An ex-disciple speaks: Giles in Helmand

Giles left SCOAN after facing ostracism and rejection from TB Joshua and his disciples. But when two disciples left SCOAN accusing of sexual abuse and violence, SCOAN disciples were suddenly keen to get in touch with him. They urged him to ignore the allegations and come back to Lagos. By this time, however, Giles had other things on his mind. He was serving in the army on the front-line in Afghanistan, and had recently lost his mother to cancer. Giles tells the story and includes the bizarre email exchange with a disciple:

TB Joshua prophecies that your mother will not die, and says she is healed. So she refuses chemo. Then you’re sent away to war while she’s still sick, still not healed and have to listen to her sounding worse and worse on the phone. But relax, SCOAN has your back. TB Joshua even knows her name, and he said she’s going to live. He’s sent her anointing water which you’ve sprayed on her body and had her drink and you’ve prayed about, and you gave her his framed picture. Then she dies.

Then you learn that not only is she dead, but your whole family has been trying to get hold of TBJ for a couple of weeks for a visit, or even prayer, but had got nothing but phones hanging up on them. Then, months later, when you finally DO get to talk with TB Joshua and tell him she is dead, he hangs up on you too.

No sorry. No “don’t worry, she is with Jesus… etc etc”.

Then one of your mates are killed (anointed water obviously isn’t IED-proof).

Then your pastor, his wife, the worship team and bunch of others back home leave the church accusing TBJ of the obvious, and suddenly you get disciples eager to get in contact to defend him.

Suddenly you’re told by several different people that even TB Joshua is personally waiting for your call, and that they’re looking forward to you visiting sometime, when can you come? Then you get email after email from some American disciple in Colorado urging you to not believe these stories, that we should stay true to SCOAN and that “Emma” is a demon-possessed liar and you should not have anything to do with her…but none of this really matters to you cos another one of your mates are killed (anointing water definitely isn’t IED-proof). So you reply, remind her what what you’re facing, hoping that she also understands that you don’t know if you’ll live out the week….and yet, still you get emails.

From: Emmanuel TV Colorado <————>
To: ———-
Sent: Wed, 24 March, 2010 20:02:58
Subject: HELLO GILES

“Calvary greetings from The SCOAN! This is A—–, writing from Haiti. Lagos contacted me that the prophet has been unable to reach you by phone so I contacted your brother for your number…..he told me you can only be contacted by email but that I should not allow anyone to disturb you now as your assignment is very difficult.. I disregarded O—’s request because I wanted to give you the prophet’s phone numbers so that you can call him when you have the availability. The numbers are:
+234 —————————–
+234—————————
“I also later learned that you had received an email from “Emma” and _________, falsely accusing the ministry and the prophet of certain things. I am aware of the full contents of the email and I just want to tell you that the allegations are all false – there is no truth in them. You should not allow it to disturb you but treat it as the rubbish it is and discard it. They wanted to leave the ministry and that is fine but telling lies about the ministry after you have left is not fine.”
Sister A—

From:

giles————–

To: Emmanuel TV Colorado <———>

Hello A_______, thanks for your email

Yes, I am studying everything in the light of God’s Word, cleaning out my closet so to speak of all the questions that have built up over the years. The problem is no one seems to want to talk about anything and none of my questions have been answered. The way I see these allegations is

1) I do not intend to pass judgement (i.e. yes I believe it, or no I don’t). It’s also too distressing for me to even go there. Besides, the things I have done in my private life are too many.

2) My indecision to be part of the ministry anymore doesn’t really have anything to do with what “Emma” said.

I know I keep harping on about this, but i still don’t know why my opinion is so important, and no one has explained anything to me. I mean, I’ve been told to leave when I was a disciple, and ostracised until i did leave, and on two other occasions I was forgotten about and denied invitation letters to get back. No one was interested in contacting me or my brother when my mom was dying and we were trying to get through. No one seems to be really interested in the fact that I have just spent the last 6 months fighting in Helmand, have lost two friends, and now trying to adjust to normal life (got back 3 days ago). No one seems to be interested in “Emma” and ______’s welfare either. All the phone calls and emails I’ve been getting are to do with defending the ministry’s honour and winning people back to SCOAN, and it doesn’t really matter whats going on in their private lives.

Giles

From: Emmanuel TV Colorado <——–>
To: —————-
Sent: Wed, 7 April, 2010 3:11:12
Subject: Re: HELLO GILES

Hi Giles!
The internet here is a bit crazy and not consistent at all! Hope things are going well on your end.
Just wanted to encourage you to examine all things in the light of God’s Word. Remember, we all came to Lagos because we wanted to learn God’s lifestyle – not that we live it already. If we behaved perfectly, acted perfectly, reacted perfectly, why would we want to go to Lagos to study God’s Word and character?
We are all coming from somewhere – but by God’s grace we will become who God says we are.

Stay in faith,
A——

From: Emmanuel TV Colorado ———–>
To: —————-
Sent: Wed, 8 April, 2010 3:11:12
Subject: Re: HELLO GILES

hi A_______

I’m afraid I found your email  really vague and I don’t know what you’re trying to say, nor did you reply my other email with my questions.

Lets be frank here. We don’t know each other, and I am most definitely not important to you at all. So why you’re suddenly so interested in convincing me is beyond me. My decision to leave SCOAN has absolutely nothing to do with —-‘s claims, and everything to do with the disciples. They really have no idea whats been going on in my life, mainly because disciples are not interested in other people apart from what they can do to contribute to the ministry. I’ve been on tour for the last six months and just got back. My brother asked you to leave me alone, and now I’m going to have to as well.”

It would have been nice to have received so much attention when your mom was dying. But it dawns on you – back then, they didn’t need you as much as they do now. But again, this realisation doesnt matter so much at the time cos after months of fearing for your life, you’re a nervous wreck even though you’re safely back in the UK, still jumping at every bang, still getting nightmares, still have to visit your mate’s parents and answer some difficult questions, and yes! Still getting disciples wanting to “have a chat” about what Emma had said. “Sooner rather than later”.

They were just unbelievable. Just one SCOAN person kept in regular contact (she knows who she is)(I really appreciated that by the way, if you ever read this). Not once did any of these disciples ask about how you’re doing. Not once. No one mentions your mother, or even gave any condolences. She is brushed under the carpet. These are the actions of a church that is supposed to have the fruits of the Holy Spirit like no other church. I hope emails like these serve to get the point across when I say disciples care only about defending their leader.

In stark contrast to their behaviour, you get Jesus. Some nights I would wake up finding myself reciting Psalm 23. Once I dreamt about Romans 9, and when I woke, I looked that up – “The word is near you, it is in your mouth and in your heart”. Twice the Lord rescued me. Psalm 91. Psalm 121. And when I saw my mother’s body, immediately I had the thought “why are you searching for the living among the dead?” , and later, Rev 2:10 – “Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life”. Jesus really does take the sting out of death. Even now when I’m writing this, I’m smiling.

When I looked back at the end of my tour, and looked at the disciple’s behaviour, looked at TB Joshua’s behaviour and compared it with the Lord Jesus, I began to see things very differently. Compared with other people, visitors and ex-disciples, I got off lightly. SCOAN can go on and on and on about power, but I don’t think they’re getting it. They lack love. It didn’t surprise me that my old pastor and his wife and child had lost their home. Like I mentioned in the comments (from which this has mainly been taken),  pro-SCOAN people can defend TB Joshua as passionately as I did. But the second you turn against TBJ, it doesn’t matter that you still love and believe in Jesus. You’re now a blasphemer. They’ll turn on you in a heart beat, even if they’re your own family.

28 thoughts on “An ex-disciple speaks: Giles in Helmand

  1. Hi Giles – reading this really does put things into perspective. I too lost someone who had been healed of cancer by TBJ – her funeral was truly bizarre with the only people properly grieving for her being her friends, while her family were in some form of denial. I am so sorry you lost your mother and truly believe that if she knew Jesus as her Lord then she is with him in Paradise as the bible promises. I am relieved that you are safely back from Helmand and pray that God will bless you in your grief for her and your friends. I pray also for you that God will protect you from the after effects of the terrible things you will have encountered over there. Thank goodness we aren’t dependent upon ‘prophets’ or ‘disciples’ to help us know and encounter the love of God.

  2. Thanks claire, i will definately see her again one day. My last words to her were “stay true to Jesus”, and her last words to me were “of course i will stay true to Jesus…he has always stayed true to me”

  3. Hi giles!
    May God rest ur mums soul!,but I’ll refrain from talking more about ur mum.my last comment on her issue got busted, so i’ll just respond to your your major problem in scoan being the ‘disciples behaviour’. for a start, did you ever consider the following?, that:

    1] Absence of love cannot be acertained only by quarrels, anger, insults etc. All this can happen even where Love very much exists. For instance as i once said; as a married man, you MUST have had cases where a fight that started out with intensely, ended up in a KISS.

    2] your aspertion that “They lack love” is all encompassing. At least, that you yourself said you’re grateful to the “one scoan person that kept in contact”[obviously one who knew] shows that there are SURELY many exceptions. thus, such generalisation is very inappropriate.

    3] The prophet himself is much committed to engaging his disciples to love one another through his character, lifestyle and teachings in his meetings with them, which you yourself saw during your stay and which i myself, i’m witness to.

    4] It would NEVER be proper to Ignore TBJ’s own PERSONAL character, glaring reputation of love, integrity and then take the “attitude” of “SOME” around him to instigate that the prophet himself and His ministry is “Lacking Love”

    5] there is TIME and RISK involved in changing a person into a picture of God’s character.

    i. TIME-bcos character is not built in a day, it may take years to develop a holy character.

    ii.RISK-bcos not everyone will change however hard the prophet tries,and such may end up breeding rebellion against the prophet as Bisola did.

    *question: If you say Tbj lacks love then, by what virtue did he change “countless” lives for good?

  4. Hey Giles

    It’s clearly been a trying time for you with SCOAN. From the “water bottle” to all these things. I’m glad that you managed by God’s grace to move on from everything, especially the loss of your mother.

    It really sounds like “A—” is programmed to follow orders. There’s no sense in her replies and it’s weird that they go through all that to get you back. I’m guessing they didn’t want the whole of England to be against them.

  5. @ Soe,

    “The prophet himself is much committed to engaging his disciples to love one another through his character, lifestyle and teachings in his meetings with them, which you yourself saw during your stay and which i myself, i’m witness to.”

    Whose character ? Again this man T. B. Joshua is elevated here, which is not the standard to live by, anyone who wants a standard lives by the Standard that Jesus is and the anointing that Jesus deposits in you. 1 John 2:27

    Let me show you where I base this upon Soe,

    I do understand that one of the sayings in SCOAN is, that you do not compare yourself with others. Then I would like you to stop saying that disciples should compare themselves with T.B. Joshua as I perceive here from your quote. Instead look upon what Jesus does and says and not what a mortal man does and says.

    Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, LOOKING UNTO JESUS THE AUTHOR AND FINISHER OF OUR FAITH; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:1-2

    However it says in the scriptures about another verse in scripture that:

    And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the EDIFYING of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the FULNESS of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in LOVE. Ephesians 4:11-16

    Soe, I want to you to focus a little upon when it says here about, apostles, prophets, evangelists, etc. It is very much debatable what a person says and how someone’s character is measured by whom and what standards they are adhered to. If there are flaws in this (which is the main issue here, what I understand), THEY NEED TO BE CORRECTED by the measurement of what the SCRIPTURE says, not what any man or woman DOES ! Because the written scripture does not have its origin in man but by the Holy Spirit, Jesus and the Father.

  6. @giles and claire
    The bit about several people dying after being prayed for by TBJ, Where did you people really get these things? are you not just making them up?

    I’m not trying to be cynical here,only fair
    -you express such great doubts over the miracles of TBJ with all the archives of well documented video evidences; and yet would have me believe your above story without a shred of evidence?

    Just how fair is that?

    -It is FACT that countless people have been prayed for by TBJ Over the years and healed from terminal diseases which would have seen to their end that same month as predicted by their doctors and have been alive for the past 10 to 20 years now till date&there are video clips to back up my above claim showing before,after and even present state.

    But as for your story about the deaths after being ministered to.
    I’ve not concluded its false neither am i saying its true at the moment. but as every rational being would demand, In this age where we cannot really trust anyone cos “everyone lies”[psalm 12:2]
    what else do you have to prove this serious statement other than word of mouth?

    • Soe I do not know what you want in the way of evidence but let me tell you about my friend -as I’m not family I”ll call her Anna. Anna was a God loving, Spirit filled Christian. She developed breast cancer and had surgery in the UK. After surgery she went to SCOAN and was prayed for by TBJ. She came back convinced that she had been healed. She decided not to pursue further treatment, she believed to do so would have demonstrated a lack of faith in the healing and then God would not heal her.

      Shortly after that she returned to Nigeria, to SCOAN. A year later she returned to the UK and a year after that she died. If you do not believe this Soe, let me take you to a churchyard in Alresford and we can sit on her grave while I tell you of this beautiful, wonderful, amazingly brilliant, fantastic woman, of her love for God, her family and her friends. You can comfort me while I grieve for this woman, who rejected the bounteous provision of God that is the NHS in this country, which would have given the chance of life – but instead chose to believe that TBJ’s prayers had healed her.

      You may not want to believe that those who receive prayer from TBJ are not necessarily healed – but I do urge you that if you ever find yourself in that position, trust in the full provision of God – including the medical profession, God may intend healing that way. I do not know you Soe, but I do not want you, or anyone else for that matter, to die in the way that Anna did. It was not nice.

      • Hi claire.
        I think i know who you are talking about, though i dont remember her name. I remember a lady with her family becoming disciples for a while beforemost of them changed their minds and returned to the uk. I found out later that that woman had had cancer and later died. One son is still a disciple there, i know he was very sore about it all because he choked up when he told me. He chose to stay a disciple, just like i chose to stay a member after my mom died.
        “And this is the will of my Father, that all who look to the Son and believe in him shall inherit eternal life. And i shall raise them up on the last day” john 6.40
        This is why the gospel is called the gospel, because its good news!

      • Giles – it is who you think it is. Her son is still part of SCOAN – although I have a boy of my own now, he is still my number one boy – the child I used to change the nappies of, the child I used to comfort when he hurt himself, the child I celebrated with and loved as though he were my own. E is totally lost to me now and this with the grief for Anna is almost too much to bear. I don’t know whether TBJ lacks love or not, but I do know that involvement with SCOAN disrupts families – both types, the biological family and the wider christian family. God is very familial – He is our Father, we are called to be His children -I do not believe He intends these families to be torn apart. I know the pro-TBJers will come back with the bit about leaving your father to follow Jesus, but I do not believe that God means that all contact should be lost between christian brothers and sisters in pursuit of faith in a man, because that is what Anna’s story seems to me, not faith in God to heal her, but faith in TBJ.

  7. *question: If you say Tbj lacks love then, by what virtue did he change “countless” lives for good?

    To answer this, read this for your edification:

    Matthew 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

    At you other point No. 4, you do again here an elevation of a human being named T.B. Joshua to a sort of godlike status, which only belongs to God Himself and Jesus Christ.

    • hi claire
      yeah, i know who it is then. We were once talking about why people dont seem healed straight away when TB Joshua prays for them. He explained that it was like water in a tap – declaring someone healed is like closing the tap. The water will eventually run out beacuse the tap is closed, but there may still be water in the piplines that will trickle out for a while. In the same way, he said, some people will still display symptoms of being sick – but “the Man of God said they are healed, so they will eventually be completely well”. He confided that his mom had cancer, but also he believed she would get better because of what TB Joshua said. In another conversation I had with him much later, he mentioned his mom had died, and suddenly seemed extremely cut up about it, but he quickly changed the conversation. As a disciple, you cant really grieve because they say that Satan can use your feelings against you, and that might effect your faith, and that if you do feel sad, its just the outside that is sad, but “the real you is just fine”.
      So basically the same story as my mom. We both stayed loyal to the ministry after our mothers died, though in my case only for 6 more months before I began to forget what I had been fed about TB Joshua and look at the facts objectively.
      I later found out that my mom was also extremely worried about my being involved with SCOAN, and they had all been praying for me. So take heart! Look what happened as a result of their prayers.

  8. Soe, I’m afraid your comments are lost on me. I dont read them anymore because they’re either nasty (like your post directed at my mother that got removed), or more to the point too long and complicated. I often have to read them 3-4 times over before understanding your points, and when I finally do understand what you’re saying I find that its off topic anyway.
    Like Jenson mentioned before, I only read comments that are short and to the point.

  9. Now giles,
    i guess your last comment would be a very good way of evading my points&questions -just like when you tried evading my question on the “lady that got hit” by saying “i was only looking for what to say back” until vengi had you knock it off!
    Christ was right in saying: “”…Everyone on the side of truth listens to me”.” (John 18:37).
    Unless all i’m saying here are blatant lies, its very clear why you wouldn’t listen, even when the Bible instructs that: “… Everyone should be quick to listen..”,(James 1:19).
    -I really did regard you as a man of integrity, but with such comments&refusal to answer Questions, you’re fast making me discern otherwise.
    you may not have shown your face on this site as some requested, but you’ve sure painted a very public picture of your innerself with saying the above-all this, from a guy who complained of not getting any answers while in SCOAN. It brings us to question if you really never got answers or rather you yourself chose not to listen.

    • SHOCKING! I am appalled and have had enough of Soe’s warped comments.

      Giles – I’m so sorry that you have to endure such drivel! Just remember who/what sits behind it – certainly not Christ. It seems like some people have no shame and will go to any extreme to make their little god (TBJ) look a bit better.

      Soe – come off your high horse and show some humility. Aren’t you the one who refused to answer whether TBJ sins or not…?

  10. @tbjoshuawatch

    thanks for your response which you rarely do though.
    i must admit that
    your statement sounds very true at first considering his country’s reputation. but then, please kindly answer these few questions:

    1] TBJoshua’s stiffest opposition sprang from and is still deeply rooted in Nigeria, knowing this and how much the doctors would have realised from countless amputations, operations etc. how is it possible then that all nigerian doctors have sold out to him?

    2.What other proof aside from medical certificates showing before&after and witnessing healings LIVE as they happen do you require to believe that the miracles indeed happened?

    3.What about the very obvious open cancer sores of different body parts with deep gorges[and atimes even insects] that close up perfectly several days after prayer?

    4.How about the very many International visitors that come with their “before prayer” and “after prayer” medical certificates-have all those international doctors also sold out to him?

    -Would very much like to hear your answer.

    • Hi Soe. Personally, I believe that miracles do take place at SCOAN. However, would you say that it is only God who can perform miraculous feats? Or are other forces also capable of doing this?

    • Hey Soe,
      First, of course I’m not saying that ALL nigerian doctors have sold out to TBJ.. I don’t follow your logic here. I was suggesting that a few doctors may be prepared to give fake medical certificates in return for a tiny slice of TB’s $15 million. This is hardly far-fetched.

      What proof would I need? I’d go with what Dr Hardaker suggested: “truly free and independent scrutiny from a group of trustworthy and impartial researchers who have access to all participants” who have ” the liberty to report all findings both negative and positive”. This would be a good start. Do you think SCOAN would allow this?

      All the stuff you regard as evidence is from Emmanuel TV, TB Joshua’s own propaganda channel. And all the people who I know who have been to SCOAN for healing of a serious illness have died (that’s four people). Three of them were proclaimed healed by TB Joshua. One was refused entry for prayer after initially being promised it, and she died in hospital in Lagos (btw she was the only black African, the other three were white Brits). That’s not a good track record.

      I’m not saying it’s impossible that anyone prayed for in SCOAN has been healed. I’m not going to repeat what was written in the article about ‘miracles’.. I’m just saying, if you’re talking about FACTS, I’m going to need a better source than Emmanuel TV.

  11. Has Jesus refused to pray for anyone? this will be yet another issue thats not going to be addressed

  12. @claire

    thanks for trying to provide evidence with such a story, yet i must say i’m not sure how sitting on anna’s grave with you would give credence to your story anyways.

    Its still boils down to you asking me to take your word for it-the very thing i want substantiated.lol

    • Please Soe show some humanity. Do you really think that someone would make up a story and “try” to provide evidence for the death of a friend?

    • Soe – I asked you what evidence you wanted. Giles has stated on these pages that her son told him she had been healed by TBJ before she died. There may be others that can also testify to that. And I can show you her grave. What sort of evidence will convince you that TBJ prayed for her healing and that she then died? Alas, the dead cannot speak – so Anna can’t tell you herself. But she was buried, not cremated – there is a grave. So what will it take for you to believe?

      You know nothing about me, yet you would believe that I lie because what I say does not accord with your belief in TBJ. Why do you think I would lie? What benefit will I gain? Giles and I have both stated that we had people close to us who died following prayer by TBJ – two different women. When Anna said she had been healed I asked my pastor what he knew about SCOAN, as this was in 2003 and I knew little then. He didn’t know much but knew a Baptist minister in Winchester who did and spoke to him. The news was not good – the message from the pastor in Winchester was simply ‘I bury the people who have been healed at the Synagogue’. If he lied too (apart from that fact that this would be a lot of different unconnected people lying the same lie) what did he have to gain?

      Please do not reject my witness statement – if you fall sick with cancer or someone close to you does, I beg you not to rely purely on the prayers of TBJ. Anna’s death was horrific, there was real suffering – it is not a case of falling asleep.

  13. Soe
    Are you a member of the SCOAN? I am not disputing the fact that tbj could be a man of God,what is shocking is this annointing water,it works like the medicine you get from the traditional doctor and now there is the new stickers. What happened to the laws and teachings of our Lord Jesus christ that teaches that all you have to do is to believe and honor his teachings and your faith will give you salvation.

  14. Hey TBJwatch

    I’ve tried to write this comment three times now from my phone and it hasn’t worked so apologies if I seem to be repeating myself.

    Not sure where the actual comments are but pro-SCOANers have often used the phrase “maintain your miracle” i.e. if you don’t keep up your levels of faith after a healing, then you can get un-healed.

    I’d be really interested in a post that discusses this in a bit more detail – did the teaching come direct from TBJ and if so, what was his biblical basis? Just a thought but I think people that have lost loved ones to TBJ’s “healing” would be interested too.

    K

  15. Pingback: Anna’s story: Another victim of TB Joshua’s bogus healing « TB Joshua Watch

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