Abuse allegations against TB Joshua: how can they be verified?

This is a guest post by regular contributor Madeline.

In a previous comment on this site, Soe, who is a regular contributor, responded to a comment about Paul talking about judgement in 1 Corinthians 5 v12.

Soe said:-

“You should know that paul was referring to an abominable act the church itself was aware was committed,[not unverifiable allegations] “in their fellowship” ie the corinthian church, not the fellowship of another church!”

I am also a regular contributor and asked Soe some questions.

Hi Soe – I have two questions for you.
Currently you are saying that what has been said about the actions of TB Joshua are “unverifiable allegations.” However these “allegations” are about abominable acts that have occurred within the church.

Question 1) What do you require as verification that these acts have occurred?

Question 2) What will you do when you receive that verification?

And Soe responded:

@Madeline
in answer to your [question1]
now i wouldn’t ask for “video evidence” as one commenter on this site asked, as that wouldn’t be plausible, but we know what is, at least bisola &emma are adults&were not held captive or forced to remain in the church; hence, my answers on what would be convincing verification;

i.taking steps right away at the moment, if the they’ve been sexually assaulted.

ii.Getting away from their “supposed attacker” to a safe place as fast as they could after the moment?

iii.not washing, combing, or cleaning any part of their bodies and even not changing clothes if possible, to enable any hospital staff or police officer to collect evidence.

iv.going to the nearest hospital emergency room as soon as possible to be examined, treated for any injuries, and screened for possible pregnancy or evidence of fibers, hairs, saliva, and other body fluids, on their clothing that may have been left behind.

v.They [emma and bisola] or the hospital staff at their wish could have called the police from the hospital’s emergency room to file a report.

vi.To crown it all, knowing the seriousness and implication of their allegations they should have given room for “intelligent questioning” by availing themselves to journalists and pressmen, not just selling out some “recorded testimony” that completely removes any chance of questioning what’s being said so that the public would swallow their words hook, line & sinker.

But not even ONE of the above was done! Yet they expect a 21st century civillised,and technologically advanced world to wholeheartedly believe.Its also very easy to notice the low quality of their verbal evidence in the video which clearly nullifies the effectiveness of their testimony. Not to mention that no “two or three witnesses” ever witnessed the same case which the bible says must be before allegations are even entertained – what we have are allegations from different sources. Yet no other witness to their individual stories.

[Question 2] if proven by the methods above, then my doubts would fly as regards their allegations as there would be sufficient grounds for me to believe them.

I felt that this was a very important conversation to have on this site as it starts to address some of the very serious and key issues that are the reason for the existence of this site.

To set the scene just a little about where I am coming from. I have heard first hand about the experience of two former disciples of TB Joshua. It is not for me to repeat what they have said because that would be second hand. I can respond from my own knowledge concerning abusive situations and express that what I have been told by these people very closely matches the descriptions of other victims of proven abuse.

Soe has described the process that could ultimately lead to an incontrovertible proof that a sexual act had occurred between two people if there is a DNA match. Ensuring that bodily fluids and clothing are kept could increase the chance of a rapist being convicted of the crime of rape. The abuse that I have been told about is a far more complicated and subtle and prolonged process.

However, I will respond about the process that has been described with further questions, to Soe or to any one who knows first hand about the life of a disciple within SCOAN.

Can you tell me what would happen to a disciple who said that they needed to leave the SCOAN to go to the hospital and also to go to the police? Would that be permitted? The time that I visited it was very clear that I was not allowed out of the gate. Is this the same for the disciples? Could you walk out of the compound and go to the hospital?

If disciples are not free to leave at any time and go to the hospital then I would dispute Soe’s statement about people being forced to remain in the church.

Can you tell me what would happen to a disciple who was told that they must not speak about certain events to anyone, but they talked to hospital staff and police?

So now I have one more question. If a disciple walked out of the campus at SCOAN and went to the hospital and called the police to say that abuse had happened to them within SCOAN and the person was TB Joshua. Would the police arrive at SCOAN to test the DNA of TB Joshua? Would he be prepared to accept this and act with grace and humility?

The people who I have spoken to have now removed themselves from the situation. Admittedly this was not immediately after any individual event, but they are now in safer places.

If a person were able to go directly to the local hospital and the police and were believed by them they should not be talking to press or journalists as that could jeopardise the legal process. It seems to me that the people who have spoken out have been very courageous and used any way that they could.

Regarding the number of witnesses as far as I can see there are more than two or three witnesses who are talking about what has happened within SCOAN.

I have directly observed on this site that when Emma wrote, the immediate response used words such as “cursed” and the “wrath of God will come upon you.” If this is the reaction to talking about things that have happened I am not surprised that it is difficult to do so.

If Soe’s criteria for “verification” are not possible to undertake then how can you decide on the allegations?

My belief in what I have been told comes because I believe the people; they spoke with courage and sincerity. Everything about what I was told fitted with what I already knew about abusive situations.

Ultimately it will always come down to “My word against yours” and that would also happen if the full process were followed and there was DNA proof.

 There is no doubt that TB Joshua is a man of power and that any individual disciple who speaks against him is a single vulnerable person. For me that makes it more certain that they are telling the truth because of what they lost in the process. You would not give up your position and reputation for something that was not true.

I look forward to seeing the comments and answers and continuing this discussion.

94 thoughts on “Abuse allegations against TB Joshua: how can they be verified?

  1. I once had my bag searched and headache tablets confiscated. I got into trouble because i had medication. For a disciple to ask to go to the hospital is ridiculous, especially if its to obtain rape evidence. That will never, never happen. Besides, alot of abuse victims feel ashamed and keep things to themselves. Thats why so many chilren who were molested often wait til they were adults before they finally admit what happened. The above suggestions of what a rape victim should remember to do are unbelievable.
    If ever i get raped, i will be sure to have a digital camera on me to get photographic evidence. And some forensic evidence bags to preserve my bloody torn clothes.

  2. Answer to your question:
    maybe a disciple would not be allowed to go out of the gate.because he or she might have been stripped of a part of the cloth.bt at least it would have been an attempt.even if it leads to losing her discipleship,it would have been an honour.and by now she would have been saying “i tried to run to the police but i was stopped by the security”.but nothing of such nature was mentioned.so
    Which is better, to have fought with the security and at the end loose her discipleship with honour,”because of the truth”.or to now start fighting a battle with T.b joshua that we all know can never be victorious?.so why didn’t she expose it at first?All of a sudden to come now and expects us to believe her without evidence.

    • Hello Doi. Are you saying that a Disciple who tried and was stopped by security would lose their place as a Disciple. What does it mean to be a disciple if this can be taken from you because you try to tell the truth.
      What would happen to that person? It seems to me mainly from what I have seen written here that to make any accusation of anything would be extraordinarily difficult. The whole set up seems to be designed to stop people from being free. To have even said what has been said from a place away from SCOAN is very courageous.
      You ask why you are expected to believe this now without evidence. Would any accusation be believed if spoken at the time it occurred? I think not.

  3. Wow, its like you deliberately missed out the bit about women keeping silent about rape out of shame.

    • Yeah, talk about missing the point. A lot of abuse victims wrongly believe that they have somehow done something to cause the abuse, hence the shame in coming forward.

      x10,000 when the abuser is someone you not only respect and look up to but a Messiah figure, who just also happens to control everything in your life. The wonder is not that rape victims don’t come forward but that any ever did.

  4. I am curious about something though with scoan supporters opinions: what do they say about these womens motives? Why did these disciples suddenly turn against tbj? They lost their home by saying this kind of thing…why would they make it up?

    Short and to the point appreciated 🙂

  5. Hi madeleine,

    giles did respond to your question by saying that:

    “disciples are not allowed anywhere without tbjs permission”

    and yet the same giles said somewhere else on this site:

    http://www.google.comoshuawatch.wordpress.com/2011/05

    …”Was I free to leave whenever I wanted? The answer IN MY CASE was yes. I could. …You’re not chained or anything. Its way more subtle than that.

    …And speaking as one who used to live within SCOAN premises, while visitors may be searched to ensure the safety of others, disciples are much highly respected by the church security that not only do they walk in and out of the church gates at will, anyone elese is allowed in or out on their instruction.

  6. Hi Soe – Oh so many questions I want to ask you but most of them off topic.
    Giles has very clearly indicated that he is talking of his own case and that he was aware that there were others for whom it was different.

    When you lived in the SCOAN premises were you free to come and go as you pleased without permission from anyone?

    Other questions – why do visitors need to be searched for the safety of others? What are the visitors likely to be doing that is so dangerous?
    Are you saying that someone who is not a disciple has to have permission from a disciple to leave?

  7. @madeline

    While i was there, i was free to go whenever i pleased, not one security officer would even dare stop me if i did, but when you live with a guardian responsible for your welfare and upkeep, its only proper if he’s aware of where you are or intend to go because he would be held responsible for whatever happened to you, its a FACT that disciples remaining or leaving the premises is ALWAYS a choice.

    2. As for the visitors being searched -its not usually done as a routine check that’s why i used the word “may” it may only happen if the security officer is suspicious of a visitors behavior or carriage, as some people have been known to carry daggers, knives and other dangerous weapons into the church -certainly not for slicing carrots i suppose.

    3. A very big NO, but its only proper if as a guest your cordinator is aware you’re leaving. I only used that to indicate the level of authority disciples have, something bisola and emma clearly had to their advantage but pretended to lack.

  8. How come there’s supposed to be a 10m high angel standing at the corner of the avenue, and all visitors are supposed to have heavenly hands over their heads….but there’s security guards at the gates with AK-47s and visitors have to be searched?

  9. hi madeliene,
    to clear that one up – as to whether you can leave, theres a bit of a play on words here. In my case, you CAN leave, however, you MUST FIRST GET PERMISSION. I had to go to the office, get TB Joshua’s permission, then the ball would be rolling. For me, who was only ever there a year, no problem.
    If however I decided to just pack my bags and get on a taxi to the airport, NO WAY! You will see some massive drama that day. For one, your return ticket and passport is taken away from you when you arrive as a disciple, so thats also a problem.
    So again, was I free to leave? er…yes and no.

    • @soe
      You express such certainty about what other people should do, but it is clear that you and Giles had very different experiences at SCOAN.

  10. this is getting off the topic, once again.
    About verifying these allegations, could I put forward my question again, for Doi or Jenson (if he’s reading this)
    Why would two 10-year disciples, who depend on SCOAN for their house, money and work, suddenly turn against the ministry? Why would they lose all that for a lie they created?

  11. Hi Giles

    I’ve heard that it is a lying spirit that makes them do it. Like Judas did to Jesus. It’s hard to think that they did it to give TBJ a bad name or for money. It’s either true or has to do with some spirit behind it.

    • Two junior prophets empowered with tb joshua’s Holy Spirit annointing suddenly become demon possessed overnight? TBJ is so famous for dramatic deliverances of the demon possessed, but when two of his own disciples become demon possessed, they are branded blasphemers, their home is taken from them.
      Dont you think its strange that even family members cut off links, yet every week other families are bringing their demon possessed loved ones to scoan for deliverance?
      How come the church has made no attempt to help them?

      Jenson, how would your church react to you if you suddenly became demon possessed?

      • The 2 junior prophets were empowered with what? I think that if they were empowered by some spirit could they maybe have discerned the source of it?

        I know some of the “disciples that has a lying spirit” and it’s insane to even think that. I agree to the way they’ve been treated is wrong. But if your son ran away from you and said bad things about you… would you keep running to him and try and fix it? maybe yes?

        If yes… then they should definitely spend more energy and time trying to fix the situation than spending it on accusing and judging them… saying they have evil spirits.

        A friend of mine was a disciple and left the ministry. Started his own church but when he went for a visit… no one looked at him.. as if he abandoned God. TBJ encouraged him though… it was the disciples… but it shows how some of their minds works.

        I love the short comments 🙂

  12. I don’t know.but what i really do know is such things that are unchangable must happen.Judas iscariot also was one of the twelve who depended on Jesus for everything but what happened at the end?
    And remember Jesus said if we believe in Him we would do more.(JOHN 14:12).there4 we’ll also receive more persecution hatred and the likes.My friends,
    What i really want us to do is to LOVE.No matter what i hear about any other man of God i can’t stand and begin to condem cos i know i’m not perfect.there’s no point Judging.

    • The thing is Doi, these are not minor disagreements we can overlook. Either TB Joshua sexually abused these women (serious offense), or these women have falsely accused TB Joshua of it (serious offense). You can’t go anywhere with this without making a judgement. Even to try to ignore the allegations is a judgement – one in favour of the accused. Personally, due to the evidence I’ve seen and knowing the character of those making the allegations, I believe them. You may come to a different conclusion, but it can’t be on the basis of not wanting to judge, because whichever way you go – you are still judging!

      • @ ian
        you seem to have formed your judgement on the matter on the basis of ‘knowing the character’ of the accusers. have you made any attempt or effort to know the character of tb joshua (the accused), aside from listening to the accounts of a few who have chosen to leave the ministry and harbour bitterness in their hearts towards him? Have you ever sought the honest opinions of the many who are still his disciples (some of whom you could easily have ready access to, if you wished to)? have you ever took the time and pains to seek out and interview a few of the thousands who have received lasting testimonies of healing, deliverance and blessing through this ministry (rather than just perhaps reading about them, which admittedly is second hand)? or have you rather chosen to listen to the isolated few who have complaints of not change or of growing worse after prayer? if you truly are basing your judgement on character, by what basis are you judging good character, as a Christian?
        One thing for sure, we know that everyone lies to his neighbour (psalm 12:2) whom are we to believe?

      • Hi Radicalised. I’m sure you’ll agree that these allegations are serious enough that you have to come down on one side or the other, they can’t just be brushed under the carpet. There is no evidence by which we can come to an empirical conclusion – you have to look deeper. When I first came across TB Joshua (over 10 years ago), I was genuinely intrigued. I wanted to believe it was an amazing move of God we were hearing about in Lagos. However, there were a few things that caused me to hold back:

        1. Total adulation towards TBJ
        2. Strange beliefs regarding TBJ and sin (Never quite said he was infallible, but couldn’t admit that he sins either)
        3. Inappropriately graphic healing videos (including exposed genitals and breasts)
        4. Point blank refusal to discuss TBJ’s past (questions about his background would just get quotable quote responses about how the past is insignificant. What are they hiding? I still don’t know!)
        5. Telling people to quit life preserving medication if they want to receive their healing. Every case of this I know of resulted in their premature, if not unnecessary death.
        6. Total disinterest in people if they turned out to not have been healed
        7. Once you were a disciple at SCOAN, you went totally off the grid – practically no contact with your old friends and family
        8. Videos showing kids at SCOAN singing songs of praise to TB Joshua

        Despite all these things, I genuinely wanted my concerns to be proved false. I had dear friends out there for sincere reasons. I didn’t want to entertain thoughts that they might be part of a cult. However, when some of these friends left, reporting all kinds of abuses of authority (sexual abuse being just one aspect), it horrified me, yet didn’t really surprise me due to everything I had observed over the years.

        As for getting to know TB Joshua’s character, how would you suggest I did that? I’d have to reach the highest echelons of his disciples to get any face-time with him, and do you think I’d consider for one second becoming a disciple after everything I’ve seen over the years? I think all the observations above, plus his response to serious allegations (Beware of Blasphemers) tells me all I need to know about his character.

        I get the impression you think you know me. Perhaps with your permission I could get your email address off the administrator and we could continue this discussion away from the site?

      • hi ian, yes, we can continue our discussions away from this site. my email address is: tomorrowthinker@gmail.com.

        but a few responses to your points above:
        – there is not total adulation towards tbj, but rather towards Jesus who is the Healer, Deliverer and Saviour – there is of course respect towards the one whom God is using
        – the teaching in synagogue is very clear that all sin, including Christians at times
        – tb joshua himself has openly talked about his past in various press interviews and often in the church – the disciples also speak of his past and how the ministry started – nothing is hidden there
        – in the scoan, nobody tells people to stop taking medication, it is according to the faith of the person… many voluntarily choose to stop taking it, while others choose to continue taking it
        – there is actually extra attention given to those who are ‘not healed’ as many of the messages given are aimed to help people understand the situation they are in and seek to know God’s will and God’s opinion about the situation
        – i have never seen a video with kids praising tbj nor ever heard such a type of song in the sunday school of the church – he always encourages people to look to Jesus Christ

        you do not reach the ‘echelons’ of being a disciple before knowing the character of tb joshua. you just need to visit or perhaps watch the services on emmanuel tv for quite a while and his character comes across.

        if then you say that you cannot know his character, then why are you making assumptions purely based on what you have heard from a few isolated individuals?

        also you did not answer my question:
        ‘if you truly are basing your judgement on character, by what basis are you judging good character, as a Christian?’
        (or perhaps you can answer this through an email if you wish)

  13. Doi, you are right about love. Its a deciding factor in my personal assessment of scoan.
    However, lets not hide behind the “dont judge” defense. That only applies to non-christians.
    Why would Jesus go to all that effort to warn us about false teachers, wolves in sheeps clothing, false messiahs, how we are to test the spirits, how we are to be discerning…when at the end of the day we are not to judge? How does that work?

    i know you dont know. I dont know either. Before i left, i inquired about if anything was to be done to look after those two disciples who had suddenly become demon possessed, especially since they have a baby daughter. All they kept saying was dont believe their lies, and to have nothing to do with them.
    All the financial support those two received when they got kicked out their home was from other blasphemers who also left scoan uk.

    This is not how Jesus commanded us to treat our enemies. He said to bless them, pray for them, love them. Not kick them out onto the streets when they become demon possessed.

    • it would be a sad thing indeed if such were kicked out, abandoned and ostracised, but has anyone on this site considered the possibility, that perhaps the ostracism was of their own will and request and the leaving home of a similar nature? we must not always be so eager to deal out judgement based on only what we have heard without ascertaining the facts of the matter. it is a common trait among us human beings to always sympathy with ‘victims’ even if the fate they have found themselves in are almost entirely by their own doing. i am not claiming to know all that has occurred in this case or any other, i am only throwing another card in, so we can all take time to think before immediately believing all that we read. at the end of the day, like i have said in earlier posts, we all need to seek to know God’s will and mind. let every man lie, but let God be true.

      • Hi radicalised….simple question for you then.

        Has anyone from scoan uk ever tried getting in touch with them?

      • Radicalised, you mentioned how we should not be so eager to deal out judgement.

        That being said, do you have anything to say about the Beware of Blasphemers videos?

      • hi giles

        – how do you know that they were not spoken to and contacted?
        – b of b videos are facts, not mere assumptions

      • You’re answering a question with a question. Thats classic evasion. Why is it always so difficult to get straight answers from SCOAN!?
        HOW OFTEN DOES SCOAN TRY CONTACTING THEM?

        -I know because i am in regular contact with them. we had them round just last weekend 😉
        -B of B videos. Thanks for commenting, but again its really not answering anything. No one is saying all those dirty secrets about ex disciple’s past are assumptions. Of course they’re true.
        The question was:
        Is slander how Jesus said to treat our enemies?
        Please give a more detailed response.

        And once again, back to my original question. Why would those two former disciples make this all up? motives?

  14. @ Giles

    I can testify that if your prayers are sincere to God and you stand before Him clean, He will show you and help you discern what the Truth is, the Holy Spirit is the spirit of Truth. Even in time exact, this will be in the Spiritual as well in the Natural.

    My own experiences are like this, not a standard to go by but a sincere advice and kindness to you and everyone. My own experiences are usually very similar, if not same, or even specific like in other serious committed followers of Jesus Christ and those who have their Faith in Him. This is how I know, that God hears, answers, and directs us through our prayers we petition in time, if they are in His will.

    Other occasions usually are grace and mercy. You must Keep trusting in Him for all situations and matters and whenever you step out and you are unsure of what next…. He will show you….. Whenever you let go of your own abilities, insights and strengths and surrender to His Spirit, you will experience unusual things that are impossible. Most people do not want to surrender. Very important. When His Hand is upon you, It\’s only waiting for when, how and where.

  15. Hi nanardi, thanks for your top tips.

    Just coming back to the process of eliminating the reasons why two loyal disciples suddenly went rogue-
    We were exploring the possibilities of them becoming demon possessed. Its the official explanation. There is a lot of doubt in my mind about this, from the above questions.

    • Jenson.
      They were junior prophets, one of those few disciples selected to pray for the sick in prayer lines. Remember, not everyone is allowed to pray for people, only those chosen by tbj.This was before the wisemen were introduced.

      If my son ran away from me and began slanderong me, the last thing i would do is throw his stuff out and slander him back. Not exactly prodical son stuff, is it?

      What was the story with your friend? Why did he leave?

  16. @Giles,
    1)unless you are telling me you are perfect upright and without sin.then i would listen to all you’ve wrote.but if not, i’m afraid you have to be careful.

    2).you said “not judge”are for non christians.HOW? Can you prove that? Cos in the early verses of mat 7.)JESUS saw the need to warn us about judging.before He said beware of false Prophets….take note of the word BEWARE.not condem.so what are we saying?

    @ian.i keep praying that if there’s anyway i’ve condem anyone,Christ should have mercy.but if you have gone through my coments.u’ll realise that it would do me no good to condem the accusers.cos i know wether i accuse them or not Tb Joshua is who God says He is.wether we have different views or not.

    • Hi Doi. My point is, the one indisputable fact in all this is that these accusations exist. If you don’t believe them, you are effectively accusing Emma and Bisola of making evil, outrageous lies against an innocent man. What’s that if it’s not judgement? You’re perfectly entitled to believe that TB Joshua is innocent of these crimes, but make sure you give the stories a good, fair hearing before coming to a conclusion, and be wary of the seriousness of writing them off just because you your loyalty to him.

    • Doi, im a little confused about your policies about discerning…there is nothing to stop me or anyone else from starting our own movements and doing whatever we want.
      All i would have to say as my defence is “dont judge!”

      Not being funny or anything, but you didnt address the questions earlier.

  17. @Radicalised
    im interested in your opinions about why the two said junior prophets would make this all up after being loyal for a whole decade. Motives?

  18. Hi Radicalised.
    You are presenting this situation as if “Leaving SCOAN – being abandoned – being ostracised” all come as a package. That is shocking. Why does leaving somewhere need to be such a harsh experience?
    What if the people concerned made the choice to leave SCOAN and were aware that this would bring with it the behaviour that has been described, being cut off from their natural and church family. That would indicate that the need to leave SCOAN outweighed all of the loss and sadness that the action would generate. In the debate about how we decide what has really happened it is actions such as this that add to the reasons to believe the people.

    • hi, sorry if that impression was given. if you read my post again, you would see that that is not what i was implying at all, merely just that, those people may have ostracised themselves rather than being ostracised by others. as soe has mentioned, many have left scoan and moved on to other things and their leaving has not caused them to being abandoned or ostracised at all, on the contrary, many have received blessing before going, including money and support for their future endevours

      • Hi Radicalised my understanding of what you were saying is that there are two sides to a break in relationship. Do you know about this situation? Do you know what has been offered by the people in SCOAN to keep the relationship with these disciples?

      • i know that one got in touch with his dad to try meet up and initially it was agreed, he seemed he really wanted to meet up again as well. however, closer to the time when he called his dad again, it was suddenly a no, we’re not meeting anymore, dont call us etc.
        there was no explanation why this sudden change of heart.

  19. It is is a fact that throughout scoan’s history many disciples have come and gone,at least even though giles spent just a year he testified to witnessing 20 disciples leaving, including 6
    junior prophets. This brings us to wonder the number of them that hust have left over the years, maybe running into several hundeds or even thousands, out of this huge number, why are These few peeople the only ones that seemed to get the short end of the stick? Bisola claimed tbj had “lots of concubines” but never mentioned even one, personally amongst other things, I really wanted her to tell how she gets to “continiously” spend time alone with the prophet without the notice of other disciples which as far as I’m concened isn’t possible having once worked in the prophets office (this meant seeing him almost round the clock-) not trying to sound special or anything,but in my opinion she wasn’t even half as close to the prophet like I was. I know giles is familiar with the term “office worker”.

    2. I know some disciples who left and are still members to this day,a fellow disciple who also left (a lady) is also a student of computer science in my school (still speaks of tbj with much respect and honour) another one who fomerly was a disciple is currently a lectuer in my university and is still very much in love with scoan.he claimed he told the prophet of his desire to leave to spend more time and care more for his family and in his words “the prophet blessed him”.this confirms jenson’s earler statement of a disciple that left to start off his ministr being encouraged by tbj.

    My point is, bisola and emma are not the only disciples who have left scoan-there’re lots of them.why shhould we ignore those succeeding, with an objective report to believe otherwise? its far-fetched for me to ignore my experience, and that of my colleagues, to believe them.

  20. Hi Soe
    Where do you get the idea that there is any ignoring going on? You have been the one who has written statements saying “making them up” about the experiences that people have posted.
    As far as I can see from this site there has been input from people who have different experiences and none have been ignored. Some comments have not been permitted because they were insensitive or offensive but that has been done with consideration and not by ignoring.
    Are you looking for some kind of competition here? i.e. if three people say that they have had bad experiences and then three people say that they have had good experiences then it is OK.
    It does not work that way. Where people have experienced difficult things, including not being believed and threatening reactions (Evidence from this site) these are not cancelled out because they do not happen to everyone.

    Also I am curious about something else that you are presenting. You say that Giles will know the term “Office Worker” as if it is some special SCOAN term only known to people who have been there. This is not the case; an office worker is someone who works in an office. What does it mean to you? Are you presenting yet more evidence of SCOAN talking a language that is separate to SCOAN?

  21. @ian

    The office workers as at the time I left were more male than female, even I myself I’m male- just that my name sounds feminine when shortened, and the duties of that office most means ALWAYS being around him- whether when in the church or at the payer mountain,

    @ madeIine,

    Not at all looking for a competition here, I was only saying that it would be grossly impossible for what bisola said did happen continuously for 10 years with her and “lots of concubines” to have happened with such escaping our notice with such level of closeness -others(including bisola and emma) being disciples at a distance so to say,as a fact; not even an aorta of hint of such even exists there-what exists there is a holy standard of living that makes the place all the more Holy -we lived there, he lived with us, it was our home and we were privileged to be closest to him.

    2. I used the term “office worker”. Because giles can very much relate to it in scoan premises being synonymous with closeness to the prophet – which is the source of the certainty with which I speak on this matter.

    • Apologies, I did assume you were female! I also never realised you had quite such an insider experience at SCOAN. You should be able to answer then, were you ever aware of TB Joshua being behind closed doors with one or more women? I have heard from other who have worked closely with the prophet that he’s often alone with women in his private quarters. Even some “pro” news articles have mentioned his entourage of “beautiful women”. In your experience (others with SCOAN experience, feel free to chip in!), do these observations ring true?

    • Ok so to use a phrase from an earlier post “Office Worker” means – “Closer to Daddy” and only people in the know will understand what that means, but it seems to represent a situation that people within SCOAN desire.

      And Soe – history is full of situations where abuse was going on within families with one child not knowing what was happening with another, or within churches, or schools where people all lived together in closeness but never knew anything about the things that were happening within their immediate community. I sincerely wish that this were not the case but across the world there is plenty of evidence that it has been.

      • the term ‘office worker’ does not refer to ones closeness to the prophet at all – it only refers to the department that people work in, an office worker works in the prophet’s office – that is all…

  22. @ian,

    1.NO!
    2.According to that article those women were following his wife, not him.

    @madeline.
    You’re right, history does give account of such… but in this case

    1.we’re not dealing with children here.

    2.Bisola claimed that there were a “host” of others like her.

    3. She claimed that it happened regularly&continiously for 10 years.

    moreso, laying all else aside, an idle person would have been an unmistakable candidate for these allegations, not a man as busy as T.B Joshua. I was there and i saw it firsthand – how Hard he pushes himself Just to ensure that everyone is attended to -giles attests to this in saying “Far too much depended on Him”-He’s so busy a man that his office is almost never empty of people and disciples clamouring for his attention on one issue or the other- even till around 5am the next day, and at other times, round the clock. it was so much that i really pitied him-he even had NO time for himself, not even an alloted time to get what in my opinion would be “quality rest”-you could describe us as those keeping watch with him at the time-yet we could barely keep up. So you can understand why even the thought that he would have “time” to perpetrate for 10 years, all bisola claimed he did, to me is intolerably absurd. When he retires to his private quaters often just before daybreak, The only way for any disciple to get to talk to him is by phone-and it must be an issue that can’t wait. And anytime between 6 and 8am he was usually down again in the office with the ever teeming crowd at the door of his office-where’s even the time for such as bisola claimed happened continously? If anyone knew the life T.B Joshua lives behind the altar like i did-they wouldn’t even give the allegations of bisola and emma a thought-how much more -a possibility of occurence.

  23. @madeline

    Just to clear this up;

    By “closeness”-i meant- the level of proximity was at a climax, which gave a perfect opportunity to gain a firsthand eyewitness experience of TBJ’S life behind the altar -Not at all meaning a closer relationship with him as radicalised pointed out; becoming a disciple in itself is the closest anyone can get to him.

  24. Regarding the bit radicalised mentioned some ppl receiving money is true.
    When i left the first time,i received $50. However, when i came back I was regarded as someone who had “betrayed the ministry”.

  25. Hi, Madelaine,
    we really can’t compare workers in Tb Joshuas office to members of a Family or school mates.cos most times family members aren’t always together, neither school mates. And to my knowledge of SCOAN, TB Joshua have this workers all around him. He’s always busy and hardly has time to even sleep.if you had visited SCOAN,You would agree with me that even at late 3am,people are still waiting to be attended to.when we visited, i was already asleep at about 2am when came with other number of disciples to adress our group.

    Or are we talking of the disciple meetings that ends early in the morning?

    How could such busy man who doesn’t even have time for himself now engage Himself in such act? Its only people who have no vision that think of such.

    • Hi Doi.
      It is not, as you say “people of no vision” who might think or say things. It is people who are created by and loved by God. The say what they have said because it is the experience that they have had. I have believed the people I have talked to but if for any reason I did not then I would not want them to be dismissed.
      You say that this man is never ever ever on his own, and so if there is some activity that someone considered not glorifying to God, or some activity that seemed not in keeping with the teachings of Jesus there would always be a witness to those actions.
      If this were the case what would the people who are around him do? Who would they talk to about their concerns?

    • yes i have seen them after i wrote that, thanks. however, as i stated above, your answers dont really say anything.

  26. Nanardi, yes they are always with Tb Joshua.and if you have gone through my previous coment they have series of Meeting with The Man of God.where Gods word is being digested.this meeting takes hours.certainly it’s best to receive God’s word from One who can tell you about the visible and invisible world.
    Also moving with T.b Joshua does not stop the disciples from having their personal devotion with God’s word.cos for Example athousand people can’t move with Him at thesame time.and besides office department is not the only dept.in SCOAN.

  27. @ Radicalised

    No I don’t see any other male ministers in the branches anywhere. Most are women that do the ministry. Secondly you still have not answered why there are not foreign ministers ministering. When I observe the preaching. Every time the “preaching” comes out of the book “The Mirror”. Or some version from it. As if there is not any other topic to preach about ? There is never a preaching about how we all can minister, how we all can cast out demons, how we all overcome money problems, how we all can really progress in our needs. And much more. It are always the same people that minister. As if…..nobody else can’t do it. As if other people are just dumb and stupid. Not good enough to do the same. For your information Radicalised:

    1 Peter 2:9-10 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the PEOPLE OF GOD: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

    And you know that that is so, because it is only a “group” that is allowed to do ministry, no others. No foreign input, no nothing. The same ones again and again. As if… Radicalised you ain’t and are anyone else special, no one is. You are just the same like anyone else is. Just a mere man. Period. Get over it. Nor is Scoan a special ministry only for special elite. Get over it. You all are NOT the only one’s that are filled with the Holy Spirit… if you are, is still debatable. There are millions more that are in this world everywhere. I really begin to dislike it that you lot shackle people down on their chairs and telling them you are an elite, because you are not.

    Sorry, but I had to get that off my chest. I am kind of tired seeing other people being humiliated by other mere human beings thinking they are the only one’s that are and can minister with a bottle of water in their hand. How about old fashioned laying of hands. It’s what Jesus, disciples and elders did. Do like wise. Get off from the paraphernalia Holy Spirit bottle water that is not in any way or form traceable or proven if it is from the Holy Spirit.

  28. @ Radicalised
    Regarding video footage of children in Scoan, Lagos singing songs in praise of TB Joshua,
    this exists from the Channel 4 documentary when Robert Beckford was shown round with his film crew in 2003/4.
    I’ve just re-watched it and the words are as follows:

    “The Synagogue Church is a training ground, where the Holy Spirit is flowing, through his anointed servant TB Joshua, the man of God. (Repeat)
    Everything about it is a part of our lives. Everything about him is good.”

  29. @madeline

    From the looks of things, this issue is just about wrapped up, I myself knew bisola personally while in scoan-where she claimed her 10 long years of abuse took place, bisola was plump back then and fair skinned, her colour was sparkling (obviously due to the grace of God in the life of tbj in scoan) but after she left and I saw her on that video they made, she was looking so lean and impoverished,that it took me time to actually accept it was her, I was appalled by how she looked, knowing fully well her former state, she is now obviously a shadow of her original self -now that her alleged abuse has stopped. then she used to work in the studio, where most of the video editing and other computer works are done for emmanuel tv, she was also at the same time coordinating and directing some programmes for the church channel – she rarely even gets to see the prophet-talk more of spending time alone with him-this also means that these allegations don’t have even the slimmest possibility of occurrence or better put a zero probability, yet you still seem to believe a lot in her story hence, I have a few questions for you and anyone else who believes their story;

    (Continued in next post)

  30. @madeline

    ( continued from the earlier post)

    1. If you were a judge in the court of Law, and this case was brought before you,with all the comments on this site as evidences for or against … who would you judge in favour of between the two parties?

    2. Are you saying that it is impossible for bisola and emma to have lied against tbj?

    3. Is the strength of character and integrity of bisola so much in check against that of Tbj that it merits your seemingly unwavering trust in her story?

    4.It was said somewhere on this site that truth can stand scrutiny, the bible also says the first to present a case always seems right till another comes and questions him, don’t you think it strange that bisola and emma have not presented themselves for such as the gravity of her allegations demand?

    5.No one knows where a shoe pinches better that he who wears it, If at all something like that were truly happening, don’t you think Tbj’s wife would have been the first to sound the alarm? Why then would she speak with so much confidence in tbj in the article ian quoted above, which she concluding by saying” she fights no special battles to keep her husband” if she heard and even knew that those allegations had even the slightest truth?

    Would very much like to hear your answer!

  31. @Soe

    The role of an impartial judge is to consider all sides of a situation.
    The legal system has to consider that TBJ may have done what has been said or maybe he has not.
    The people might be telling exactly what they have experienced or they might be saying something that did not really happen.

    Soe, neither you or I have displayed an impartial position on this site so I cannot put myself into the position of the legal system.
    However I have read the information that has been written here but I am not convinced by it.

    The argument is that it would not be possible for TBJ to spend time alone with a female disciple because he is always surrounded by people.
    However I know from this site that the people who are around him revere him highly and get very defensive if anything is said against him. Would they question anything that happened either in or out of the office? What would happen to them if they did question any actions?
    Nothing that has been said about going to the local police has convinced me that this would be a genuine possibility for people who are in a vulnerable and powerless situation. I am aware that you had the freedom to exit SCOAN but even you said that TBJ in his role as guardian should be aware of your movements. Just consider how difficult it would be to actually do in the circumstances.

    What I would hope to see from the people vehemently defending the man who they describe as showing characteristics of Jesus, is a compassion and concern for the people who have been part of their church family. What I have seen from the input on this site is hostility.

    Regarding your question 2:
    It is possible that people might lie against TBJ just as it is possible that TBJ has behaved in a way that is damaging to people and is not glorifying to God.

    Regarding your question 3:
    I do not know Bisola. I have directly heard the accounts of two people and I have believed them. By speaking about what happened they have showed great courage and they did indeed display strength of character and integrity.

    Regarding your question 4:
    I do not think it strange that the people are careful about how they talk of their experiences. You can see from this site that the mere mention of the word abuse generated a very negative reaction. When Claire mentioned her genuine and justified sadness at the loss of her friend, you responded to her saying “are you making it up?”
    Not being believed is part of an abusive situation and to know that what you say will not be believed makes if a difficult task to speak out.

    Regarding your question 5:
    Wives do not always know what their husbands are doing.

    • @Soe. As previous posts and commenters have pointed out – the one indisputable fact is that these allegations exist, and they are serious. Until they are thoroughly and independently investigated they will always be a dark cloud over TB Joshua’s ministry.

  32. @ Ian,

    Point 6 is very true: “Total disinterest in people if they turned out to not have been healed”

    Thanks for pointing it out. Why is it that this is so ? I know there were several people THAT I knew were NOT healed. They wanted to get back in the healing line. This was NOT allowed. Absolutely not. This I heard first hand from the one that were sick. What I understood was you get 7 days and if you are not healed you have to go home, you can’t stay and go again for healing. I even corresponded with some of them afterwards because I asked for their e-mail addresses. Some might even have died because I don’t get from some any replies anymore. I knew they had terminal diseases.

    Could someone explain to me that when their is preaching there is this constant hammering keep believing, but when one wants to step back in the healing line (Lagos) it’s not allowed.

    My personal view is, if it is the Grace of God working, why not giving one a second, third chance ? Or at least give a explanation why this cannot happen again (prayerline). Or what excuse is there for not doing this ?

    I am not sure about the branches this is the case. But I know it from the Head Quarters this is so. I am personal witness about this.

    Can someone tell me what on earth this is about ?

  33. @ Radicalised,

    “if then you say that you cannot know his character, then why are you making assumptions purely based on what you have heard from a few isolated individuals?”

    Few isolated individuals. The bible says that if it were possible (which means the few you indicate) cannot be deceived, most will be. Based upon: Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    if it is that deceptive that even the very elect are at a challenge HOW much more who are ignorant by it. Get a grip Radicalised. I will NOT be deceived by your smoothness of chat. I will line up your expressions to the word of God and you were found wanting big time.

    Secondly I would ask you to read II Thessalonians 2 over and over again, until your spiritual eyes go open.

  34. @madeline,

    Thanks for your response,

    I respect the fact that you are entitled to your opinion-which in your case seems to assume the worst case scenario, but if you were to objectively consider the allegations without prejudice or pre-conceived notions, you yourself would agree with me that the prospects of them not happening by far outweigh the prospects that they did.

    2. From the b o b video, bisola clearly is a woman of questionable character which is sort of a shaky foundation for your seemingly unwavering trust in her- if you ask me.

    3. plus you assume too little of tbj’s wife that she wouldn’t know if any of such were really taking place- even with a host of concubines as bisola said, and you didn’t also consider that they live and work under the same roof unlike conventional couples that may live and work far apart from each other.

    in the end as ian said its kind of like a dark cloud, a stumbling block that those who would want to visit scoan must overcome should they come across it, and its clear that many have, and many still will- perhaps even you inclusive, but the fact is scoan still remains a ministry of hope for millions around the world and as jenson once said she couldn’t find any other like it on earth – I guess such things as bisola’s allegations cannot be helped, especially when you choose to mentor people in the way tbj does- it sort of comes with the package, I mean, the same people you may need to succeed in one area may end up causing you pain in another- just as the same judas helping in Jesus ministry’s finances, later became a source of pain to Jesus- its a risk involved in mentoring people-which I believes makes it the most dangerous aspect of ministry little wonder why nearly everyone avoids that area.

    Cheers*

  35. @Soe
    Whoah
    Why are you continuing to mention Bisola as I have said that I do not know her?

    I am not assuming the worst case scenario I have spoken to people who have told me what happened. There is no assumption there at all. When replying to you I did consider the information that I have read here but I cannot dismiss what I have been told.
    I cannot just say that these people are “of questionable character” because THEY ARE NOT.
    So you could say that I have an unwavering trust in the people who have talked to me and yes I have. They have earned that trust.

    I find that I am repeating myself over and over here.
    In general – If a person has experienced any form of abuse whether sexual or an emotional manipulation or being bullied or being treated with violence and it is implied that they were completely to blame and they are lying about what has happened – that is part of the abuse.

    I will repeat a question that I have now asked more than once
    If a disciple in SCOAN were to feel that there was something happening that they were unhappy with what would happen if they speak to someone about it?

    • @ Madeline

      how I really wish you could spend some time in Scoan to see the way tbj relates with his people there, there’s so much freedom of expression, so much fun, laughter and joy all in a holy atmosphere that instills in us christs consciousness. then I was so free with him that I could tell him anything, and I did tell him things about myself that even my parents never knew, an atmosphere of fear would never afford me such, in the bob video, Paul agomoh also testified to this extraordinary relationship tbj has with his people amongst some pilgrims before he went on his all out offensive, so in direct answer to your question, we are always free to talk to him about our concerns, and if we do not still agree with the system of things, we are still very much at liberty to leave while remaining friends of the ministry,discipleship is not neither by force nor for everyone.

      2. I don’t see how not being believed becomes abuse when even Jesus himself said “do not believe me unless I do what my father does” -John 10:37. What he did like his father became proof that he was from God. – he was saying that not being believed would clearly be justified without necessary proof.

      3. You emphatically stated that you don’t know bisola, plus you likely have never visited Scoan talk more of having an insider experience, neither do you know TB Joshua personally, so you only testify to what you heard from bisola- yet you hold on to it so strong and would not dismiss it upon how very little you know of the parties involved, I testify as a first-hand witness to all of the above, so, while you are entitled to your opinion on this issue- I hope its also clear to you that I have a testimony weightier than yours.

      4. with the way you speak so trutsfully of bisola, I wonder if you’ve really watched the bob video – and even wonder more how such a person could earn even an ounce of your trust not to mention all of it.ime in Scoan to see the way tbj relates with his people there, there’s so much freedom of expression, so much fun, laughter and joy all in a holy atmosphere that instills in us christs consciousness. then I was so free with him that I could tell him anything, and I did tell him things about myself that even my parents never knew, an atmosphere of fear would never afford me such, in the bob video, Paul agomoh also testified to this extraordinary relationship tbj has with his people amongst some pilgrims before he went on his all out offensive, so in direct answer to your question, we are always free to talk to him about our concerns, and if we do not still agree with the system of things, we are still very much at liberty to leave while remaining friends of the ministry,discipleship is not neither by force nor for everyone.

      2. I don’t see how not being believed becomes abuse when even Jesus himself said “do not believe me unless I do what my father does” -John 10:37. What he did like his father became proof that he was from God. – he was saying that not being believed would clearly be justified without necessary proof.

      3. You emphatically stated that you don’t know bisola, plus you likely have never visited Scoan talk more of having an insider experience, neither do you know TB Joshua personally, so you only testify to what you heard from bisola- yet you hold on to it so strong and would not dismiss it upon how very little you know of the parties involved, I testify as a first-hand witness to all of the above, so, while you are entitled to your opinion on this issue- I hope its also clear to you that I have a testimony weightier than yours.

      4. with the way you speak so trutsfully of bisola, I wonder if you’ve really watched the bob video – and even wonder more how such a person could earn even an ounce of your trust not to mention all of it.

      • I have heard nothing from Bisola as I do not know her, and I have not watched the videos that are mentioned.

      • Not sure what you’re struggling to get here Soe. Madelaine has made it quite clear she’s spoken to people who she knows well and trusts, she has also said that she knows nothing about Bisola! It seems clear to me that she’s speaking about someone totally different, so any of your character assassinating of Bisola is quite irrelevant!

      • “how I really wish you could spend some time in Scoan to see the way tbj relates with his people there, there’s so much freedom of expression, so much fun, laughter and joy all in a holy atmosphere that instills in us christs consciousness.”

        Soe, I’ve no doubt that there is joy, fun and laughter in SCOAN. Unfortunately, just because a great time is being had by all doesn’t mean what’s going on is good. Check out the first two minutes of this video of Jim Jones and his People’s Temple::

        Can you see the joy, happiness and sense of belonging in the people’s faces? I’m not saying that TB Joshua is in the same league as Jim Jones. But the exhilaration, happiness and joy you’ve experienced in SCOAN shouldn’t blind you to things that cause concern.

        Also, please take the time to read comments before replying- your bizarre insistence that Madeline “speaks trustfully” about Bisola (when she has made very clear she is speaking from personal experience of her own friends and families and has NO opinion of Bisola) is starting to make you look downright unhinged and very hard to take seriously.

  36. @ Ian and someone

    Now isn’t this is a problem, I don’t know why its difficult for you guys to relate to things as simple as this Until I begin to quote scripture upon scripture, and even when I do you refer to it as “scripture twisting”, You both should realize that tbj didn’t take this as a personal challenge but one against God Almighty – the author of his calling, just as For Christ did not please himself, but as it is written, “The reproaches of those who reproached you fell on me. ” – Romans 15:3.

    Now this indeed calls for wisdom on your parts- We must realize the deeper implications of our actions to Gods Holy servants, – that saying or doing anything against those acting on Christs behalf is tantamount to doing same to God, they may have flesh and blood just as we have- yet we must not forget that though peter was just a human being, when ananias and saphirra lied to him he told them they had lied to God not him- and their sudden death proved Peters words to be true – I guess if you were in that church service you would accuse peter of claiming to be God, good thing the early Christians understood the above.

    you both being Christians I believe should know that these things were not just documented for record sake but also as a warning that would guide us in our dealings with God’s Holy servants, prophets and apostles.
    t for you guys to relate to things as simple as this Until I begin to quote scripture upon scripture, and even when I do you refer to it as “scripture twisting”, You both should realize that tbj didn’t take this as a personal challenge but one against God Almighty – the author of his calling, just as For Christ did not please himself, but as it is written, “The reproaches of those who reproached you fell on me. ” – Romans 15:3.

    Now this indeed calls for wisdom on your parts- We must realize the deeper implications of our actions to Gods Holy servants, – that saying or doing anything against those acting on Christs behalf is tantamount to doing same to God, they may have flesh and blood just as we have- yet we must not forget that though peter was just a human being, when ananias and saphirra lied to him he told them they had lied to God not him- and their sudden death proved Peters words to be true – I guess if you were in that church service you would accuse peter of claiming to be God, good thing the early Christians understood the above.

    you both being Christians I believe should know that these things were not just documented for record sake but also as a warning that would guide us in our dealings with God’s Holy servants, prophets and apostles.

    • I don’t understand most of what you’re saying…

      As for the few bits that do make sense…

      As I’ve said before in my posts – the problem is that you believe, with every fibre of your being, that TBJ is some sort of prophet or whatever. I don’t. Maybe a bad fortune teller or charlatan, but not a man of God. You don’t seem to even consider the possibility that he is not perfect.

      Your arguments are really poor and uninformed. I am not concerned about my actions against God’s servants if I don’t believe they are servants of God. Do you understand this? Not for a minute do I believe it is all well at SCOAN as you are trying to let us believe. Even if he is a ‘man of God’ then I would urge you to consider a different point of view (‘Touch not my anointed’.. http://www.gospelassemblyfree.com/facts/anointed.htm)

      Your and your master’s definition of blasphemy is not consistent with the Biblical definition.

      Do you understand how hypocritical you are if you say we should not judge, and yet your master (TBJ) judges these people who dare to stand up to him? The BOB videos are nothing but vengeful propaganda. There is not a hint of love.

      In terms of ‘twisting Scripture’. The reason I (we) say that you are twisting Scripture is because there is a generally accepted interpretation of Scripture. Your application to the verses you quote falls, in general (though not always), outside this interpretation. I’ve pointed to those in previous posts. I won’t go into this again.

      Back to the subject of abuse… One thing we have neglected (to an extent) to discuss is the spiritual abuse at the hands of TB Joshua.

      I found this VERY well written article about spiritual abuse.

      http://www.charismatic-captivation.com/?p=5

      I can see numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (WOW), 6 (Bisola vids and many other examples), 7, 8, 9 (his $15 million), 12, 13 (again Bisola vids), 14 (just have to look at Soe and Radicalised arguments), 15, 16, 17 (Jackpot!), 18 (wise men and junior prophets etc), 19 (sounds familiar), 20 (nobody seems to know if they are saved), 21 (so many stories on this site about this), 22 (Giles – you’ve seen this many times, haven’t you?), 23 (witnessed this myself), 24, 25 (experienced this myself), 26 (experienced this myself), 27, 28 (where is the love?), 29 (i.e. TBJ tells you whether and who you can marry), 31 (Wow x3!, Jackpot again – beware of those bad, bad blasphemers!), 32, 33 directly apply to TB Joshua.

      Soe & Radicalised – you are a part of the above. All I can ask you is to (as in the article) run from your captor and rush into the arms of Jesus. “He whom the Son sets free is free indeed”…

    • Did God say Himself that they are Holy Servants ? How many have been going against this already and are still alive ? Don’t even try to make it look Holier than thou, God is not mocked. I can say that I am under the Hand of God and God has maintained me for many many years even though I have spoken out against false moves of something that I have seen it does NOT give the fruit of the Holy Spirit what my plumb line. I have tested the spirits and I have aligned them against the word of God and I found them wanting, the writing is on the wall. For God has not given me a spirit of fear but of love, power and a sound mind. God has rewarded me over the years for me doing so and I don’t fear any intimidation from a mere human. I will however Submit myself unto God and resist the devil and he shall flee from me and stand my ground. It has always be the case, I thank God for that. Jesus is Lord !

  37. @ Ian and tbjoshuawatch

    Madeline made no reference to bisola, is referring to. Someone different, and had No opinion of bisola? Is this really true?

    @ Madeline
    Please if you’re reading this I would want you to clearly affirm it, because as far as I know, the only two major characters I know behind these allegations are bisola and emma, with bisola taking the lead with the widespread story of her” alleged abuse” through their video , yet I would really want a confirmation of this from you, and if you say she’s not a subject of this discussion, who then are we discussing about here? Or better said the two people you listened to?

    • Soe
      You have written several long comments assassinating Bisola’s character. However, this is irrelevant to the many people who know others abused by TB Joshua, others who have become obsessed with TB Joshua and cut off links with friends and family, others who have been disciples but left after realising that SCOAN is a cult.

      I’m sure as a disciple you know very well that many more people than Emma and Bisola have alleged abuse. On this blog, Emma, Gareth, Graham (these three are pseudonyms, and with good reason considering the personal attacks that have cropped up in the comments here, mostly unpublished), Giles and Dr Hardaker are the ex-disciples and ex-supporters who have spoken out against TB Joshua’s abuse of power. Of course not all have personal experience of sexual abuse but all agree that SCOAN is a cult and the conditions for potential abuse are all there. Anneka is another British woman who publicly alleged abuse- there’s several other testimonies of abuse on this post:
      https://tbjoshuawatch.wordpress.com/2011/01/15/tb-joshua-abuse-allegations-1/

    • Brief reply – In what way was it not clear when I said that I did not know Bisola? But just for complete clarity. I do not know Bisola, I have not spoken with Bisola therefore I can make no comment regarding Bisola. It is as you say other people who I have spoken to but – do you really think that I will say their names? I have seen how you write about people you do not believe.

  38. @ someone,

    Sorry,I didn’t know you did not see tbj as a man of God at all and I understand you better now- yet It is noteworthy to mention that majority of Scoan members today and many of the pilgrims that flock in to Scoan from across the world were once like You, and believed even worse things about tbj than you do now, but today they’re convinced in their own mind of the genuineness of his calling, even many who while claiming he’s not a MOG take heed and adhere to the warnings in his prophecies to the world -already a sort of belief if you ask me.

    You say u don’t believe Tbj, but if he tells you not to enter a plane you were about to enter because it would crash in the air would you still enter that same plane?
    Yes or no?

    2. you seem to be trying to defeat the ideology of Scoan, but the only way to defeat an idea is to propound another- its very easy to say run, leave Scoan, tbj is this and that, but then what alternative solution can you provide to the hurting souls that troop into Scoan in their thousands? What help will you be able to give to the thousands of sick and afflicted people who go to Scoan because their problem has gone beyond the power of nature? You would have to state this for your argument to sound informed.

  39. I don’t believe in your assertion that the majority of people who ‘flock to SCOAN’ were once like me. I cannot believe that anyone in their right mind will spend money to make a ‘pilgrimage’ (as you call it) if they weren’t already convinced. This does not make sense at all. I once spent money on SCOAN because I was convinced – not anymore. The saying is true – ‘you put your money where your mouth is’.

    “You say u don’t believe Tbj, but if he tells you not to enter a plane you were about to enter because it would crash in the air would you still enter that same plane?
    Yes or no?”

    YES (see – this is how its done). But to elaborate – I would not listen to him in the first place as I will not listen to council where I am convinced the source is not the Holy Spirit. Is that clear enough? If I was forced to hear it I would say that God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of love, power and a sound mind. There is more to this answer though, but I will leave it at that for now.

    2. Yes – I am propounding another ideology – the Christian one… where we are all equal in the sight of God (Jesus is our mediator – not TBJ), that I don’t have to travel to Lagos to experience a move of God – but that the move of God is in my life – right here, right now…

    “but then what alternative solution can you provide to the hurting souls that troop into Scoan in their thousands”. Tell them to turn to Jesus for their solution.

    “What help will you be able to give to the thousands of sick and afflicted people who go to Scoan because their problem has gone beyond the power of nature? “. Easy again – Jesus.

    The world does not need TBJ, but Jesus.

    Here is my question to you… Is your Jesus big enough to look after all those SCOAN souls without the mediation of TBJ?

  40. Pingback: Why do the accusers of TB Joshua take so long to tell their stories? « TB Joshua Watch

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