Maintaining your miracle part 3

Healing at SCOAN – an event or a process?

Follow the links for Part 1 and Part 2 of this series.

This will hopefully be our last post on maintaining your healing. Although we’re getting rather tired of the subject we have continued to labour it because we believe it is a very dangerous distortion of Christian teaching, one which has sadly cost people their lives. The problem with discussing this is that as with any counterfeit, SCOAN’s teaching on healing looks very similar to more orthodox Christian teaching on healing. It is only with close examination that the differences become clear. These subtle, yet dangerous differences are at times difficult to express, and have likely been the reason why many have misrepresented our criticisms (whether intentionally or not).

First we will consider an analogy which will help us to understand the teaching more clearly.

George is heavily in debt and close to bankruptcy. He has multiple repayments being made every month to service his debt, but after these are all made he has no money left to live on, so slips even further into debt. He visits a pastor who prays for him and declares him free of debt. The pastor tells him that all his debts have been repaid in full, and not only that – his bank account has been credited with $10,000 – more than enough to establish himself financially and avoid getting into debt again.

Now consider some questions about this scenario.

  • Should George check with his lenders that his debts are cleared before cancelling the repayments? Or would that show lack of faith?
  • Should George check his bank balance really is $10,000 before starting to spend it?

Now back to the story, consider this outcome, outcome A:

George takes the pastor at his word, cancels all his repayments and starts buying the things he needs for a modest and simple lifestyle. In just a couple of weeks he finds his bank account locked out, and debt collectors knocking at his door. Horrified, he discovers that nothing the pastor said was true and he is now completely bankrupt.

Is it fair to blame the pastor for this? Yes, of course! He made a claim which proved to be false and ended up bankrupting George. What if the Pastor claimed that what he said was true, but due to Georges lack of faith, he had not maintained his miracle and lost it. Wouldn’t that be quite outrageous?

Let’s now consider an alternative outcome, outcome B:

George goes and checks with the bank and his lenders and finds that exactly what the pastor said was true. He goes straight out and buys an expensive car, books a luxury holiday and starts renting an apartment costing twice as much as his old one. Before long he has spent all the money credited to his account and is fast slipping into debt again.

If this happened, would it be fair to blame the pastor? Of course not! What the pastor said was absolutely true, the pastor cannot be held responsible for what is done after this. However, nor can it be said that George did not maintain his miracle. The miracle was final and complete when the Pastor declared it – the debts were paid and the money was in the bank. The miracle wasn’t “undone” because of his irresponsible living, he got himself in debt again!

Outcome A represents what we claim happens at SCOAN. This claim is based on what we have observed happening to people we know personally (most of whom died) as well as what we have seen in various news reports. Outcome B represents the “straw man” that SCOAN supporters erect as a fallacious way of responding to our criticism. Just like the miracle George experienced in outcome B, a biblical miracle is final and complete. It does not dictate to you how you may live in the future, but that specific issue is dealt with finally and completely.

The only way SCOAN supporters justify the fact that people have died after being declared healed by TB Joshua is that they did not maintain their miracle (if you have another justification, please let us know in the comments). The people who we know personally were never healed, or to use the George analogy, the debts were never paid off and the money was never in the bank. It was not that they irresponsibly squandered their miracle afterwards.

This leaves SCOAN supporters with 3 options:

  1. Accuse us of lying about the deaths of our friends and relatives
  2. Admit that the maintaining your miracle teaching has been grossly misused to cover up for false healings
  3. Stick their fingers in their ears whilst shouting “Pharisee, Pharisee, Pharisee, Pharisee!!” at the top of their voices.

22 thoughts on “Maintaining your miracle part 3

  1. Greting. one smoll girl went for healing to scoan. she was declare free but till to day she still have the same probleme. one must be careful these are the last days

    • Kali – NOT to defend TB Joshua, but the truth of the matter is that even Smith Wigglesworth had laid hands on a sick girl before (I think that she had a cancerous bulb on her forehead), and after prayer, she thanked God and walked away proclaiming that she’d been healed. Everyone thought that she was mad, because it was still there for three years afterwards. Smith testifies to having spoken to her year after year, but in the third year it actually fell off. Her faith remained unwaivering. It’s not easy to say WHEN the manifestation of that healing will take place … but as I understand it, that lump may have been there, but the pain wasn’t.

  2. We have really exhausted this topic about false claims of healing by this charlatan T B Joshua, but we’ll continue to sound the alarm, as many more people are yet to recover from this great deception of our time. The Bible records that when Jesus went to Nazareth, His home town, He could only perform a few miracles there because of their unbelief. Mark 6:5. However, T B Joshua, in his attempt to make a name equal to, or even better than Jesus, would not admit to his failures and his deluded followers, who are so ignorant of scripture, continue to support him blindly. As Kali pointed out, these are the last days with great deceptions and the only way to be safe and secure is to judge everything by the word of God, and if they do not tally, it means there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20. T B Joshua is a false prophet, but did you ever hear anyone claim to be false ? No, they all profess the name of Jesus, but the Bible speaks of false Christs, another gospel, another spirit and doctrines of demons and T B Joshua is a combination of all these. A word to the wise is enough.

  3. @TB Joshua watch.
    To your post.
    Firstly. Non of these people you talked about ever went to the hospital for check up and this makes the saying that they weren’t actually healed useless. If they had done a test run about their condition and it turns out they weren’t healed then we can say they weren’t.

    2. it’ll becomd a blatant lie to say Scoan discourages them to go for checkup. As Scoan is very much concern that people go for checkup to prove their healing.we see testimonies of people with medical report of their previous situations and after prayer. For the fact that Scoan didnot discourage anyone of going to the doctor to confirm,or discourage them from taking drugs then we can’t say Scoan is to be blamed.

    Now a Third senerio which i believe you never thought of.
    When the pastor declears Mr George free and tells him he had money in his account and George refuse to fetch money from the bank to settle his debt cos he saw it as an act of unbelief.only to always run after the pastor asking if the money was truely there. And now live his entire life in mess condeming the pastor.
    Will the pastor be blamed for George’s state of poverty? Certainly No!

    @Mr Terrific.
    I just hope that someday your children who are learned will have the opportunity to visit this site and see how their father messes himself all in the name of hatred for one man. You had better realise your mistakes before it’s too late.

  4. @ Doi,
    Am I now your enemy because I tell you the truth ? Galatians 4:16. Do you accuse me of hatred for exposing TBJ by the word of God ? Is it hatred to judge things by scripture ? Are you happy that TBJ is deceiving and manipulating the Lord’s people to create a kingdom for himself and for Satan ? Do you serve Jesus Christ or do you serve a dubious and false prophet who will not hesitate to kick you out after you have been used as a rag to clean up T B Joshua’s mess ? I pray T B Joshua doesn’t sleep with your wife before you get back to your senses.

  5. @Terrific.
    Point of correction sir?
    I have never read a post you used scripture and it tallys with Tb Joshua’s character. You are only used to words of propaganda. (how he sleeps with this and that, how he snathes people wives, calling him different unreasonable names)
    if am lying proove me wrong now. I would apeal to every one to be quiet and watch I and Mr Terrific deal with this one on one!
    I can’t bear this anymore! How can a man with so much kind gesture and spiritual gifts be seen in such light? If these are of satan then WHERE IS GOD! IS GOD DEAD?
    Ok i want to serve God in a living church. Tell me the name of the church you would advice me to go. Because you don’t even believe there’s God. You believe every pastor is an agent of Satan. Thats your beilef.That what you implied on previous posts. I doubt if you’re a christian.
    May God forgive you. How can God even forgive you when you don’t even believe you are doing the wrong?

    • Good question.

      I may not like TB Joshua, but I don’t believe that he is sleeping around, or that he is an agent of Satan. If THESE allegations are based on the testimonies of Bisola and Paul, then I SERIOUSLY question those testimonies. In the clip I waited to hear the confession (as the narrator relied on) of Suzelle … but it never came. Instead, SO much time was spent on pastor Paul’s “confession” … and the REASON for that was because the narrator wanted us to forget about Suzelle’s testimony. My disagreement with TB Joshua would HARDLY rely on those two. They were full of malice during my stay there. WHAT would have me believe that they would be different years later?
      I couldn’t stand it there, because Papa ignored those who truly wanted to learn, and focused his attention on THOSE two (who eventually betrayed him). But I also realised that the closer I got to him, the more friction I got from his senior disciples (probably the MOST deceitful people at SCOAN, because of their zeal in the man, and NOT in the Spirit). What I SHOULD have done was to push them aside, because the Kingdom of Heaven suffers violence … but I was weak in spirit and character.

  6. Father your word says anything that is not of you will not stand and therefore we should leave it. I Pray today that you be judge not me or anyone else of this site. We put an end to every deceptive work of Satan In the name of Jesus Christ. We shut this site down and any other sites like this, we cripple whoever is behind this and we shut their mouths forever. We expose them wherever they are We put an end to every work of Satan on this site. We make it impossible for them to be able to start reproduce or instigate any such site again in their lives forever. We ask this in Jesus Name Amen. I have prayed and remember Folks not me but God answers prayer.

    • You hate to see your idol exposed, and do not follow the Lord’s command to ” test all things to see whether they’re of God”. 1 Thess 5:21. This site is doing a good job of exposing the lies, deceit and treachery of T B Joshua, by the word of God, and if you don’t want to listen, that’s fine, but your prayer to shut this work down is worthless and cannot stand. Isaiah 8:10. Shame on you, deluded folks !

      • LIKE a LOT!!!
        🙂
        Where’s the “like” button for WordPress??

        I sit here … my eyes opening. It’s such a good feeling. It’s like KNOWING that something was wrong … but we tended to blame ourselves, because
        “WE” had NO faith! “WE” were too sinful to approach God (when in fact He CAME for the sick). And the more we defended SCOAN, the more we believed that we were currying favour with him.
        HOW were the elect so deceived?
        God never left us … but we were led to believe that He did.
        I have the link on my WordPress page under THE LIES TOLD ABOUT TB JOSHUA – which I started yesterday to DISPROVE these allegations against a man I loved and spoke out in favour of.
        Don’t I feel the complete idiot!!! 🙂

  7. How can some one offer such prayers? remenber tb joshua is a human like you and me he can make mistakes, sins,so you thing these people tell lies?? If you love tb joshua pray for him the end is not what you wacth on emmanuel tv. the end is heaven at last for you and me and tb joshua .will you be happy if your brother go to hell? If thir work will help people an bring some change in scoam- then to the lord be the glory.

  8. I was a disciple in 2001.
    My name is Hugh Termorshuizen … from South Africa.

    I initially went for my sister, who was dying from the effects of Sugar Diabetes. She couldn’t go, because she was unable to walk … (or climb the steep steps to the Synagogue), so the pastor of a church in Roodepoort (I think) told a family member (or he could have told me)that I could go as proxy.
    At first it was amazing.
    The week I spent there was truly the most remarkable week of my life. And, during the prayer meeting (for my sis) I was asked what illness I had, and I said asthma. Papa said that he’d pray for me, too, and I thought “wow! Nao faz mal!”
    But before that meeting at the close of the week, we were given the option to confess our sins … which I grabbed. It was at the time that Wium Basson was there, and I was disappointed to see how the Safricans made such a fuss of Wium – a man they placed in higher regard to all others in the prayer line … making of him their hero (which pissed me off), and so I decided to go against their advice (to ignore the public confession), but to go to the upper room for confession among the Safrican tour group alone … and I was one of three who chose to do it Papa’s way. And that was difficult – when you consider that a true confession is not a pity party, but the naked exposure to the things you have DONE … and in a way that doesn’t candy-coat it.
    And I believe that that was the reason that only the three of us were invited back as disciples … something I was too excited about. I wanted to be baptized in the Holy Spirit.

    Going back was hell.
    I had to return after every month, to satisfy my VISA requirements, but during each of the 3 or 4 months I was there I slept VERY little, and for the rest walked around in a state of limbo, making notes until the early hours of the morning.
    But it was the constant threat of “being sent back” that controlled me. I blamed it on my sinfulness – sleeping with my girlfriend when I was back home, or smoking cigarettes when I was back home … a life wrought with legality. The backstabbing and the cold-heartedness of the other disciples pissed me off NO end. My sister passed on while I was there, and I realized that not everyone was healed – something I could accept … but to be disconnected from the internet, speaking to my family (and I think Bisola was responsible for that – but that mattered little, when it was a disciple that disconnected me, left me furious. I wanted to speak to Papa … and was told to wait outside his room for 5 minutes. I spent all night there alone, until a fellow disciple told me to go sleep. I was awoken two hours later (if that long) for meeting, and I told the disciples (an entourage of them) to tell Papa to get stuffed. I was disillusioned. Bitter.
    But fear got the better of me, and I went downstairs with my tail between my legs, expecting to be berated by him … but I wasn’t. He showed love, compassion and understanding … which was confusing to me, as I never spoke to him at other given times … either getting info from other disciples, or guessing my way through the mire of unknowingness.

    But it was after the 3rd or fourth trip back that I thought, bugger it!!! I’m not coming back. I was called to his office, where all the other disciples were kneeling before him, and I was offered a seat next to him. We watched previous church services (involving a friend of mine who was a disciple for a number of years there), where he told me that the man looks like a real Afrikaner “boer” … laughing at him (I don’t think maliciously, though), but I said nothing. Maybe he just wanted to connect.
    But I wanted to connect more than one self-serving disciple … none moreso than when I saw the junior prophets on display disgracefully for something they did wrong.
    ”WHAT a life!” I thought … but I believed in him. It was too good NOT to.
    On the day that I left, I knelt before him (as we were prone to) during exit interviews, but he said nothing. I wanted to ask him what I did to piss him off (it wasn’t one specific thing – it was a real vibe … a gut-wrenching fear being there. I believed it to be “character-training”, but wondered WHAT I was being taught in fear. I always thought that perfect love cast out fear … but there was no love and NO compassion among the devotees … and I saw THEM more than Papa.
    But I said nothing on the day that I left.
    He said nothing to me either.
    He gave a devotee taking us to the airport an envelope, and told him to give it to me at the airport … but said nothing to me, so I thought “stuff it”.
    At the airport I had to remind the devotee to give me the envelope – which he reluctantly did, asking me if I was coming back. I told him yes, thereby making myself guilty of lying and stealing from TB Joshua … because the envelope contained the $800.00 needed for me to get back.

    I never heard from anyone in the SCOAN again … despite mine and another disciple’s efforts to reach him. We were ignored … and in truth it bothered us.
    But I never realized how much it bothered me until this past week, when watching “Jonesville”. It amazed me to think that I thought back on my days at SCOAN (and NOT because I believed it to be a cult – I cannot say. In truth I have NO idea what goes on there, when not ONE of the people I met who was claimed to be healed, survived. If maintaining the healing was a prerequisite of God, we all failed … every ONE of us.
    In truth I even attacked people for criticizing him last night … but NOW I think, f@!k that little fat Nigerian manipulator!! If he wants to pour out Holy Spirit fire on me for saying so, by all means, DO!!! If THAT is, unfortunately, the ONLY way to get Holy Spirit to communicate with me in a real and clear way (by criticizing and cursing him), by ALL means!!! I’ll GLADLY admit to being wrong. I have NO pride!
    But I never want to see him again UNLESS it’s to find out how Suzelle is …

    I called SCOAN’s Cape Town office today, and was met by a very cautious female evangelist (paranoid, in fact), before speaking to Sybrandt, who told me that Suzelle left 8 years ago. I just wanted to know if any of the OTHER disciples got what they went there for, but he would divulge NO info.
    I now listen to Smith Wigglesworth’s commentary on the Bible.

    Am I a Christian? NO!! I am a sinner of the worst kind … an adulterer, a sex fiend and druggie. SO! Certainly NOT a christian by TB’s standards. Who WANTS to be? My conversion now depends on God;’s Grace through Jesus Christ, my Lord. I leave it to God. I am by no means good, let alone righteous. But I thank God for Samson, Jesus and Smith. My salvation NEVER depended on my works … never on what I “do” … but on my faith in Jesus Christ alone And if Jesus is the author and finisher of my faith, I’ll leave it to Him … and not that f@!king fat charlatan. My ties and any debt to SCOAN are OVER. I cannot believe that a merciful God is represented in that man. Is he a Christian? Is HE for real? I truly don’t know. And I truly don’t care.

      • Ag, it’s over, Ian.
        OVER!
        But there was NO torment for me there. Just disillusionment!
        In saying so, I have to say that I don’t rely on the testimonies of Bisola and Paul who accuse TB Joshua of the being an anti-christ or sex abuser. THAT was not MY experience. I can only judge what I KNOW! I may disagree with TB, but NOT as a christian. I cannot (not being one myself) judge who is christian and who is NOT.

        I hate being the monster who hates … or one who wants to bring dissension in ANY church of Christ (even in SCOAN). I’ll have to face God’s correction … but if Saul was a great persecutor of the church in his devotion to God, I thank God for that. It gives me a fighting chance.

        It’s wrong for me to attack him (TB Joshua) like that (even if I disagree with him), because THAT is not the fruit and work of the Spirit … and for that I am truly sorry. I sincerely ask everyone for forgiveness for that outburst (and more specifically him) … I have NO excuse for doing so. It’s stupid to attack the character assassin with an assassination of my own. For all I know it may just be the disciples who believe that they are the chosen ones who my anger was vented against. I don’t know.

        But ..
        I want peace. And I believe that I have it. I leave TB to his disciples, and wish them all the blessings that are deserving of the Kingdom of God … but dust my feet off on them. In truth, I want people out there to be even less like me than they are of TB Joshua. It is NOT my place to judge, but I am even less convinced of “other” churches out there than I am of SCOAN. THAT’s the irony.
        I am at fault in attacking him, but leave it at that with a prayer to YHWH that my salvation depends entirely on His grace through Jesus Christ, who came in the flesh, but overcame it with the help of HIS Father, and through NO synagogue or church that He belonged to. I will labour into His rest and leave it at that.
        God Bless, and Shalom.
        MY chapter with TB is now closed. I thank him for all he did for me, and all I learnt through him.
        And for all you out there my prayer is that the grace of the Lord be with you always … may it keep and protect you (and unlike me, may you give heed to His voice)
        Amen!

      • Hi Hugh. Good to have your comments. I agree with you that we can’t take Bisola and Paul’s testimonies as fact. However, an equally bad reaction would be to claim that they are definitely false which is what current disciples of TBJ do. Only God, TB Joshua and those making the allegations know the truth for sure. The reason I don’t disregard them are as follows: 1) They are incredibly serious allegations, any so called Man of God who has people accusing him of something like this has serious issues. 2) They allegations are numerous. Bisola is the most high profile one because she went public, but I have spoken to someone personally who has almost identical claims, and you know how it is when you speak with someone face to face, you get a feeling as to whether they are sincere. While I can’t claim 100% that it is the truth (I wasn’t there), I strongly believe that she is sincere, and she lost an awful lot as a result.

        This is why I support the existence of this site, it asks questions that others aren’t free to ask. It gives a voice to those who SCOAN has tried to silence. See this link for an example of how SCOAN tried to silence this blog, ask yourself why they would try to do this? https://tbjoshuawatch.wordpress.com/2011/09/11/scoan-attempts-to-blackmail-tb-joshua-watch/

    • Wow. Thanks Hugh for sharing your experience. Your account completely confirms the evidence about life at SCOAN that has been written before on this site.

      • I have NO fear of telling MY experience out there, and condemn ANYone who is too afraid of using their identities to condemn a man of ANY kind (be it of God or otherwise.)
        As a visitor I had ENORMOUS peace at SCOAN. THAT tells me that God was present. But as a disciple I had nothing but fear of reprisal and falling OUT of the favour of God by NOT pleasing the disciples there. So – where was God missing? With TB, or with the disciples?
        I don’t know …
        As far as the healing is concerned I have my reservations. But I went there for Holy Spirit … NOT healing. I truly believed that TB was the ONLY one who could provide it at the time.

      • WOW, Ian …

        AMAZING, huh??

        Shit! I HOPE that they reveal my video-taped confession, I have NOTHING to hide anymore. In fact, I’ll make it easier for them by publicly confessing my sins HERE!!!
        Jesus was GLORIFIED through the public humiliation He faced. He sweated blood in the Garden ion fear of it … but he CHOSE to go through with it, BECAUSE His Father’s will be done. I am not Jesus. Sin is found in ME … but IF that is the WILL of GOD (and NOT mine), I, too, will bear the consequences of a public humiliation AGAIN.

        Here, then is my confession: I do not do so for recognition. I don’t want it. I do so ONLY because THAT appears to be the product of the SCOAN operation.


        [Confession removed by the moderator – Hugh, your honesty is admirable, but there is no need for you to confess like this in public. If you have confessed before God, “he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” 1 John 1:9. If this is the case for you, your sins are wiped clean. Love keeps no record of wrongs, and nor will we by letting them be published on this site! ;-)]


        But I make NO promise to God NOT to sin again (as SCOAN encourages) as I am forbidden to make ANY promise to God.
        Amen
        Amen!

    • Hi Hugh. A really moving testimony. Ephesians 2 8+9 says ‘it is by grace we are saved, not by works, so no one can boast.’ (NIV). Remember you cannot earn salvation, God gives it freely to all who ask. And he doesn’t ask any of us to be perfect – no matter how perfect anyone aims to be, they won’t ever succeed so relax and concentrate on God. He will help you to be the person he wants you to be. So can a druggie, sex fiend sinner also be a christian? You bet! I am a christian and I am also a sinner. Funny thing is that God has shown me over and over again that it doesn’t matter how useless I am at being a christian, he still loves me. You want his love, you acknowledge him as lord, you repent of things you do wrong – sounds like a christian to me.

  9. Well .. I STILL invite those pack-mules to embarrass me publicly 😉
    I live under the protection of God, through Jesus Christ our Saviour, through the BELIEF that He is the Son of God, who came in the flesh as propitiation of OUR sins.
    I have peace with God.
    I have done ALL I can, and leave the rest to Him. May He strengthen us daily in our walk, so that we do NOT backslide. Jesus is my Saviour. NO-one and nothing ELSE!!
    HE alone meets MY needs.

    I believe that I will now go out and do something constructive 😉

    We should get together for a coffee sometime. I’d love to catch up with all the old disciples … see how they’re doing, and put everything to rest. Those who were hurt should be able to RELY on those of us with similar experiences, and harbour NO ill-feeling to SCOAN, but rely on what it is that brought US together … the love, peace and grace of our Lord, Jesus Christ. Even if ONLY for the sake of letting the other know that we can support each other as Jesus wanted us to.
    If I felt like a failure in EVERY way on my return, what makes it impossible to believe that others never felt the same. I promise them nothing but an ear and support.
    I identified myself, because I don’t wnat those who read these blogs to think that they’ll be exposing themselves without validation. It’s EASY for ex disciples to look on this and say “Yes … but HOW do I know that these claims are true, when people don’t identify themselves?”
    Consider that for a moment.
    Each one probably came back jealous of those who stayed behind, feeling that “they” (those who remained) were the blessed and chosen. I want all the best for Papa, but even MORE for those out there who were once like me … frightened of reprisal, and debilitated by fear.
    I PROMISE not to preach 😉
    I promise not to teach! 😉
    All I want is communion and the peace abiding in others that they were not alone.

    God Bless TB joshua .. and God Bless my brothers and sisters who felt betrayed and left in the wilderness. You are more than welcome to contact me. I’ll forward my details to the moderator if he wishes 🙂

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