SCOAN’s Response to Sky News

SCOAN’s response to the Sky news story was both surprising and revealing. It was surprising because it barely addressed the numerous and serious issues that the report brought up.  Its tone was smug and complacent, as if whoever wrote it had no idea of the gravity of situation. It was revealing because it is confirmed some of the most worrying aspects of SCOAN’s teaching that brought about the controversy in the first place.

 The Sky news report  said that SCOAN UK, as well as other churches in London, encourages people to quit their HIV medication after being prayed for and declared ‘healed’. They backed this up with a video from an undercover reporter with HIV who went to SCOAN UK. She was told that 1) healing of HIV/AIDS at SCOAN is 100% effective. She was told that 2) if she began to experience pains and diarrhoea after the ‘healing’, (which are possible effects of stopping taking medication), this was simply a sign of the virus leaving the body. This is all on camera. The report also claims that at least six people in the UK have died as a result of this teaching (though doesn’t specify that these were all in SCOAN). Needless to say, this is pretty serious stuff.

What would you expect a church in this position to say? You might reasonably expect some kind of engagement with the issue. A reassurance that the disciple who said these things was out of line and would be corrected? A clear statement that SCOAN encourages people to consult a doctor before discontinuing medication? Some kind of acknowledgement that whatever happened, people had died, and there were some issues that needed to be carefully examined?

SCOAN gave nothing of the sort.  Instead we get a string of  TB Joshua Quotable Quotes (TM) and this:

We don’t ask people to stop taking medication.

We believe this is untrue. We have spoken to people who have been explicitly told by SCOAN disciples to stop taking medication . However, we know from Hattie’s account that people are not always directly told to stop medication; the spiritual and psychological pressure to do so is enough.

Most interestingly, the response confirms that the dangerous teaching of ‘maintaining your healing’, that we have written about several times, is still a core part of SCOAN’s teaching.

When we are healed, we are healed for a relationship with Jesus forever. Christianity is a relationship. When the relationship is broken, the blessing is lost.

If anybody comes in the name of God, we pray for them. The outcome of the prayer will determine if they come genuinely or not.

So there it is, straight from the horses mouth. SCOAN believe that healing is conditional, and there is always the possibility you can be unhealed (or re-inflicted?) at a later date. And if you are not healed, this is because you did not come for prayer  ‘genuinely’ or have sufficient faith. We will explore what a misguided and unbiblical teaching this is in a further post.

49 thoughts on “SCOAN’s Response to Sky News

  1. T B Joshua does not have the right answers to these questions and we are not surprised because he is a false prophet.

  2. @ tb joshua watch – Do you believe God can heal HIV and many other deadly diseases???
    @ Mr Terrific – your heart is full of hatred…check it out! I am wondering if you really are a christian as you claim OR you are just using that title for your own reasons…shame!!!

    • Mr terrific could be using that name for his personal reason,because not all that call me Lord that will enter into the eternal glory.

  3. @ alan basha,

    To cessationists and anti-charismatics, revelatory and other supernatural gifts are just not possible, so if you have them, that automatically qualifies you as a false prophet. Notice how they make much of the 1 John 4:1-3 test, but yet fail to heed its pure wisdom. On this score, TB Joshua passes the test since he acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh and is from God. Bu that’s not enough to the cessationist. To him, extraordinary displays of supernatural power and revelation makes you an antichrist. Such views operate from an a priori thinking, and it is therefore natural that the charismatically gifted should send them fear because it is a violation of their theological sensibilties.

  4. @Ironclad – Who are these cessationists you are constantly referring to? There are loads of people commenting here. Can you be more specific please, cause your generalisation is now starting to drive me up the wall, cause almost each and every one of your posts start with the word cessationist, which I kindly ignored up to now as I did not interpret that your comment implied that I was to respond.

    Also I told you that I have responded to your comment on the article “Why the accusers of TB Joshua takes so long to respond”. I suggest you go and read it and follow the advice that I have offered there. I suggested that you read back on previous articles and comments here as I find that you are a bit out of touch to say the least about whom the people are that’s commenting here and also about what they believe. I for one cannot repeat everything I have said over the last month or so and neither can anyone else. That is my reason for suggesting that you please read back, as no one here would be willing to discuss things already discussed up to this point.

  5. Look who the churches in Britain are dealing with in this controversy. A closer look at one of the accusers >>> “Emmanuel admitted he suspects he may have passed HIV onto his boyfriend” [http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16117269]. Talk about not changing your lifestyle and repenting from your sin of homosexuality and yet wanting God to heal you. Since in the Western world AIDS still attacks gays disproportionately, of course it is not a long jump to conclude that some in the gay community will have their radars open and their claws ready for tearing its prey with on this one. After all, ILGA and similar LGBT groups are increasing their efforts to bring down all things religious and if it could, destroy Christianity itself, the vanguard of so-called hostilities against them. Funny that many professed Christians are joining their efforts as the Devil pounces on.

    • Ok, so this controversy about TB Joshua is all a big gay conspiracy?

      This is absurd, ironclad, along with your point about this guy going to a church in the North of London. From the very beginning of the Sky article it makes VERY clear that this is a wider issue than just SCOAN. However there was a undercover report from SCOAN that was a very strong illustration of the problem. The article makes no attempt to make it sound like this Emmanuel guy went to SCOAN. It specified that he went to ANOTHER church, one in the North of London. If they were trying to deceive they would have just said his London church.

      • tbjoshuawatch wrote: “Ok, so this controversy about TB Joshua is all a big gay conspiracy? This is absurd</b

        Sir or mam, we cannot deny the fact that AIDS disproportionately affects gays in western countries. And we cannot pretend that there is not a homosexual agenda out there looking to destroy the church, or at least that sector of Christianity that disagrees with their lifestyle and calls it a sin. Have you been aware of the latest activities of the pro-gay movement in its attempt of dismantling established Christian traditions and values?

        We have one of the accusers, Emmanuel, in the Sky News report, who’s complaining that he might have given the virus to his boyfriend after, presumably, thinking that he was already healed. What??!! That sounds so preposterous and disengenuous. The gall of this man!! Instead of changing his sinful ways and turning back from the sin of homosexual sex, this malcontent has the audacity to point fingers at God and his servants for not having his miracle as was promised so that he could go ahead and keep on enjoying his sodomizing escapades.

        This is bad enough in itself, but what worries me more is that here we have a group of co-called Christians joining hands with these unrepentant sinners, even with a liberally slanted media, and following the Serpent’s tail without so much looking at the destructive path the filthy animal is leading it to.

      • Dear Ironclad,
        We have a comments policy. I’d recommend that you read it before posting again.
        https://tbjoshuawatch.wordpress.com/2011/06/26/a-note-on-moderating-comments/
        https://tbjoshuawatch.wordpress.com/2011/07/23/an-update-to-our-comments-policy/
        Really we shouldn’t have even allowed that last post, as it was both way off topic and a red herring. You’re welcome to say that a gay man from North London who has never attended SCOAN is part of a plot to bring down christianity but it is nothing to do with the subject of this blog.

      • I’m actually glad you allowed the comment below. It shows the kind of person we’re dealing with. Why should emmanuel turn his back on his “sinful ways” (oh yes, and we are all without sin so we can cast the first stone) when the church has let him down and left him dying?

      • “here we have a group of co-called Christians joining hands with these unrepentant sinners”
        – Brilliant, sign me up! Here’s a WWJD moment if ever I saw one.

  6. Someone,

    Not speaking for Mr T but the same can be said about TBJ’s comments. Yes, It can be but hetred that is behind Mr T words indicates something opposite. Hetred can be smelled from distance even by internet.

    • Even though I do think Mr Ts words are aggressive at times I would not be in a position to judge him as being hateful, because I don’t think I’ve ever met him. Have you?

      Distance is obviously not a barrier to your smelling faculties… (a joke… Just in case anyone is wondering) 🙂

  7. @ Visser,

    I can smell from a distance that it is not hatred, but A. N. G. E. R. about something that is in question about T. B. Joshua and unrigheousness. Stop diverting things and deviating matters. It could be that you are spiritually influenced doing so and you can’t control that either.

    People in general are angry about unrighteousness and when they can’t do anything about a situation because they are not in a position to do so.

    Let’s make it clear here, that unrighteousness is in all of us, but most of us don’t do it for a job. Satan and all his demons do this for a job, it’s his and their prerogative. People that are in such spiritual environment do this because they might be weak in their temptation. Temptation is old, very very old, from way back in Genesis this was so.

    We know better….am I right ?

    What we are discussing here is cunningness, craftiness and deception. Deception can be hard and difficult to be unmasked, but by the Power of God Almighty you can do that.

    Some people are just in denial and their denial is a problem that only can be confronted with facts and Absolute Truth. It works like this:

    Jeremiah 23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

    Ecclesiates 8:5 Whoso keepeth the commandment shall feel no evil thing: and a wise man’s heart discerneth both time and judgment.

    Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

    If anyone wants to win this battle and be victorious, you shall have to take the Word of God and His Spirit and cut and hammer in Faith and break the lies that are. Until then demons are too smart in their discussions and deviate and lie their way out in every way they can. Lying is their nature. Just saying….

  8. @ All,

    You can start asking about this Scripture is all the prophecies that T. B. Joshua does is conforming:

    I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied. But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings. Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off?
    Jeremiah 23:21-23

    Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith. Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD. And when this people, or the prophet, or a priest, shall ask thee, saying, What is the burden of the LORD? thou shalt then say unto them, What burden? I will even forsake you, saith the LORD. Jeremiah 23:31-33

    What do certain “world prophecies” benefit anyone ?

    Did they repent afterwards from their ways ? or did they continue to sin and carry on in their ways ?

    How many can testify that their lives are changed 4-5 years down the line ? Not 2-3 days or 2-3 weeks from now…… from what I see on Emmanuel TV.

    Does a prophet steer an entire country for example and do they listen as if God has spoken ? Do they repent of their ways and listen and change their ways ?

    Ask questions like this…..

    • Cannot agree more. Things like prophesying football scores cannot be anything else but fortune telling.

  9. Someone Somewere It is easy to say it that it is fortune telling. What about Elisha : II Kings 7.1

    Elisha said, “Hear the word of the LORD. This is what the LORD says: About this time tomorrow, a seah of flour will sell for a shekel and two seahs of barley for a shekel at the gate of Samaria.”

    Elisha gave the prophesy about stock market. I would invest my money according his words on Stock or Forex etc. at that time. I sense hatred from Mr. Terrific. Why some of you are very stuborn and stiff-necked ?

    • What was the context of the Elisha story? Sorry – but there is NO similarity as Nanardi explains below.

  10. Question: What advantage has a football match prediction for today’s starving people ? Anyone ?

    If….. we should go in the trend of Vissers’ train of thought. Is it not so that starving people don’t have any money to invest in the Stock exchange or in the Dow Jones ?

    The provision OF FOOD OR SUSTENANCE that came out of Elisha’s prophetic insight was for those that were starving and listened and acted to it.

    So back to the football prediction, how does this provide food or sustenance for starving people ?

    I don’t see any similarity. Please explain ?

  11. Secondly Visser,

    As far as I know what God does in His Word is this which He said in 1 Samuel 2

    I leave it for you to check this out and understand what it means that it is not depended on any prophecy or prediction but for anyone that is living today. Because God is a God for all of mankind.

    The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up. The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up. He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD’S, and he hath set the world upon them. He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail. The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken to pieces; out of heaven shall he thunder upon them: the LORD shall judge the ends of the earth; and he shall give strength unto his king, and exalt the horn of his anointed. 1 Samuel 2:6-10

    No prophetic, predictions means are necessary here, but only understanding that God looks after every living being by His Grace and Kindness as He finds good.

    So we could say like Job said:

    He said, “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, And naked I shall return there. The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away. Blessed be the name of the LORD. Job 1:21

  12. It was simple a message for the King. Why you always look for a reason? Why? Because you want to control everything? It is wasting time to write too much words about it. Why you are like the officer doubting everything?

    The officer on whose arm the king was leaning said to the man of God, “Look, even if the LORD should open the floodgates of the heavens, could this happen?” “You will see it with your own eyes,” answered Elisha, “but you will not eat any of it!” II Kings. 7.2

    For sure at that time you will judge Elisha not only him but every prophet of the Lord. So is today ! Aaaaa?

    • Why look for a reason? Because God is purposeful and a God of order (look at Creation for instance). He doesn’t just do something because he has nothing better to do. He has a divine plan.

      Lamentations 2:14 ‘4The visions of your prophets were false and worthless’

  13. I greet you in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.AMEN

    GUYS,GUYS GUYSSSSSSSS Do you really understand what chistianity is all about?It is not by testing GOD or trying to see if his word works. It is all about faith, and faith is as you said i believe in my heart that JESUS CHRIST has died and rise again. if you believe in your heart and say it with your mouth, i dont believe you will ever compare JESUS CHRIST WITH PROPHET TBJ.What ever you confess with your mouth is your possession.And christianity is all about praying.

    Every time you pray and walk in christianity path i dont belive you could be accusing SCOAN of false prophecy or healing. i never heard any man of GOD on earth forcing people not to take medication any more. All i know is that as a person when you feel that you are not feeling well, its your responsibility to take care of yourself.There is no one to instruct you what to do and not to do.

    Actually to my view all of the people oppossing the work of prophet TBJ are really sick. Their minds are not working properly and they really need help.I am aware that i am not from your country but why only same people having problems with what TBJ is doing.Really you are not christians and you really dont know the mandate of GOD. GOD;S mandate is the bible, i think when you read the bible properly you will then start to realise where you are missing points,and be corrected again, and start to follw JESUS CHRIST according to what you believe in.

    My advice is that just pray and start doing what other christians are doing rather than complaning and pointing fingers to others.But to my opinion, I DO BELIEVE IN WHAT TBJ IS DOING. HE IS NOT THE ANTI CHRIST AND HE IS NOT DOING WHAT HE WAS NOT CALLED TO DO. HE IS A MAN OF GOD AND HE HAS HEALED, DONE SO MANY THINGS IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST.

    • @Lindiwe. Most of the letters of Paul and Peter to the churches have warnings about false teachers, prophets and messiahs. Why do you think they stressed these warnings over and over again? Because there were and still are many false teachers etc (all doing things in the name of Jesus). The same applies today, however some ‘Christians’ oppose other Christians for wanting to uphold Biblical standards and practices.

      Do you think we shouldn’t hold our leaders to account? Why shouldn’t we test TBJ and his ‘prophecies’ and ‘healings’ against scripture? Is he above Scripture?

      • Somesome tell me what is it that you saw falsefully TBJ did? I hear you talking about false prophecy tell us where on earth TBJ his prophecy & healing was against scripture.

        No i don’t say you should not anyone to account on things he wrongly did to you.But what i say is that, i think every thing he dos on emmanuell tv is a life shooting,so that means what we see in tv is similar to what you see in nigeria is’nt it. And what i normally see happening there is very awesome.No one can ask how cos it is a life show,so to my opinion what i normally see happening there, to me is what JESUS CHRIST SPOKE ABOUT IT WHEN HE SAID TO HIS DESCIPLES, THAT I AM LEAVING YOU THE HOLY SPIRIT, WHEREBY MIRACLES I AM PERFOMING HERE YOU ARE GOING TO EXCELL IN IT.

        TBJ is doing excatly what Jesus Christ spoke about.

        Anyway before we go any further tell us what is it that you saw him doing except to what you heard people said he did. BUT FOR YOUR INFORMATION WE DO BELIEVE THAT THIS MAN IS THE MAN OF GOD. AND WE WILL KEEP SUPPORTING WHAT HE DOES,COS WE BELIEVE IS WHAT WE REALLY NEED,HEALING,DELIVERANCE & ALL THESE WONDERFUL THINGS HE DOES TO YOUR HOMELESS CHILDREN etc, THERE in Nigeria.

      • Can you please read through older posts? I don’t think it is the best use of my time to repeat to you that which has been posted here ad infinitum.

        No reason to get so upset. I simply have experienced him in a completely different way than you. I have no doubt that you believe that this man is a ‘man of God’ but I don’t. I’ve seen magicians do many impressive things live on TV. Something happening in the name of Jesus on TV does not and should not automatically get our approval. We need to TEST things.

        The problem with statements like ‘BUT FOR YOUR INFORMATION WE DO BELIEVE THAT THIS MAN IS THE MAN OF GOD. AND WE WILL KEEP SUPPORTING WHAT HE DOES,COS WE BELIEVE IS WHAT WE REALLY NEED,HEALING,DELIVERANCE & ALL THESE WONDERFUL THINGS HE DOES TO YOUR HOMELESS CHILDREN’ is that it sounds nice, but is not the truth. You don’t need any of the things on the list above. What you need is salvation through the blood (not water) of Jesus Christ alone ‘and all these things shall be added unto you’. The focus is wrong – it is on this one man being the focus/mediator between you and Jesus. God gave us Jesus, not Jesus and then his ‘servant’ TBJ as a backup. Only Jesus – nothing more, nothing less.

        BTW – I don’t have homeless children… 🙂

    • You say Lindiwe that in your view people who oppose the work of this man are sick. I will tell you of my experience of the work of this man. (I have said all of this before so it may seem like going round in circles)
      I have observed that after involvement with SCOAN people who wanted wholeheartedly to live their lives for Jesus no longer speak of Jesus but use the name of this man frequently. I have experienced the severing of family contact and relationships, and I know that this is not just that family that I am part of. I have heard first had accounts of people who have been sexually abused by TBJoshua. People who are now recovering and reclaiming their lives and their faith in Jesus. I have known people who have been declared healed by TBJoshua and have gone on to die because of the condition that was declared as healed. I have now heard of many more people for whom that is the outcome. I have observed people writing in support of TBJoshua demonstrating no grace or concern to individuals. There is ample evidence that the name of this man is used more in publicity than the name of Jesus. Is it sick to speak out against the man who leads the church that delivers this kind of fruit?

      • I agree with everything Madeleine is saying. Just to illustrate – one family I know who are involved in SCOAN used to be the kind of people who would welcome anyone and everyone into their home. It was a standing joke in our church that Sunday lunch at their house would be a free-for-all and you might have to bring your own chair cause there would be so many people there. They befriended tramps, women in crisis, lonely students, lonely older people – the lot. They were acting as Jesus did. Now they won’t even talk to their own family. Tell me what is sick and what is healthy?

        Also, I’ve been studying Galations recently (I might not understand what Christianity is all about but I can read my Bible) and it’s full of warnings against people who were preaching a gospel that was not of God, in order to glorify themselves. A little like the unbiblical teachings we’ve heard from SCOAN? Paul urges us to be on our guard against such people, not go around with blinkers on, pretending that everything is lovely. You’re clearly on your guard…but I think you might be guarding yourself against the wrong people….!

  14. @ Someone Somewhere – of course you can test…but or yourself…not for others. The leaders, what they are doing is open. Most of them minister live. Anyone can tune in and according to what they hear and see, they can come to a conclusion about them. The Bible says that the Spirit of God will testify within us concerning everything and NOT someone, somewhere that we do not even know who they are and what they are…can you see how pointless is what this site and others like it are doing??? Did you ever think that the warning about false teachers…. may include also people like you who under fake names and hidden identities can speak anyhow against other christians and explain bible verses anyhow trying in this way to bring division and hatred among the body of Christ???

    Also, it’s true that God is doing everything with a purpose. This purpose many times is hidden from us in the time we want to know it. Latter on, as we keep walking with HIM we understand many things we were not able to before. Alos, the fact that you don’t see any purpose in what is going on, it does not mean there is no purpose there. There can be many people somewhere that are able to see the purpose and bless God about it.

    • @ Alan. Thank you for your reply. 1. I was a part of this ministry and don’t reveal my real identity for 3 reasons. 1) I know what happens to those who dare speak out (the Bisola video), 2) am concerned from my safety (yes – my physical safety) and 3) it doesn’t make sense to reveal personal information on the internet.

      If you have a positive opinion of SCOAN and TBJ then nothing I say or do will convince you otherwise. I will keep praying for those in SCOAN (and I don’t mean that in a condescending kind of way).

      This site is everything but pointless.

      As I’ve said in a previous comment I feel very strongly that others should be warned about the dangers of this organisation. If there is a fire in a building, would you just quickly run out without sounding the alarm and trying to get others out of the burning building? Some might be stubborn and try to offer alternative explanations for the smoke. However – others will flee the building with you. I am running as far away from SCOAN and will raise the alarm on my way out.

      Put another way. Have you ever been to Olympus in Turkey? Fire actually comes out of the ground. It is the weirdest thing I’ve ever seen. Can you tell me that because you have not see it, it cannot possibly exist? In the same way – to all those pro-SCOAN commentators – just because you haven’t been a victim of the abuse or seen any of the other dodgy goings on does not mean it does not exist. It only means you haven’t experienced it and you cannot disprove the very real and hurtful experiences others had or are having.

      Theologically speaking it is also incorrect to suggest that our opinions re wrong/false teachings should be kept private. Paul admonished Peter publicly. He also speaks of a metal worker Alexander in Timothy who ‘did him great harm’.

  15. @tbjoshuawatch – I don’t know why you people do not reply to my question concerning God healing HIV today and other deadly diseases????

    • Dear Alan,
      I hope the latest post on ‘maintaining miracles’ makes things clearer. We don’t believe that healing stopped happening in biblical times. If you read comments by Giles and Claire they have their own personal testimonies of healing in recent years. But what we object to is a church that says that their healing is ‘100% effective’ (see Sky News), but say that it is only maintained if you never doubt or sin.

    • My concern here is this; Do you think that God will NOT heal HIV / AIDs? The focus seems to be on HIV as a disease more devil-inflicted and “deserved” than “other types” of disease.
      I don’t recall TB Joshua telling anyone NOT to take medicine. I do recall an incident where I went to a small chemist in the church, asking for an asthma pump, and the disciples stopped me. I had my own pump with me, however, at SCOAN.
      Also – in his response, TB Joshua was saying that he does believe in “medicine” (referring to God as the medicine), which (by implication) means that he IS against people taking medicine other than what God provides. My argument with SCOAN lies in the ambiguity in the answers to specific questions. But that could be because of the same reason that Jesus left the answer open to anyone concerning the bird in the hand (alive or dead) … people will always interpret its life or death based on ANY answer given.

      I believe that God heals anything … and where I object to SCOAN and TB Joshua, I have been as open about it in identity. I expect at least to be afforded the same, especially since I have openly attacked the church (and TB Joshua himself) based on the reports of of two credit unworthy misanthropes who claim sexual abuse. Is it unfair, then, to get (even in private) ONE such confirmation from another disciple?

      • Hi Somewhatsober. Can God heal HIV or AIDS? Yes. Does he? I would think so (don’t know anyone myself but sure it must happen). My concern is that there are instances where people have been ‘encouraged’ not to take medicine – often implicitly rather than explicitly – but that is just as dangerous.

        From allegations I have heard on this site, on the BBC and SkyNews and elsewhere, there appears to be a line of teaching that says if you are prayed for, you are healed. In order to receive this healing you have to exercise faith. If you continue to take medicine that is a lack of faith – persevere without and you will get better as long as you honestly believe. This seems to have been what caused Judith on this site not to take her insulin and what caused my friend Anna not to accept chemotherapy. Judith became very ill, Anna died.

        I believe that SCOAN should be saying ‘we believe God heals. However for reasons we do not understand, people are not always healed and therefore you should continue medication or other treatment until your healing has been confirmed by your doctor.’ If they did that, there would be no problem! It’s what other churches do.

  16. @ Visser,

    “For sure at that time you will judge Elisha not only him but every prophet of the Lord. So is today ! Aaaaa?”

    It is clear what the purpose of Elisha was because of his trackrecord and ACCEPTANCE he (Elisha) was the successor of Elijah, this was confirmed by many prophets in that time.

    And when the SONS of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him. 2 Kings 2:15

    Any idea what I am going to ask now Visser ? By what prophets is T. B. Joshua established as a prophet of God ? Explain…..

    P.S. let me remind you that many pastors do no recognize T. B. Joshua operating out of God’s Spirit. Visser are you saying that they don’t have any spiritual discernment and do not have the Holy Spirit according to

    To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another DISCERNING of SPIRITS; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 1 Corinthians 12:10

    You really think that there is no one in the world that can test and try the origins of T. B. Joshua’s powers Visser, is that what you are saying ? Or are you just riding on the ignorance of many people that are deceived and do not understand spiritual matters and issues ?

    These are questions they are not answered, not pressured either, maybe because of not being sure about what is going on. There are still true diamonds and fake diamonds, only those who know what the real one’s are know the difference. Visser

    Believe me not everyone is completely stupid and ignorant in this life. Visser This has nothing to do with being skeptical but by observing, probing, testing, questioning and going to the bottom of it. No judgment done there, but a genuine command from the Lord Himself to do so.

    I know from personal experience that people are gullible and are sheeple and want to stand in man’s shadow who they admire, but the real thing is when you challenge those things and they are found wanting in many areas is nothing wrong with that. Absolutely not.

  17. @Alan Basha – for some reason my phone won’t allow me to reply direct to you query about God healing HIV and other terminal diseases. Yes I do believe he can heal anything, but I don’t think He always heals because of the fall of man. Therefore where it’s something that is not immediately apparent, like HIV, I think people should be advised to have the healing confirmed by a doctor. This is particularly important with things like HIV where the virus can be spread to others. In these cases presumably a blood test will confirm the healing.

    • I can agree to that. Makes sense, yes. Even Smith Wigglesworth warns against the foolishness of NOT putting God to the test (he used his reading glasses as an example). You never pray for healing, and then toss everything away … Should one NOT “lay out the fleece”????

  18. Through everything i have read and researched on i believe all the above comments are right in that the bible warns us of false prophets who if possible can deceive even the elect. therefore we should test the spirit. we shall also know them by their fruit.

    It is also correct the bible says those after Jesus will do greater things even more than he did. Tbj’s sermons are always emphasizing focus on Jesus and not himself. they preach love for God and complete focus on him and daily living confessing the word of God as a standard of living this follows the advice given to Joshua in the bible to josh 1:8 daily meditate upon Gods word.

    It is clear we are judging him based only on miracles and signs as basis for him been false and not his beliefs on who Jesus is. i believe his response to the news is correct but unfortunate that people think healing is to be maintained, i pray they get enlightened.

    I PERSONALLY BELIEVE WE SHOULD TEST THE SPIRIT, BELIEVE THE HOLLY SPIRIT WILL TELL US EVEN GODS THOUGHTS AS THE BIBLE SAYS AND NOT BE QUICK TO JUDGE. THERE ARE TRULY MANY FALSE PROPHETS AND THESE ARE THE END DAYS BUT REMEMBER THERE IS GOD POWER OF HEALING COMPLETELY AND 100%. PRAY, WATCH, LIVE ON GODS WORD DAILY IS MY ADVICE. for all we know some of the people commenting here are aiming to confuse people more and are just the devil’s scheme to destroy a good man.

    SOMEONE SOMEWHERE Y fear for your life if you are truly a man of God. havent you read the persecutions the disciples went through in older to speak the truth. some were killed but were not detered from the right thing. if you have facts and are concerned about serving Christ and warning us about a false doctrine do so it is better you die and many are saved or isnt that what love is all about or is yo life all u care about?

    • Stella … I don’t think the argument is against TB Joshua ALONE!!!

      Consider the Ray McCauleys, Kenneth Hagin, Copeland, Hinn, At Boshoffs, Dollar and other charismatic preachers. I have NO objection to them preaching the Bible (but only to those who can’t read), and where they don’t pray for healing on others when THEY are themselves uncertain. It just seems that they’re using THAT principle to attract congregations along with their tithes.
      And as far as tithng goes … well … I had a problem when I felt condemned enough to draw the last of my money to give to ONE pastor who used it to relocate to Australia for an easier life, and to At Boshoff out of guilt. I didn’t give a tithe. I gave all I had, expecting God’s riches and Blessings.

      I’m just sick and tired of formalised religion on ANY scale – each assaulting the other (though NEVER personally heard TB Joshua insult any other church)
      Forget the healing … all we want is Holy Spirit NOW … like in the Bible. NOT after 2/3 years of enslavement in things we don’t understand.

  19. @ Visser,

    “Kundalini healings works by entering demon to a body to control sicness.”

    Where is it written that Kundalini is a demon entering in a body to control sickness ? Apparently you know squad about how Kundalini or Chi works or is applied.

    But there is a big chance if not 100% that this is practiced in many churches as in SCOAN, based upon observances and the way of application that is observed and the way it resembles with ancient and todays practitioners who do it. Kundalini is very powerful and when in controlled environment it has healing manifestations. But Kundalini is a “selfish” power, it has all kinds of sideworkings for example a very strong desire to have very strong sexual urges when it flows throw you when applied, very strong psychic and fortune telling abilities to even become very unstable in mental cognition (to even mental disturbances in the person and receiver) when aroused to a high level. It is also transferable to objects and in particular water. It takes years to “control” it and it can totally destroy you physically, mentally and cognitively. (No interest in prayer, reading the bible, have inner peace. This is only a little lift of the veil about Kundalini and Chi and also this is mainly practiced by Asians, Chinese and those that are initiated into this. The characteristics that I have seen in SCOAN are just that, which shows me that it is NOT the Holy Spirit from the Bible but a counterfeit spiritual encounter and does not benefit a true church going believer. There is a lot more I could tell about this, but I leave at that for now.

    Jesus is the One Who gives true Healing(s) (gifts of healings, plural), Miracles, Prophetic, Words of Knowledge and so forth by the Holy Spirit who is the Comforter, The Advocate.

    The Holy Spirit is more powerful than Kundalini or Chi and is not “selfish” in it’s workings as I described above. Rest me to say that it only points out to whom those other powers come from. Which are from the demonic spirit realm and Satan which is so vehemently denied here and covered up with a plethorah of biblical texts to wipe away it’s origins and pseudo healings and miracles. Things many who go to SCOAN have no discernment about since they are not reading the Word of God well by themselves and hang on more on a “healing” or “miracle” instead of the Absolute Truth that comes only from God’s Spirit.

  20. Mr terrific,Whatever,you are not worthy of judging,GOD alone does,so i will advise you leave it for GOD before you incure the rout of GOD upon yourself because as a christian,im surprise that you are fighting flesh and blood instead of the principalities and powers of darkness.I advised again,be ye doer of the word and not the hearer alone

  21. You are rebelling against GOD not PROPHERT T.B JOSHUA.when the children of Isaerel rebel against Moses in the wilderness of sin(did you take note of that,wilderness of sin,that means whenever you rebel,you are authumatically in sin)he said to them you rebel against your GOD because He is the one that sent me,i do nothing of my own

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