God called him a Man of God!) about his adultery? What about Paul confronting Peter (the rock on which the church is built) about not eating with the Gentiles?

      As for being accountable only for God, there’s plenty I could say about this (the examples you use are highly selective for a start!), but let me ask you some questions:

      1. On who’s authority do you claim that TB Joshua is a man of God?
      2. How do you identify a Man of God?
      3. If someone calls themselves a Man of God but behaves in a grossly ungodly manner, is it not appropriate to question their self proclaimed status?
      • I agree with Ian here, Soe. If you use the title “Man of God”, you gotta play by the rules: when you are accused of something as serious as sexually abusing your followers, or cheating on your wife – keeping quiet is prolly the worst thing you can do. Dont just say “he’s a Man of God, he’s like Moses, and Elijah and Jesus…he’s unaccountable to people”.

        Sorry to harp on about this Soe, but you didnt answer my question – what is SCOAN’s problem with the church?

  15. For the third Q, u are wrong again
    James said we are tempted by our own evil desires.so stop shifting it on women. If the desire to do evil is in us no method can help like u made reference to man made methods to avoid temptation-but no reference to the whole armor of God the bible speaks of and that cannot be seen with the natural eyes! you are badly mistaken.
    For Q 4,i do not have an ans to this but as one who believes in Truth, i want to really know by what authority you ask for this&how many ministries do you have such info on and how did you get it? All the alleged cases of fraud and abuse should have been channelled to relevant authorities but it seems none are because they lack “PROOF” thats d problem what you bank on are hearsay and what you think.pls have facts.

    • I don’t really understand what your first point is, but as for your second one – it is perfectly normal for charities (which is what SCOAN claims to be) to be financially accountable to a board and a governing authority. In the UK and the US (and undoubtedly many other countries) this is enforced by law. Asking who SCOAN is financially accountable to is a very important question, if the answer is “don’t know” or “no one”, then stop giving!

  16. Mad, its all about understanding of scripture.4rm my knowledge there is litte difference,between christ and us now, paul says as He is so are we in this world.not in heaven. christ came that we may be sons of God as He is.for this reason the blble calls Him the firstborn from the dead. 2. U call him the son of God now bcos its been accepted my many.i’m talking of then when there was much controversy about him &nobody was dead sure about his personality.people were brutally murdered for preaching him.what stand would you have taken then?

    • I think what Madeline was referring to was the way your comment spoke of TBJ as if he is comparable to Jesus (as many TBJ fans do). You are correct that in a sense, all those who are born again are “sons of God, heirs with Christ, as he is in this world etc…” however, we are not yet fully glorified. This means we are still capable of sin and corruption. TBJ can only be compared to Christ in the same way that any other believer can (that’s assuming he is a believer), no more. Yes, some are closer to perfection than others by human standards, but by God’s standards, even our good deeds are like filthy rags – it is only by the grace of God that any of us stands, and that makes us equally righteous, not some more than others.

    • When you say “there is little difference between us and Christ”…you were just kidding, right?

  17. I see an overexaggeration of the power of the devil here-its a problem that the same signs and wonders that the bible says mark an apostle, the bible also said the false prophets will do.so then, just how much can these cheats do? Are we equaling their power? U used the magicians in egypt for an example,but was it every miracle moses did they were able to counterfeit? And even the ones they counterfeited was it to the same measure of moses signs? compare turning a river to blood to turning a jar of water! If Tb joshua is a devil he won’t be the only one. JESUS said the false prophets&christs are many so why is he doing so differently from his fellow counterparts? To the extent he commands worldwide attention,critisism, fame. u must have seen many witchdoctors surrendering their charms and armedrobbers delivered en-masse there. Where in the world are such recorded to the degree we see in scoan.the case of deliverance of the ex-inborn grand lama of science beyond materials known in more than 72 countries in the world,having endorsed many antichrists and witchdoctors&even having many disciples coming to receive deliverance in the scoan to me is enough to confirm him.so its bizzare to attribute so much to satan.what i’m saying is theres now where in bible history the devils signs proved greater than those wrought by Gods holy servants.

    • Soe
      I agree with you when you said that its a problem that the signs that mark an apostle can be duplicated by false teachers – hence the warning Jesus gives.

      But the bit about TBJ doing all these miracles: again I must ask, where did you see all these things?

      You ever saw the Australia for Christ Crusade video? Theres an aussie woman getting delivered in quite a major way – talking strange languages, rolling around, 5000 followers, etc. TBJ said she’s free. Everyone claps. Praise music.
      Well, she later came to Lagos, and I was surprised to see her no different. My point isnt about the ins and out of demonic delieverance. My point is about propaganda. The first deliverance was shown again and again. Her being in Lagos later acting the same way was never spoken about. Soe, Emmanuel TV decide what you get to see, and what you dont get to see. Which single person controls Emmanuel TV?

  18. Jesus said all men will know you are my disciples if you love one another.Ian, tb Joshua stands on two great pillars that make me fear for his accusers.and that is LOVE and FORGIVENESS the central truth of The gospel. I’ve seen him show love and forgiveness to the widows,dwarfs,orphans,physically challenged. Those despised by society.i’ve watched his response to critics and seen love in his words.his ministry embraces all.muslims,theives,prostitutes,witchdoctors ,murderes, ritualists, etc leading them to christ.after praying for them he gives them money to care for their material needs.he even instruct s them to go back to their churches to worship.This is how christ lived.Tell me why i should believe otherwise or which of these come from satan.

  19. How do you know the man of God misbehaved? How many of his accusers can prove his misconduct.at least giles lived with him.can he prove any? As for the disciples families.ur sons or daughters went there at their own will just as they are not forced to stay.just like the disciple of elijah, christ.they left all to follow Him because they want to be like Him.the goal of a disciple should be to be like his master.i can imagine what its like but that giles left shows they are at liberty to leave anytime.so they shouldnt blame the prophet.

    • From what I’ve read on this site, “Loving one another” would not describe TB Joshua’s conduct, and if that’s how we should know God’s disciples, what does it say about him?!

      No, I can’t prove how TB Joshua behaved, but nor can you. TB Joshua is a man in a position of immense responsibility and authority, if there is any truth to these claims it is SERIOUS! TB Joshua is a human being just like the rest of us, capable of sin and capable of being corrupted by power. It is not impossible that these allegations are true. As this site has previously mentioned, in SCOAN’s response to the Deception of the Age video, there is no denial of the accusations, just an attack on the character of the accusers.

      You keep skirting round the issue – can you prove that TB Joshua is innocent? No. Has he claimed to be innocent? No. Any serious follower of his who has any regard for the truth has some serious questions to be asking of him. The accusations are too serious to be brushed under the carpet and ignored.

    • Can I prove these things? A good, hard question. The answer: no. Neither can anyone prove he didnt- hence the controversy.

      Was I free to leave whenever I wanted? The answer IN MY CASE was yes. I could. (it was a different story with a couple of friends of mine, but thats up to them to disclose details). Youre not chained or anything. Its way more subtle than that.
      Its like getting a girl to go on a date with you. You dont go and ask her number, you make it so SHE asks YOUR number. You portray yourself as someone who she WANTS to hang out with.

      Its the same sort of thing with SCOAN. They make it so you WANT to be there. You hear all these stories, and watch all these things on EmTV, and then you go as a visitor and are blown away, and everything is all euphoria. Im telling you Soe, you’d definately want to stay.
      So, you become a disciple. All the time, youre told “man of God”….”God’s servant”….”accountable only to God”…”holy man”….TB Joshua….TB Joshua….TB Joshua….
      And you wanna be there so bad, and feel like THIS is THE place you can take up your cross and follow Jesus. I wanted it to be so much for me that when I did see TBJ hit a woman, I took it as a really inconvenient thing to witness cos it sort of messes up this wonderful image that youre witnessing the book of Acts. Thats why when the older disciples explain his behaviour, you are more willing to believe it and ignore cold, hard facts. You believe cos you want to believe, and I think thats what we are seeing with alot of his followers on this site. Thats why I keep going on about propaganda and brainwashing. Youre not forced to stay. You’re conditioned to stay. Thats why it was so devastating for me when I left on a family visit and denied to come back.

      Come to think about it, its a bit like Stockholm syndrome, where a kidnapped person is so much brainwashed by their captors that they dont need to be bound and are literally “free to go”- but they dont. They choose to stay a captive.

  20. Apart from watching on the tv,i also got the priviledge of witnessing some of these things for myself on several occasions when i visited the church.and they were real.On him keeping quiet I think He chose to be silent,not replying his critics but allowing God to fight for Him like Jesus did.in matt 27:12-14,&luke 23:9 Jesus made no reply to a single charge.on other religious bodies,(i call them religious because i don’t see love in their words and actions so they practise religion not christainity)also remember that Jesus&the apostles were rejected by the religious bodies(churches) of their day-and Jesus never said it will stop-he said if they rejected me,they will reject you also.so its like the scripture coming to pass. And its not true that no ministry has anything Good to say of Him. Many pastors have visited scoan and still visit and have testified that God is at work in Him,not to mention leaders of nations,kings and politicians. on his innocence-lets leave that for the supreme judge and judge nothing b4 the appointed time. no matter what we can prove.GOD remains judge. The chief priests and teachers of The law by their traditions&laws condemned christ but he doesnt stand condemned.he will be the one to condemn them to eternal fire.

    • Yes, you got a point there – i also know of pastors who support TB Joshua (stand corrected again!)
      However, like I said before – Jesus unites the church. TB Joshua divides the church.

      TB Joshua pretends to keep quiet about accusations but he doesnt. Do you think their “Beware of Blasphemer”, character-assasinating video is keeping quiet?

      I know they’re very big on the whole “Silence is the best answer for a fool”, “Silence cannot be misquoted”, “When the truth was ignored, Jesus was silent”…..but honestly I dont see whats wrong with a simple denial. “no, I have not committed adultery”.

  21. How has he divided the church?Have u heard him make hateful, cynical or derogatory remarks about other churches the way they critisize him and call him names? On what grounds then do you accuse Him of dividing the church? I would rather have you say the religious bodies are divided concerning Him.as it was with Jesus our Lord. John 7:12 About the video. the video doesnt show him defending himself but show statements from the lips of the same people and left for people to judge.i dont see that as a defence from him.Did u notice that their acusations were only mouthed,but the video shows documentary evidence of their character by their own mouth not any other’s. And for the adultery scandal.i see a case of crying more than the bereaved here.that should be more of His wifes headache than ours.

  22. hi Soe.
    Im a bit confused here….are you saying TB Joshua does NOT cause division among the church?

    I dont think you understood my point about the blashpemer videos.

  23. In ur words giles “you cant prove any” but you believe it and you are asking me to “prove he did not”, when u can’t prove he did.-ie theres no case here bcos its unreasonable to believe what one is accused of without PROOF just because theres a CHANCE of it being true. just because theres a chance that u rape a lady doesnt mean i have to believe a rape accusation leveled against u without an undeniable proof. And 2. In all ur explanation on how u were deceived so much to want to stay-one fact remains unchanged it was “all up to you to decide” and i dont think u are underaged. I know u have come of age to be held responsible for your actions.so stop being childish by shifting blame.

    • If you’re accused of rape, does it make you automatically guilty of it? Of course not. But an accusation as serious as that certainly deserves to be investigated! And if you knew you were innocent, wouldn’t you do everything in your power to clear your name? Why then has TB Joshua not even gone on record denying the allegations?

  24. I’m making a clear distinction btw one who causes divisions and one whom people are divided concerning his way.when paul entered an idolatory community paul was preaching,healing-there was no condemnation in his message.he never told them that their gods are worthless but gave them reason to believe His God and some folks incited the crowd against paul and they stood up to say the man is a rebel and started a riot who caused the divison here? All you hear are what people,churches,pastors say.some say hes a devil,docetic gnostic, shaman,magician, lucifer,fraud,adulterer,murderer, witchdoctor,cultist,ritualist,rapist i don’t think there’s an evil name existing that he has not been called. sometimes i wonder how 1 person can be all of these at once and still thousands of international&national worshippers flock to him daily,for hope,help,restoration,revival,healing&deliverance. Tell me Giles what remark or action did he make or take to divide the church?

    • Paul divided unsaved people, yes. So did Jesus. Neither divided the church.

      Soe, I get the feeling that for every point we make, you will have 50 things to say back. I dont think you are listening, but just thinking of the next thing to say.

  25. Ian,i’ve answered this before but let me explain better-when truth stands on trial before a generation of vipers-denial is never taken as proof of innocence.U cannot with ur mouth convince those who have already believed what they want to believe.no amount of denial could prove stephen innocent.For this reason christ chose to be silent”an african adage says a cockroach can never be innocent in the midst of fowls”

    • A 3 minute video of TB joshua personally addressing and denying the accusations (graciously), would have been 1000 times more credible than the rambling hour long video they call “Beware of Blasphemers”.

      I’m not talking about proof of innocence and guilt here, I’m suggesting these accusations deserve a fair hearing. You seem to think they don’t. Why not? Are you claiming there is no possibility of them being true?

  26. Let me remind you that he gospel according to Paul nearly caused division among the brethren. Even peter was a bit confused.just as u might be with what i’m about to say.will u now call paul a confusionist? U did not ans my Question giles but i’ll ans yours “NO” BECAUSE HE IS born of God and John said “anyone who is born of God cannot sin”1 John 3:9 if you are born of God you cannot sin-you can make a mistake but not sin.after peter was born of God-him not eating with the gentiles was a mistake not a sin-paul himself affirms that peter was clearly in the WRONG he never said peter sinned! There’s a big difference.i’m sorry to say this but its clear to me now-cuz i see people here whose faith still need to grow,hence some certain questions.i wish i had the mature to talk with so i don’t have to explain these basics.1 john 1:8-10 talks about our past.read carefully and pray for understanding.

    • We can make a mistake but not sin?! Let’s see what the bible says:

      1 John 5:17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

      and what would be the point of saying

      Romans 4:8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

      If we can only “make mistakes” it renders this verse meaningless.

      Romans 5:20 but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more

      Romans 6:13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness

      1 Cor 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin

      Why?! If we can only “make mistakes”, why flee from sin?

      1 Corinthians 8:12 Thus, sinning against your brothers and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.

      Brothers refers to fellow Christians, therefore Christians can sin against Christians!

      Eph 4:26 Be angry and do not sin

      Heb 3:13 But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

      This is written to believers.

      Heb 12:4 In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.

      Why do we struggle against sin if we don’t sin?

      I could go on and on, but I seriously suggest you open your bible and read for yourself. I commend you for actually dialogueing with us on this site, and giving a direct answer to Gile’s question, but the more you write the more it seems you have been badly deceived. If you really believe that a believer is no longer capable of sinning, then I’m not sure it’s even worth continuing this discussion!

  27. It takes a spiritual man to make judgements about spiritual things.but i see where even the earthly things are not even understood.so the issue is not Tb Joshua, the issue is us.i talk confidently bcos i know Him by divine revelation.so i know him better than you giles.though u lived with Him,i’m not sure u had any revelation from God before u went or before you left.so we are the ones with the problem having logs in our eyes and trying to remove the speck in Others eye.whearas we cannot see.how then can see the speck? we see Him not as He is but as we are. the pharisees saw the taxcollectors,prostitutes and saw condemned souls bcos they too were condemned.JESUS SAW THEM AND SAW SUCH as would enter the kingom because he was of the kingdom.

  28. The only verse pertaining to what i said is the first. No need going to the greek meaning of the word used there. Just look it up in the KJV. Many of these newer translations water-down the meaning of these things&hence change their meanings.The KJV says “all unrighteousness is sin” not “wrongdoing” its a translation problem, lets stick with the KJV. and verse 18 says whosoever is born of God sinneth not” if i’m wrong explain what “CANNOT SIN” in 1 john 3:9 & SINNETH NOT In 1 john5:18 means. WHY IS IT SO DIFFICULT FOR YOU TO BELIEVE? 1 JOHN 3:9.&1 John 5:18 this is the problem of most christains today “a sin consciousnes” not “christ consciousness” i’m quoting from scripture&u are saying i’m deceived. Wheras you chose not to believe

  29. I’m not saying a believer cannot sin.Theres a big difference between being a believer and being born of God.the latter comes from Holy Ghost baptism. the disciples beleived christ first then were born of God in Acts 2.that was why a man could die in front of peter for lying.peter was not just a “believer” He was now ‘born of God’ and as it were ‘a god’that was why a viper could bite paul and he suffered no effects. these are deep things of God.so prayerfully try to undestand.

    • Hi Soe. I haven’t got time to continue this much longer, but a quick response: First of all, the bible has a lot of verses which taken at face value contradict each other, rather than going with one side or the other, we need to hold them together in tension. A lot of what you say I agree with, but I think you are mixing up our current justified state with our future glorified state when you say that born again believers are unable to sin. I don’t know why you disregard all but the first of the verses I gave you (I could have given many more), they are all addressed to born again believers and in regards to sin.

      Anyway, we’re getting a little off the point here. You conceded that a born again believer could “make mistakes”, which implies imperfection. Aren’t we just arguing semantics here? You say mistakes, I say sin? Presumably we’re just using different words for the same thing?

      Anyway, gonna bow out of this conversation for now, thanks for chatting, and for the thoughtful and coherent answers you’ve given (unlike many other TBJ fans who stop by!).

    • On the day of judgement,what is going to happen to TBJ? When Jesus comes to judge wont he be among us waiting for his judgement. People the reason why Jesus came here,to this world was so that we be free,so that we could channel our prayers through his son Jesus Christ. No one can save you expect Jesus christ,just follow his teachings and you shall find salvation.

  30. GILES-thanks for your response but i’ll really want to know a bit more from you having observed Him behind the altar. You mentioned rivalry among the disciples-probably they treated you harshly but you never really spoke about your personal relationship with TBJ. How did he treat you personally during ur stay?

    • No offence, but you’re not going to believe anything else I say thats negative about TB Joshua, so here are just the good things:

      Generally TB Joshua was friendly with me. I didnt get as close to him as other disciples though. One time he gave me about $20 to get some new shorts, and another time he made it so I didnt have to get permission to use the treadmill (of course, the disciples then had to “confirm” this, so it was back to square one, lol)

  31. 1. TB Joshua himself says in his teachings that there’s no such thing as perfect people on this earth. Therefore I dont know where your reasoning comes from to ask whether he is perfect.

    2. All servants of God are supposed to be accountable to God. There’s no where the bible says you must be accountable to man.

    3. His responsibility is to minister the Word and guide people on the way they must leave and not to police people and see whether they are committing sin or not. Each child of God is responsible to God and will answer to their sin

    4. He has a team managing finances and that’s there responsibilty

    5. He is not the healer. Whether someone is healed or not does not change the fact that God is the healer because they are a lot of testimonies of people that have been healed and God’s Spirit works in his own way.

    In view of my observations above, your arguments and all these things you keep on writing are not only a waste of time but something you will stand to account for.

    • 1) See what Soa has been commenting above. He is a passionate and eloquent follower of TB Joshua and he believes him to be without sin. Also, see Emma’s comment on this post – she cites a sermon of TB Joshua’s where he claims to be infallible because he is a Man of God. She gives the name of it too so you can confirm the accuracy of the quote. Considering these facts, it was actually quite a good, and important question.
      2) While there is no direct command, there is a clear pattern of mutual accountability within the new testament. Church members are accountable to Elders who are accountable to Apostles who work in apostolic teams where they are accountable to each other (consider Paul’s correction of Peter). I guess it is from evidence such as this that the article should question TB Joshua’s accountability. How do you justify from scripture him being accountable to God only?
      3) I believe the question was about TB Joshua’s own sin, not anyone else’s. It was asking how he protects himself against sexual temptation, something that any minister is subject to and should have an answer to. Seeing as you seem to concede that TB Joshua is not perfect, and is capable of sin (glad to hear that!), you should be able to see the importance of this question.
      4) If he does and it’s independently audited, then great. If not – and if he has the executive say over the management of all finance, that’s a concern (it would be regardless of who the leader was, this is not an issue specific to TB Joshua).
      5) The point is, TB Joshua is the one pronouncing them healed. Who the power comes from is irrelevant to the question. I’m sure I don’t need to emphasise to you how contagious and devastating AIDS is, and for someone to return home believing they are healed of it, but not being is a terrifying prospect. In the case of cancer (for example), if the person allegedly healed goes on a dies, it is a tragedy for the family. If someone “healed” of AIDS goes on and infects many more because they believe themselves healed, that is unforgivable. Whoever makes the pronouncement has the responsibility to confirm the validity of what they said.

  32. “Asking who SCOAN is financially accountable to is a very important question, if the answer is “don’t know” or “no one”, then stop giving!” Ian’s comment here pisses me off greatly -because he would cut off the hope of thousands of weak&needy people,orphans&widows on the grounds on whom the scoan’s financial mgt is accountable to-perhaps because he’s not in their shoes and doesn’t know what it is to feed daily from a refuse dump. Such ground is not worth even being on a set of scales with helping others-a criteria to the kingdom.

    • I suppose the message is: stop giving to SCOAN, and give to a charity that is transparent, externally audited and efficiently managed to avoid corruption.

      It’s true that SOME of contributions to SCOAN will help the poor and needy. But who knows what else it will fund- we’ve already seen examples on this site of TB Joshua handing out wads of money to foreign visitors and journalists in an attempt to buy a good word from them.

      Would you give to a charity if the managing director ran the organization like a dictatorship,where all dissenting opinions were silenced and his word was absolute law? This kind of set-up is guaranteed to breed corruption- as they say, ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY. It is clear that TB Joshua has absolute power within SCOAN. So why gamble your hard-earned tithe money on a shady and unaccountable organization?

      No charitable organization is perfect, but there are plenty of organizations helping the poor and needy that are externally audited and efficiently managed to avoid corruption. SCOAN is not one of them.

  33. Soe….when you were a visitor and got to see TBJ inside his office, did you count how many TVs he has in there?

  34. Gilbert you couldnt have said it any better. I have followed this site for sometime now and it has dawned to me that we are being lured into this discussion by the devil. Remember he has his agents everywhere and the internet has become his biggest target. My prayer is that people of God you do not get absorbed and stray from your course. This site is disguised in the name of scrutinising TB joshua because he has shown many of us the true path to true Glory and hey the devil is disappointed. I ask God to forgive the champion but on the other hand maybe thats how God wants his Word to be administered through what we would deem an evil site.

    Ladies and gentlemen its not about TB Joshua he is only one of many Men Of God its all about your relationship with God. He has his own relationship and I am sure he prays nite and day that he does not go astray.
    May God bless all those who have hunger for His Word.

  35. Ok vengie, soe and gilbert, now that you have established this is the devils site does this mean you wont be visiting it anymore? Lol

  36. I think they were several i saw each tuned to show different channels.What has the number of Tv’s got to do with this controversy?

  37. yes, there are quite a few. You never thought why he needs so many TVs? Or where that money comes from?

    How would you feel if I told you disciples spend hundreds of dollars on shopping sprees each time they go on international crusades? I mean I got a few hundred dollars when I went on the Botswana for Christ Crusade. He said it was a gift. At the time I was like WOW! and yes- only too happy to have it. Other disciples got loads more.

  38. See giles,In my own opinion,TBJ Is simply a good giver who gives to everyone that depends on him & asks of him.whats now wrong with that? its even better when he gives to his disciples since charity begins at home.at least we don’t see them testifying on TV that they got so and so from him (thats For those like ian who believe his work of charity is just a showoff). do u think giles that what he gave u or gives his disciples is 2 much? Judging by how much you gave to be his disciple? I think not.if he doesnt care for them like that wldn’t that make him a hypocrite when he does so to those outside? He bears the full weight of his disciples upkeep as a true master should! Besides how many crusades does He go for? Its not much if u ask me.what hurts me more is how you have chosen to repay a man you claim defended you when other disciples attacked you, gave you special priviledges not given to others,now several hundreds of dollars as a gift (not that you were the one responsible for your welfare in the firstplace there). I mean, Theres virtually no account of your relationship with him that serves as a basis for your blasphemies on this site but the opinion of others. (non of which you witnessed to be true during your stay with TBJ.)

  39. Ok Giles its hard to kick against what you saw which i didn’t.so i’ll assume it did happen-but you never told us the circumstances that led to his rage&action towards that woman which i see as a disciplinary action though strange to foreigners but certainly not to nigerians.i stand to be corrected but i believe in your country people arent disciplined.a son hit by the father can call the cops.how many homes in the western society do parents have rods to discipline their kids as the Bible teaches? hence the high level of moral decadance. Being pius&sanctimonious doesnt in any way translate into holiness.In THE biblical account JESUS often got angry and REBUKED his disciples but the nature of that rebuke is not known to us.or can anyone prove it was in words alone? Ok what of when he got into a fit of rage in the temple driving away all in it&destroying their merchandise the worked so hard to earn or may be their only source of livelihood and even to the extent sometimes of calling woes on the chief priests&scribes as well as cursing the fig tree-all this from the most loving natured person that ever lived.little wonder God searches the heart.the bible says he who loves his son chasteneth him betimes&also no discipline seems pleasant at the time.cheers.

  40. I think youre way too concerned with winning an arguement than actually listening to what im trying to say.

    • Something had gone wrong with a visit which made him furious. He was shouting at eveyone and lashing out as if to hit disciples so as to make them cower, loads of ppl were ducking out of the way unsure of what to do. The one girl who got it in face was busy dialling on the phone…you could see her shaking and trying to ignore it, and she continued making the call.
      Its just another side that you visitors havent seen. It doesnt really bother me if you dont believe me.i had heard about it happening when i was still a tb joshua fanatic and there was no hope in me believing it.

  41. You had a problem my friend “a T.B Joshua fanatic’. If you were seeking God in your life at SCOAN then things would have been different. You still have a chance, pray that you recive God’s grace. My prayer to God is you seek his face and stop your obsession about TM Joshua

  42. Pingback: Comments on Emma’s story « TB Joshua Watch

  43. Giles,i think you really did have a future there as vengi said”…THINGS WOULD HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT” perhaps you havent really thought about this! How you exchanged an extraordinary life for an ordinary one. who knows what you would have become there-perhaps a “WISEMAN” like five of your former colleagues. but now the prospects are gone … It saddens my heart!

    • Alas, sniff sniff. I guess the Lord cant work in my life without his special servant.
      Anyway at least i met my wife, and she is much better looking than the wisemen 🙂

  44. “That you got angry enough to HIT your wife in the face doesn’t mean you HATE her”! You should have cases as a married man where a FIGHT that started out intensely ended in a KISS.

  45. Giles,i’m glad your wife is good looking,but please i’m talking about serving a PURPOSE larger than YOURSELF! Thats why you became a DISCIPLE. Isnt it? I’m not saying you can’t be used by God MIGHTILY even more than the WISEMEN. I’M saying that it won’t be EASY without a MENTOR of his KIND&perhaps may NEVER happen. “LORD I WANT TO LIVE THE LIFE YOU LIVED”

  46. Ian, u hav a reputation 4 making me go into detail-in any case,the meaning in my comment is that where there is LOVE disagreement may abound, but it strengthes the RELATIONSHIP-doesn’t BREAK it. for a fight to break a relationship it means LOVE Is LOST. The Woman giles saw was HIT is probably still THERE as a DISCIPLE. Giles did you really LOVE T.B Joshua? Or were just carried away with the miracles you saw?

  47. …Giles,i ask you this because i believe Being a DISCIPLE is deeper relationship than just being a VISITOR or a MEMBER. There has to be a bond if you agree?

    • Hi! I have a zimbabwean friend who told me that in Zimbabwe they have a medicine that make people do the things that they do at SCOAN. This is merely african traditional medicine @ hand and I dont remember in the bible reading somewhere that people had to go through all that trauma to be delivered. Jesus performed miracles but the most important thing is the word,people should be taught the word

  48. silibaziso hindoga moyo(a Zimbabwean christin),
    GILES YOU MAKE ME SAD. HOW CAN YOU ALLOW THE DEVIL TO USE YOU TO THINK AND TALK SO DEVILISHLY AND NEGATIVELY ABOUT THE MAN OF GOD,T.B. JOSHUA AND THE WISEMEN!!!! ARE YOU JOKING HERE OR WHAT? IF YOU ARE JOKING IN THIS MANNER,THEN STOP DOING THAT,YOU NEED GOD’S MERCIES EVERYDAY OF YOUR LIFE. IAM NOT TRYING TO FRIGHTEN OR THREATEN YOU BY SAYING: PLEASE DONNOT MOCK THE MAN OF GOD FOR GIVING THE NEEDY,THAT IS WHAT GOD EXPECTS OF ALL OF US. ONE DAY YOUR DEVIL WILL TURN AGAINST YOU, YOU WILL NEED HELP FROM THE MAN OF GOD MORE THAN THE ONES THAT ARE RECEIVING FROM T.B. JOSHUA NOW! DONOT BOAST ABOUT THE WORLDLY THINGS ,IT’S FUNNY TO NOTE THAT WHAT YOU ARE BOASTING ABOUT IS JUST GOD’S MERCIES. PLEASE, MAY GOD TALK TO YOU AND TEACH YOU TO RESPECT AND ACCEPT HIS SERVANTS. GOD WILL ALWAYS BE READY TO RECEIVE YOU THE DAY YOU WILL HUMBLE YOURSELF AND REPENT FROM ALLOWING satan TO USE YOU AS his MOUTH AND WEAPON TO TALK EVIL OF THE SERVANTS OF GOD. Iam sad to notice how hard and grugding you are towards the servants of God. May God have mercy on you,a sinner like me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AMEN.

    • Comments such as these make me sad, but unfortunately they’re indicative of the general attitude of SCOAN/TBJ disciples. Note who isn’t mentioned in the comment? Jesus. Plenty about TB Joshua, even a mention of his wisemen (have they now taken the place of the 12 apostles?), but nothing about Jesus. You would assume from this comment that the religion Silibaziso is talking about invoves 3 entities – God, TB Joshua and the Wisemen.

      If Giles has problems from the Devil, you say he’s going to need TB Joshua? That comment says so much.

  49. Hello everyone, this is Giles’ wife. I just want to add something without becomeing totally caught up with all these threads! I met Giles while he was a strong supporter of SCOAN. It has been said somewhere ‘How you exchanged an extraordinary life for an ordinary one. who knows what you would have become ‘. In his ‘extraordinary life’, Giles was totally devoted to Tbj and the ‘miricles’ but had very little comprehension of God’s love, peace, joy, forgiveness etc. Now he is learning to accept God’s extraordinary love etc and develop his personal relationship with an extraordinary God. It has been an extraordinary and exciting transformation. In my opinion he has ‘exchanged’ his devotion to the man Tbj, for a freeing devotion to Jesus. Surely that is better. I pray for us all, to develop our personal relationships with God and to become more devoted to Him. This should be our priority. May God show His love to you all.

  50. Who is Giles anywhere? Maybe I have missed it has your face been put on this your site? I suspect we could not be conversing with a human being but the devil himself. Please post your photo and lets see you, it could help us relate to your arguments.

  51. Looking at all the tbj loyalists comments of judgement, fire, brimstone and “DEATH TO AMERICA…er…i mean blasphemers!”…..its no wonder i had no comprehension of love, joy or forgiveness!

    We’re doomed! doomed i say! Doomed! DOOMED! DOOOOOOOOMED! YES! YES! MWOOOOOO HA HA HA HA HA….

  52. What beats me is why was your husband devoted to TB Joshua in the first place and not God. You misdirected your devotion and as a result focussed on the wrong things, finding fault with other people who themselves are also looking for God’s mercy,. Wifey you seem to be closing the subject ? Thank you , you sound very reasonable.

  53. How would a photo of anyone on this site make a difference? If you are unable to relate to the arguments that are being made by reading their words I cannot understand how a picture would change that. It seems to me that within your comment you are discrediting Giles as a person. It is a well known tactic if you imply that someone may not be human then they will not be taken seriously. Is this what you want to achieve Vengi? And why might you want people to be against this man, is it because he has switched his devotion to Jesus?

  54. i dont know the man from a bar of soap and would not rally people against him. On the contrary I am of the opinion he wants people to rally against TB Joshua. Bye the way TBJoshua’s face is public. He has put up faces of those testifying against this man why is his face a big secret?
    What is this Giles is saying about America? Please fiil me in coz its first time I have heard it.

  55. hi Vengi
    1) never mind about the death to america joke.
    2) this is not my site.
    3) the photo comment?…..er…..um…….lol. glad to see you have a sense of humour afterall 😉

    4) on a serious note: devotion to TBJ vs devotion to God. The only reason why disciples end up going there is their desire to get close to God. I left my counrty, literally with £3.00 in my pocket. All my savings- plane ticket. Quit job, wadda wadda. When I started out as a disciple I was told again and again that TBJ is God’s prophet. If you have any problems, “tell Daddy”. Any nightmares, “tell Daddy”. Any sickness, “Tell Daddy, he’ll pray for you”. Any Bible questions, “tell Daddy, he’ll explain it”. So in time, TB Joshua becomes a sort of mediator, God’s spokesman. He’s your “go-to guy” if you want anything from the Lord. If you want to know what God is saying about a situation, its not a case of pray about it – its “go to Daddy”. It sounds strange if you have not experienced it (im not trying to belittle you btw), but you really do begin to rely on TB Joshua for hearing from the Lord. Thats why people are so devoted to TB Joshua, why they flock from all over the world. Its not that they want to shake his hand or get his autograph. They’re just desperate people wanting to get to God, and they see TB Joshua as their best chance.

    My friend in another country is a pastor – he says that people there dont bother going to church anymore because they all stay at home watching Emmanuel TV.

    Vengi, I get the distinct impression that you’d hit me if you had the chance. Reel it in a little, ok?

    • PS, I might be being thick at the moment…who has put up pictures of who testifying against what man?

      my face is public? like….a wanted poster? Cool! How much money does it say?

  56. I had a chuckle at your last statement. No my brother i would never get to that(hiting you). For the first time I seem to relate to you. The way you have explained the situation does really indicate weaknesses on the part of some followers including you at the time.I should confess I could have done the same if I was in their situation, but are you insinuating that all people around TBJ cant think for themselves. They are there for the wrong reasons then as you indeed were too.
    You have just grown confident and realised you can still find God without TBJ just as most people can. TBJ has his annointing which can help most of us grow in faith ,as a human being, which he is, he has his own character maybe heavy handed. He is a manager managing people around him and needs a specific leadership stlye which m sure you know having spent time with him. Maybe you could assess him on two fronts as a manager and as a pastor.

  57. Well, bare in mind that my input is 5 or 6 years old but here goes. BACK THEN…

    As a manager, far far too much was up to him. For TBJ supporters reading this- this is not a personal attack on his character, so calm down. its just constructive criticism on how SCOAN ran business when I was there.
    It was chaos. If anyone ran an organisation that way, it would go under pretty quick. Every decision is up to just one man. Each day disciples of various departments would petition his attention to sign various bits of paper, “passes”. The way it works is eg. if I wanted to use the internet, I would write “pass to use internet” and then stand outside the office waiting to get in. You can stand from up to a few minutes, to days. There is always a crowd of disciples waiting to get in. When you’re in, you show this paper to him, and cos everyone is doing the same thing, he just scribbles on it, you say thankyou sir, and then do one.
    Bare in mind that there is a pecking order among disciples. More prominent disciples, who are closer to “Daddy” can often just walk right in. They’re usually on more important business than merely asking to use the treadmill, or the phone.
    So then you go to the internet department, show them the pass and they say ok, we will confirm it. Which means the entire process starts again. This often takes days, depending on what its for, if they like you, and if its in their interest. If for instance its a pass to join their depatement and they dont like you, they’ll never bother confirming it. Because I was never a big fish disciple, most of my passes were for menial stuff, like permission to email, permission to exercise, etc. So you can see, many decisions, from big issues, to very simple day to day stuff required permission from just one man. In a word, red tape.
    I hope describing this process explains why invitation letters to SCOAN were so nototious to get replies to! (dont know what its like now though)

    Vengi, people in scoan CAN think for themselves. I really believe that the SCOAN family who have disowned their son and his family (including a 4 year old child) over TB Joshua actually do want to get in touch. The stupidest Christian on earth can see something wrong there. If one of your family had lost faith in Jesus, how would you treat them? Would you continue to show love? Why is it different with TB Joshua?
    Many people dont speak up about anything negative about SCOAN because they are afraid of being thrown out. Im not speculating about this, I know this as a fact, from private discussions I had with people. Thats why they keep quiet. I mean, look what happened to me, lol. Harry (wiseman) and I both left SCOAN to our countries, at the same time. I thought I was coming back in 2 weeks. Thats how precarious your position can be, just like that, you’re out of there, you’ve blown it. Thats why some – and I stress SOME disiciple were too afraid to speak up about anything. I was there only a year. Others have been there far, far longer and have invested loads more money. Theres loads more at stake if they find themselves on the wrong side of scoan.

    While we’re on the topic of disciples thinking for themselves, I’d like to know your opinion about a couple of things:
    1) Do you think that TB JOshua sins, from time to time, like the rest of us?
    (please please please just yes or no – i dont want this to turn out like that other thread, 😉
    2) What is your opinion of this particular family was treated when they left SCOAN: The husband, wife and toddler lost their home over night. THey had no money, no qualifications no job, and had a child to look after. On top of this, the husband’s family cut themselves off from them and to this day refuse to speak to them. They’re all disciples.
    Jesus said love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you. The way these people were treated played a pretty big part in my decision to leave SCOAN. I’d like to know your opinion though.

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