A TB Joshua worship song: everything about him is good?

A couple of weeks ago a commenter mentioned a video showing children at SCOAN singing a song of praise to TB Joshua. Some disciples quickly denied that this ever happened, but another commenter had the video and kindly sent it in. Here is a clip of the “TB Joshua Worship Song”.

The lyrics are as follows:

The Synagogue Church is a training ground,
where the holy spirit is flowing
through his anointed servant TB Joshua
The Man of God

Everything about it is part of our lives
Everything about him is good

Is there any other church in the world where the pastor is worshiped in such a way?

32 thoughts on “A TB Joshua worship song: everything about him is good?

  1. I actually reserved my comment when this issue appeared under the previous topic post, but since its been deemed fit to appear as a topic, I might as well let it out- Now, I’ll comment here as one with in depth knowledge into the ministry of scoan, and one who has keenly and objectively observing the ministry for 14 years now.
    As can be seen in the above lyrics-
    the word “IT” there un arguably refers to the church,

    And as for the statement

    “everything about him is good”

    Is everything about the Holyspirit not good? As seen also in the LYRICS you yourselves quoted- the word “Him” in the lyrics does not in anyway explicitly refer to the prophet, just as the song itself clearly gives credence to the Holyspirit! And refers the prophet himself as a vessel!

    As far as I’m concerned this song was JUST A NURSERY RHYME way back then in the sunday school to keep the purpose of the ministry in the forefront of the minds of the children and nothing more.

    Even without fore knowledge of the ministry There’s no way I’d believe such, “a TB Joshua worship song?” come on! – nothing could be more ridiculous – unless I didn’t know the man of God better – how humble and unassuming he is, even all the finery and opulence of His ministry cannot be seen around him, many times we’ve seen him kneeling to those who tried to kneel to him, either that or he rebukes them NOT to kneel to him- how would somebody with a god-complex do that?

    During a humanitarian documentary we saw him carry bags of rice on his head the way the hired men and workers did, during the building of the cathedral and any construction work at the church, we See him carrying mortar and concrete in head pans on his head, and not only that- so humble was he in character that he was busy cleaning the toilets and sewers of the church everyday for three years while being the overseer of Scoan- what other better form of humility can a man of his integrity possibly show? – would someone who saw himself as a god be worshipped stoop so low to humble himself in this manner? Pride in itself wouldn’t allow this, talk more of a god-complex.

    In all my years in scoan till today, I’ve never seen TB Joshua demand even as much as a “GREETING” talk more of “WORSHIP” and I’m yet to see any man of God in his league with such Level of humility that STOOPS.

    • Soe,
      There is a term in literature and movie making called ‘suspension of disbelief’. I.e. if you go to see a movie, say The Lion King, you suspend your belief that animals can’t talk in order to enjoy the movie.
      If you require us to belief that the ‘him’ refers to anything other than TBJ then you require us to suspend all disbelief. Like watching a movie, or reading a book, we will have to ignore reality.
      What am I saying, Soe? It is obvious to me that you’ve suspended disbelief for the time you’ve been involved in SCOAN (just like any good cult member will do).
      This video is one of the most disturbing things I’ve seen in a long time. Even more disturbing is your attempt to redeem TBJ. It is not possible to take you seriously.

    • Come on Soe, the verse has two subjects, an “it” (The Synagogue Church) and a “him” (TB Joshua, the Man of God). The refrain also has two subjects, an “it” which we both agree means the church, and a “him” – you expect us to believe that this has magically become about the Holy Spirit? Suspending disbelief indeed!

      Regardless of the subject of the “him” line, how do you justify the line about the Holy Spirit flowing through TB Joshua? Sounds very much like they’re describing him as a mediator. What new testament justification can you give for a man being the means to the Holy Spirit flowing?

  2. @ ian

    regarding the Holy Spirit flowing through somebody
    John 7:37-39
    On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.

    Colossians 1:29
    To this end I strenuously contend with all the energy Christ so powerfully works in me.

    of course the Holy Spirit works through believers

    how else do you think someone is healed when someone else prays for them in the name of Jesus? it is through the Holy Spirit

    John 14:16-17
    And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

    apart from that a worship song is sung to someone in adoration of that person or deity, this song is not addressed to tb joshua – it is about the synagogue church as a ministry – and it mentions that the holy spirit is flowing through tb joshua.

    and like soe said, the last thing tb joshua would want or condone is people worshiping him. he constantly refers people to Jesus and when people kneel down (out of respect for him) he will always tell them to stand up – if he was so high and mighty and arrogant and proud why would he continually humble himself and come down to peoples level (not just for show or on the tv) but all the time

    • You misunderstood my point, although I admit I could have made it clearer. Yes I agree, the Holy Spirit does work through believers, but it comes to us through or because of the atoning sacrifice of Christ and it is available equally to all believers. The song states that it is through TB Joshua that the Holy Spirit comes “…the holy spirit is flowing, through his anointed servant…”. This makes it quite clear that the Holy Spirit flowing is due to the presence of TB Joshua. This is what is deeply unbiblical, it puts him in a Christ like position elevated above all other believers – something I believe SCOAN and his followers are constantly guilty of doing.

      You say that “the last thing TB Joshua would condone is people worshiping him”, but you don’t address the line “everything about him is good”. Again, this line gives him a Christ like status. Nothing about him is good, nothing about me is good, nothing about you is good – everything about Christ is good, and if we believe in him we become good like him, but not of our own merit, but because of the undeserved righteousness of Christ that God now counts as ours. That line cannot truthfully be sung about any man except Christ.

  3. @ Ian

    You said:
    ” The song states that it is through TB Joshua that the Holy Spirit comes “…the holy spirit is flowing, through his anointed servant…”. This makes it quite clear that the Holy Spirit flowing is due to the presence of TB Joshua. This is what is deeply unbiblical, it puts him in a Christ like position elevated above all other believers”

    I am appalled by your cynical disposition that seems to be veiling your eyes from a more than obvious truth – The song is clear about it all in regarding to TBJ as “A SERVANT”

    ” And that in Scoan- (NOT in the whole world) TBJ is the channel through which God is changing lives through the holy spirit”- which is a function of his duty as the OVERSEER of Scoan-and of course he must be elevated in terms of spiritual gifts above his people to be able to function in the office God has given him or would you rather have all the members become overseers to equate their status? Your interpretation of this song clearly shows Your pattern of thinking as just too cynical that just about anything TBJ does is wrong, doesent the man have even a good side in your judgement?!

    Which of the words of that song really portrays worship of TB Joshua If I may ask???

    Can anyone see that there’s just no issue here?

    What of the prophets display of humility I gave examples of above that has so far to my knowledge not been matched by any other- you’ve said nothing regarding that. But choose to hold on to this song-

    As for the second issue you raised: “everything about him is good” if that refers to him – SO WHAT?

    SERIOUSLY, Even if I did claim that:
    “everything about you (Ian) was good”

    -How does that automatically
    translate to me worshipping you?

    there is not even a hint of indication there that refers to a deity or god-
    Its just a commendation and nothing more- perhaps exaggerated in your opinion; but certainly doesn’t and shouldn’t mean WORSHIP to you. We commend people daily when they prove themselves worthy- Honours are conferred on many people for attributes of God like justice, truth, honesty etc- in similar cynicism to yours, we could as well say they have claimed for themselves honour belonging to God.

    I maintain here that there’s nothing wrong in commending a man of God who has so distinguished himself amongst others. I would commend him more honourably in a more offensive way to you if was there- But that as well wouldn’t be an issue,- it would have been an issue if we have heard such from his own lips, not otherwise as it says: Let another praise you, and not your own mouth; a stranger, and not your own lips. – Proverbs 27:2

    @ Radicalised,
    Thanks for replying Ian- (the issue of the spirit flowing) you sure nailed it there! I guess living outside the truth would eventually prevent one from believing even the simplest of truths!

    • TBJ is the channel through which God is changing lives through the holy spirit”- which is a function of his duty as the OVERSEER of Scoan-and of course he must be elevated in terms of spiritual gifts above his people to be able to function in the office God has given him or would you rather have all the members become overseers to equate their status?

      We’re so far off on this it’s not even worth discussing. If you want to know more about where I’m coming from, google the doctrine of the “Priesthood of all believers”. I’m not saying I don’t believe in leaders in the church, but spiritually they are equal to any other believers. Let me ask you this quick question – do you believe TB Joshua is spiritually superior to you? If the answer is yes, can you name someone who you think is a spiritual equal to TB Joshua?

      SERIOUSLY, Even if I did claim that:
      “everything about you (Ian) was good”

      -How does that automatically
      translate to me worshipping you?

      This would depend on context. If you said this as a one off misguided statement, it wouldn’t really mean anything. If you were constantly singing it to me, I’d have a big problem with it! If I were your Pastor and you taught the sunday school kids to sing that, I would probably react as Paul and Barnabus did in Acts 14 “[they] tore their garments and rushed out into the crowd, crying out, 15 “Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men, of like nature with you, and we bring you good news, that you should turn from these vain things to a living God”.

      Let’s put this in a simple equation: Everything about him is good = Nothing about him is wrong = He is perfect = He is God! Of course there is nothing wrong with commending someone, but if commending them is attributing them with qualities only possessed by God (perfection), then there is something very wrong about it!

      • @ Ian

        As for whether TBJ is spiritually superior to Me? My answer is a LOUD and FIRM Yeeeeesssss! And by faaaaaaarrrrrr, if I might add, not only because of the miracles I see wrought through him, but also because of his life behind the altar which I have observed firsthand that made me see a man Who is completely surrendered to the will of the ONE who sent him, without having in reality, a life or time he could call his own!

        As for who is spiritually equal to him- how would I know something like that?, how could I speak for everyone and all the ministers of God in the world- I only know of myself as it is- its left for others to know themselves- Whether they’re his equals or not- but one thing I know is that the bible teaches us to appreciate that WE ARE NOT EQUALLY COMMISSIONED OR GIFTED:

        And God has appointed in the church FIRST apostles, SECOND prophets, THIRD teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. – I Corinthians 12:28,

        Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? – I Corinthians 12:29,

        But even at that we need one another because nothing God makes is a whole in itself. A tree cannot make a forest. When we say the ” synagogue Church of All Nations”, it’s the vision God gave to TBJ, that the church will touch all the world. We have ministers of God that the Lord is using to fulfill that promise. But the Word of God is like a house. Some are sent to lay the foundation, some are sent to lay the bricks, some come to roof and plaster the house. So, no single person can build a house. Everybody needs to know his own portion in the assignment. Just as Paul says: I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. – I Corinthians 3:6.

        He who plants and he who waters are one, and each will receive his wages according to his labor. – I Corinthians 3:8

        So I very much believe without a doubt that this is the portion given to TBJ. And he’ll carry it to the whole world.

      • Wow… you really do consider him some kind of demi-god don’t you? I appreciate the clear, frank reply though.

    • “And God has appointed in the church FIRST apostles, SECOND prophets, THIRD teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. – I Corinthians 12:28,”

      Wrong again.

      It is the five fold ministry which is: EPHESIANS 4:11-13 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

      Vs.12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

      Vs.13 Till we ALL come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the MEASURE of the stature of the FULLNESS of Christ.

      So where is T. B. Joshua superior mentioned there ? It says ALL, not him alone. We all can do these things if we have received the Holy Spirit. So it is a lie.

      Secondly, I do not accept everything that T. B. Joshua does what you SOE or anyone claim is from the Holy Spirit. This is downright a lie, because, the testimonies of Giles, Gareth, Madeleine, Paul, Kyode and many many others prove (there are hundreds online that say so) that he does not hear what God is telling him to do, heal, prophesy at all times. So clearly he is failing in this, that means again when you write him with a Who with a capital letter is downright idolatry. He is not a demi-god, nor a god, nor an angel, nor any other celestial being, he is just a man, a sinner, someone that will die like anyone else.

      I think it is sick, depraved, reprobate that you worship him as the one and only that touches the entire world while ALREADY, Jesus and the Holy Spirit have done this all by Their own. There is nothing special about T. B. Joshua besides any other human being. Nowhere you see him be able to heal leprosy, legs that grow on, eyes that return in their sockets, restore cut off ears, to find Gaddafi and where he is hiding and tell it to the world, feed 5000 and 4000 with some loaves and fish or even to stop a hurricane Irene on it’s way. So eh, nothing special is it now ? If you compare to Jesus what He did, T. B. Joshua is just a little kid.

      • To add:

        Vs.12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
        Vs.13 Till we ALL come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the MEASURE of the stature of the FULLNESS of Christ.

        None of this is done in SCOAN. It’s clearly a family affair and an internal matter. Nobody is allowed to the inner circle without vetting extensively or even to minister from outside, the enforcing of to pay your tithes (unbiblical and a matter of the law (which causes death) instead of the heart and love for God and His body), your extensive offerings, give all your time, all your resources, all your beliefs even if they are sound by themselves. You can’t ask any difficult questions or question why some are not healed, delivered. Why everything looks like it are demons that have to come out at any time when “ministry” takes place. The refusal to do any Communion, Baptism, or other matters that Jesus commanded as part of application of the four-square gospel. Water used as dispensing power at will. Unbiblical in it’s application in continuum and used as advertisement for attracting people with deep problems and displaying them to the world in shameful conditions on the floor. Jesus came to get the animal out of us and restore us to His Spirit man, but the water makes them look like an animal when applied and still look the same when finished only claiming they are light. No further verification by any independent organisation after 1 year, whether financially prospering, still in same health from before, advanced in scriptural sound doctrine and many more.

  4. @ Ian,

    I said that before to Soe, but he is deaf in that perspective not understanding anything of what…….. “You also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God THROUGH Jesus Christ … But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light” (1 Peter 2:5-9).

    REALLY REALLY Means. God uses even the simplest, dumbest person if necessary, all are anointed if they have received the Holy Spirit.

    Soe and probably anyone in SCOAN thinks that only T. B. Joshua and all he has assigned for minister are able to do it.

    Because of the Holy Spirit anyone and everyone can do it TODAY. If God wants to heal through me or anyone else, or wants me or anyone else to deliver someone from demonic powers or possession, or do the miraculous, He can do it and He just does do that. And definitely if God is glorified through it. It has happened and it will continue to happen. It’s downright arrogant to say that it only would work through T. B. Joshua and his water bottles or other mediums. Not so humble after all, I suppose. With all that I can establish and settle once and for all, that T. B. Joshua is not superior to me, Ian, Madeleine, Gareth, Giles, or anyone else.

  5. @ Soe,

    “What of the prophets display of humility I gave examples of above that has so far to my knowledge not been matched by any other- you’ve said nothing regarding that.”

    Soe, Soe, can you please study this thoroughly and then write again what it says here:

    Matthew 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

    Luke 9:25, Mark 8:36

    God forbid: yea, let God be true, but EVERY man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

    What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are ALL under sin; As it is written, There is NONE righteous, no, not ONE:There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are ALL gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not ONE.

    Romans 3:4 and 9-12

    Tell us SOE, ONCE AND FOR ALL, IS T. B. Joshua a SINNER ! Yes or No ! You have said nothing regarding that from ever since we asked you.

  6. @Nanardi,

    My answer to your question as to whether tbj is a sinner or not, is the same the blind man gave to the pharisees:

    “We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if anyone is a worshipper of God and does his will, God listens to him. – John 9:31; If this man were not from God, he could do nothing. ” – John 9:33.

    The story of evangelist ndeanco who was rescued from ritualists is enough to convince even the worst Thomas- He had even like you concluded that the man was a magician and had vowed that he would NEVER even cross the street of The SCOAN for fear of the magical powers that were reportedly inside : here is a part of his account in the deep forest:

    According to him; he discovered young ladies that were impregnated there, cared for till they delivered their babies and then the babies were pounded in a mortar with their placenta-also there was a continual flow of people who were brought into the shrine in bus loads every 45 minutes. There were about 30 buses in total that were routinely sent out on their deadly missions. all these people were being killed in his presence with machetes like animals. He saw people being slaughtered, their heads severed from their
    body and rolling on the ground – When it was his turn to be slaughtered, they asked him to say his last prayer. In the moment of his utter desperation, he heard a voice saying, “Call the God of T.B. Joshua”. He startled, shocked at the revelation as he had never worshipped in the church of T.B. Joshua during the nine years he had lived in Lagos. But the voice came, “Call the God of TB Joshua!” As he did so, the man who was about to kill him dropped the sword and a mighty wind descended upon the shrine, blew its coverings away, leaving it naked stripping the idols of their power. Check out more on his story here :

    tbjfansuk.wordpress.com/2011/01/07/tb-joshua-declares-2011-the-year-of-another-chance/

    Copy and paste in your browser.

    I have few questions for you:

    1. Have you ever experienced deliverance from such a situation in your life?

    2. By what power do you think this man was rescued?

    2. What would you have this Evangelist believe about TBJ? That he is a sinner or God’s Holy servant?

  7. @ Soe,

    By what means is this story verified. through the Police, the Government, Psychiatric institutions, Doctors Surgeries, Hospitals. Nowhere on Google there is known an Evangelist that is called Ndeanco Ogbonaya than only one that is linked to a SCOAN website in this case.

    I know some other ministers that have these stark stories, legs growing on, eyes return in sockets, fingers growing on, spinal curvatures straighten up, babies that miraculously appear within women and some born 2 within 9 months with different times of delivery, metal being removed from people that have this in their bone structure screwed when it was broken, you name it, but they always happen when nobody can verify them for credibility and reliability. Always in some dark jungle, bush or within a closed circle of people that claim the same things.

    And what also is particular in this, it always happens in colored people churches. Especially from Nigeria, Ghana. Tanzania, Kenya, Botswana, etc.. Countries who are known to be most corrupt countries in the world. But when they come to the US, UK, the Continent, all of sudden they are incapable of performing such “miraculous” matters in what their claims are. Here is a list of them that do such claims:

    “thepathoftruth.com/falseteachers/#list” Copy and paste in your browser.

    Why don’t you apply to the “James Randi Educational Foundation” and ask if they can investigate and verify your T. B. Joshua claims. “randi.org”

    And for your information, God does listen to sinners and does the miraculous because of grace. An example is the man in the pool of Bethesda that was healed, the only condition was afterwards, do not sin anymore unless something worse will happen to you, what Jesus told him.

    So again, Is T. B. Joshua a sinner or not ? Like everyone else is ? Yes or no ?

  8. Hi ian,

    If you feel that just because I admitted that the prophet is greater than I am – I see him as a demi-god then that would be you in your usual cynicism that doesn’t prove me wrong by all scriptural standards. And even in saying this, I know is that I’m clearly not in the wrong- even Jesus admitted that John the baptist was greater than all the children born of women at the time;

    “Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist…” – Matthew 11:11″

    Even among his disciples he made it clear what guarantees them being greater than their fellows ;

    “But not so with you. Rather, let the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the leader as one who serves.” – Luke 22:26.

    Apostle Paul further speaks to explain this in the parables of vessels” ;

    “Now in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also of wood and clay, some for honorable use, some for dishonorable”. – II Timothy 2:20

    My point is- don’t let anyone deceive you, and worst still, don’t delude yourself with spiritual equality because – we are NOT equal, if we were, then the works we do would tell of this louder than our own mouths.

    Jesus himself said: If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; – John 10:37

    “I also would not believe you are spiritually equal with TBJ without the necessary proof in your works”.

    Adhering to the claim of being equally gifted even with such GREAT differences in the WORKS that should confirm our equality just tells how PROUD we ourselves are. we must accept such difference in our personalities if we are to move forward. Even as Paul says:… for I ought to have been COMMENDED by you. For I was not at all inferior to these super-apostles, even though I am nothing. – II Corinthians 12:11

    • Soe, you’re getting confused. Of course people can be different in anointing (Ephesians 4), or greater in achievement (John the Baptist, Paul, Peter, Billy Graham, TB Joshua) – but we are all equal in standing before God, or as I put it – spiritually equal.

      “There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, [Man of God or regular punter] for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” Galations 3:28

      “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, (Even TB Joshua) and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.” Romans 3:23-24

      By the way, the distinction being made between honourable and dishonourable vessels is contrasting believers and non-believers, not different categories of believers – so that passage isn’t relevant to your argument.

  9. @ Ian,

    lol, You can see by yourself that Soe uses scripture whenever it is saying something he thinks to his advantage instead of applicable to a spiritual matter that is relevant.

    Secondly Soe,

    Just think the situation of Cornelius in Acts. What was Peter’s answer ?

    Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no RESPECTER of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. Acts 10:34-35

    Yet still you elevate your fellow man above yourself and others and you still go in denial you don’t do Idolatry ? Wow, this truly borders to me as cultism and not using your brain anymore in how wrong it is. You take many scriptures out of context and apply them now almost randomly for the purpose to defend a mere man.

    What does the bible say about this ?

    It’s called “A Reprobate Mind”

    Reprobates know better, but they don’t do better, they “hold the Truth in unrighteousness:

    For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became VAIN in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the UNCORRUPTIBLE God into an image made like to CORRUPTIBLE man <~~~~, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Romans 1:18-23

    Every human is corruptible including T. B. Joshua, why because he is a mere man like anyone else is. His flesh is still sinful and is prone to sin. It's one of the reasons why we are here to expose this to the world. The denial of it is like the one's that have leprosy, their flesh that rots of their faces and limbs. That is like our sinful nature is. Deprived.

    The Greek word for flesh is called Sarx.

    Definition:

    – flesh (the soft substance of the living body, which covers the bones and is permeated with blood) of both man and beasts
    – the body
    – the body of a man
    – used of natural or physical origin, generation or relationship
    – born of natural generation
    – the sensuous nature of man, "the animal nature"
    – without any suggestion of depravity
    – the animal nature with cravings which incite to sin
    – the physical nature of man as subject to suffering
    – a living creature (because possessed of a body of flesh) whether man or beast
    -the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God

    Therefore yes, you, me and everyone else AND T. B. Joshua is a sinner. Period.

  10. @ Soe,

    “I also would not believe you are spiritually equal with TBJ without the necessary proof in your works”.

    There is still no proof of evidence by an independent organization that those “Works” you mention are of the Holy Spirit. They look more to Kundalini, Khi or Chi Projections than the Holy Spirit at work. The before mentioned can do healing and altering people and knock someone over like T. B. Joshua does.

    When there is the need of creative miracles like as I said, eyes return to sockets, limbs growing on, spinal curvatures totally straightened, hands straightened that were shriveled up, Polio victims, Lepers, the breast cancer of Giles mother, the others that died because T. B. Joshua claimed they were healed by God and died. The dead being raised. ( I know of one video online that T. B. Joshua tried to raise the dead but is completely debunked by someone on youtube) We should ask ourselves again and again. Is this the Holy Spirit that works through someone or do we have a counterfeit ?

  11. Another thing Soe,

    I don’t think you have a clue about this scripture regarding the elevation of persons of what you do:

    And He said to them, You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For that which is highly esteemed among men is ABOMINATION in the sight of God. Luke 16:15

  12. @ Nanardi,
    Even the context of your question is clearly wrong just as :
    Jesus said , “Is this not the reason you are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God? – Mark 12:24

    That text says you yourself quoted says; “all have SINNED and fall short of the glory of God,

    “All have SINNED” and “all are SINNERS” Isn’t the same though you’ve equated them. You yourselves should listen for the tenses used,
    One talks of our PAST the other you used talks about our PRESENT State. its only satan that discusses our past Jesus discusses our present and future and in the present as Christians, We are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus not sinners- we may sin, but that doesn’t make us sinners- sinners are alienated from a relationship with God.

    And the bit about TBJ Raising the dead:- it is very sad that you would choose to believe a COMMENTER On youtube over overwhelming evidence.’
    The Pretoria based paper News24 of May 27, 2002 carries the story of TB Joshua bringing 76 year Moses Marule back to life after he was certified dead. This claim was confirmed by South African neurosurgeon Dr. Johan Wilkinson who had certified Marule’s death.
    “People must choose whether they believe in science or in God,” said Dr Wilkinson, adding, “I believe it is possible, I saw it with my own eyes and I believe in the Bible.”

    ITS ONLY HUMAN TO CHALLENGE LEVELS WE CANNOT OPERATE IN; BUT WICKED TO ASCRIBE IT TO SATAN JUST BECAUSE WE CANNOT OPERATE AT SUCH LEVEL! What we don’t understand, we call names. And what we understand, we destroy. In John 7, when Jesus was in the midst of his people, some said he was fake and that he’s not a man of God. Others said he’s a true man of God. So, it happened during the time of our Lord Jesus Christ. Every minister of God must face a controversy and arguments by his people. They want to know his origin, nature and position. So, what TBJ Does is not something to be understood by the carnally minded.

    @ian
    Obviously one of us is WRONG in this case of “spiritual equality” either you (Ian) or me (soe).And by principle I’d rather be indifferent over what I’m unsure of than stand for what I know to be wrong but to make this easier perhaps I should define “GREATER” for you

    1-:distinguished , eminent, great — ((used of persons) STANDING ABOVE OTHERS in character or attainment or reputation;

    2. outstanding — (of MAJOR SIGNIFICANCE or IMPORTANCE to those under consideration

    And “GREATEST” MEANS :, leading, preeminent — (HIGHEST IN IMPORTANCE OR DEGREE OR SIGNIFICANCE OR ACHIEVEMENT)

    If you’ve gotten the definition, then answer my question:

    Why did Jesus use the word “GREATER” In Comparing John the baptist to other children Given birth to-
    and what the “GREATEST AMONG THEM” should do when referring to the disciples if we are all SPIRITUALLY EQUAL?

    • John the Baptist was a prophet of the Old Covenant, people weren’t spiritually equal then – it is in Christ that this equality comes. As for your definition of greatness, I think you can legitimately call TB Joshua great by that definition, but that wasn’t the definition we were using, we were talking about our standing before God – by that definition, you cannot biblically justify him being any greater than any other believer. If you’re unsure of that, I would encourage you to go to the scripture and see for yourself.

      As for your discussion with Nanardi, I actually agree with you that as believers we are no longer sinners before God, but I think the two of you have begun to speak past each other. I believe Nanardi’s main contention (which is practically the same as mine) is that you seem to see TB Joshua being in a greater spiritual category to the rest of us, you seem to believe that he never sins, and that everything he says is the word of God. How do you respond to those charges?

  13. @ Soe,

    “So, what TBJ Does is not something to be understood by the carnally minded.”

    Ahhhhh, we just have to throw our brain and faculties away and become like Zombies and don’t ask any questions and swallow any claim unchecked and unverified. Eh ? How convenient this answer is. Perhaps the answer lies in the Cut and Paste option in Software when convenient.

  14. @ian,
    You said: I believe Nanardi’s main contention (which is practically the same as mine) is that you seem to see TB Joshua being in a greater spiritual category to the rest of us, you seem to believe that he never sins, and that everything he says is the word of God. How do you respond to those charges?

    Perhaps I can be make it clearer to you in this way;

    1. God loves us as much as he does any of his children,any of his prophet or pastors- this was proved when Christ died for all!

    2. You have as much righteousness as any pastor or prophet- this is so because righteousness is a gift to all who accept Christ!

    3. But we do not have EQUAL levels of FAITH AND LOVE! AND These are the virtues that determine a man’s standing before God whether GREAT OR LESS and what is possible for that man in Christ Jesus.

    This is the reason for the DIFFERENCES in what we can achieve in the same name of Jesus because:

    A man with much LOVE and GREAT FAITH is “spiritually superior” to the one with WEAK FAITH and LITTLE love-whether before God, angels or demons and can thus be of help to the man with weak faith- as he is standing on a higher ground by operating in the dimension God himself operates. As the disciples saw when they were unable to cast out a demon till Jesus came to their rescue-yet they had been driving out demons before then. Mark 9.

    That does not mean the man with little love and weak faith cannot be greater tomorrow, and that also does not mean the man with Great faith will forever maintain his position. it all depends on how they build and maintain their relationship with the Holyspirit.

    Ii.
    There are levels in the prophetic ministry, for a prophet like TBJ Who is always under the check and conduct of the Holyspirit- every word he speaks is spirit-filled- and words become Gods word when they are affected by the Holyspirit- that is why it comes with power to change situations. You’ll agree with me as the bible says that: IF ANYONE SPEAKS, HE SHOULD DO IT AS ONE SPEAKING THE VERY WORDS OF GOD – I Peter 4:11 NIV.

    Its even a command for every true Christian so therefore it is even much more possible for those who have the divine commission of hearing from God and speaking for Him.

    • 1) Agreed
      2) Agreed
      3) “But we do not have EQUAL levels of FAITH AND LOVE! (yeah…..) AND These are the virtues that determine a man’s standing before God (er, no – that would be a works based religion not grace based) whether GREAT OR LESS and what is possible for that man in Christ Jesus. (yeah, great faith would enable you to do great things, but would not make you more justified before God)

      [TBJ] is always under the check and conduct of the Holyspiritevery word he speaks is spirit-filled- and words become Gods word when they are affected by the Holyspirit

      It’s lines like this that make it sound like you consider him a God. If he is always under the check of the holy spirit then he is a perfect man, he is equal to Jesus.

  15. @ Soe,

    “IF ANYONE SPEAKS, HE SHOULD DO IT AS ONE SPEAKING THE VERY WORDS OF GOD – I Peter 4:11 NIV.”

    So you think if you are speaking God’s word is it as God is speaking ? Like as in if I speak God’s word I speak with the same authority as God ?

    Ok, Soe, let’s test this if this is true as you say it is. Can you speak out over me if God will grant me as Jesus was given, “And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.” Isaiah 11:2-4

    Based upon as a question as a Pastor:

    For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
    Ephesians 4:12-13

    According to the measure of my Faith that I might increase as by hearing and doing the Word of the God.

    If it works out like that, I will let you know if it is true what you claim there.

  16. Errm, Soe, if you feel you are inadequate or not sufficient in faith about this, please ask Mr. T. B. Joshua as he has greater faith according to you.

    Thanx

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