Repost: The State of African Christianity

The following is a post we published back in 2011. Since we now have a far wider audience, it seems appropriate to post it again, particularly after recent discussions on “deliverance”.

This article by a Zambian pastor and blogger, entitled “Nigerian Religious Junk”, is a fascinating but damning indictment of a certain brand of African Christianity. The author is writing about a wider trend and doesn’t name names. However, people concerned about TB Joshua and the Synagogue Church of All Nations will be familiar with much of what he describes.

(http://www.conradmbewe.com/2011/02/nigerian-religious-junk.html)

He argues that this new African ‘junk’ Christianity is a potent blend of the prosperity gospel of US megachurches and some of the less wholesome aspects of traditional African religions and culture. Some of the features of this new African christianity:

They exalt the personality of their founding father, who is still alive somewhere in Nigeria (or elsewhere) and is treated with the aura of a state president or paramount chief.”

It is all about image and power. This “man of God” claims to hear the voice of God and proceeds to minister to you accordingly. If you do not obey him you are resisting the ministry of God into your life.”

And he says this about the parallels with traditional African religions:

Just as the witchdoctor appealed to us by inviting us to see him for spiritual protection or when we were struggling with bad luck, childlessness, joblessness, illness, failure to attract a suitor for marriage or to rise in a job or get a contract, etc., these pastors do precisely the same thing. So-called prophetic utterances are made which explain why all this is happening, holy water or oil is prayed over and dispensed, and some money is extracted from the persons seeking help.

The motivating factor is not reconciliation with God through Christ but rather “deliverance” from perceived evil and to be blessed through the supernatural powers that “the man of God” possesses. Let’s face it: this is our African traditional religions coming into the church through the back door.”

It’s worth reading the full post. For Europeans, with limited knowledge of African culture and religion, it is valuable to have an African viewpoint that shows the bigger picture. Some of those who defend SCOAN put certain dubious elements of SCOAN life down to cultural differences, saying it’s the “African way” of doing things. This article is reassuring; it shows that while the SCOAN way may be one African way of doing things, it is certainly not the only African way.

194 thoughts on “Repost: The State of African Christianity

  1. Let both grow together until the harvest …………..

    Mat 13:24 Another parable put he, Jesus, forth unto them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field”.
    Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way.
    Mat 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
    Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field, from whence then hath it tares?
    Mat 13:28 He said unto them, “An enemy hath done this”.
    The servants said unto him, “Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up”?
    Mat 13:29 But he said, “Nay, lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them”.
    Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “Gather ye together first the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn”.

    • Thank you, Joshua watch, for this article; ” Nigeria religious junk”, I want to attent to the part in the message about :” The impregnated girls”. in the church, and the moral un-disciplined pastors, who have free behavior, to do what they want, without being corrected. TB Joshua has impregnated his female disciples, “to abundant the flesch”. Its a crime to the free will of this girls, even when it looks as if they agree, because they believe blind the solutions of the Profhet. They become mediums, vessels, to be used for minor-profhetical revelation. Its compleet insanity , and a mis-use of the right development of a spiritual proces. The impulsive and extreem actions of the profhet, are a sign of a man, who has no single controle any-more over what is right and wrong, high or low, earthly or heavenly. Its bizar exploring humanly needs and desires, and it ignores compleetly the Love of God for his people in it. Iwill not stop to go against what is happening behind the scene of Scoan.

      • “Your Your Lordship, Your Honor Jamie”, you wrote here hard accusation:

        “TB Joshua has impregnated his female disciples”. Proove it !!!!

        If not “Your Honor, Jamie” you will have to give account to one Lawgiver and Judge – Jesus Christ who is ready to judge the living and the dead and He is standing ready at the door to do it !!!

      • Candle Holder; Hard accusation? Are you kidding? Saterday 14 days ago, the profhet annouched, that the female disciples had; abondened the flesch. , and made a vow to it. He congratulated them by handshaking. This part of the service is not in the video any-more! I am not the slightest afraid for the judgement, I do not blashfemied the Holy Spirit. Not in the profhet, and not in others. I take charge towards the intentions and motives behind the actions of the profhet that are on personal selffisch levels,.and have nothing to do with a ministerie of God. If you learn to know the profhet in a nearer way, you will discover his accusations and burdens he put un-to others. He is compleetly blind to the effects and consequenties of his actions.

  2. For an in depth study on how the Bantu Prophets in Africa is connected to the politics,

    buy the Book:

    Bantu Prophets in South Africa by Bengt G M Sundkler (Feb 26, 2004) –

    Click on:

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?index=books&linkCode=qs&keywords=0227172337

    or

    http://www.amazon.com/Prophets-Africa-International-African-Institute/dp/0197241611

    You will understand how TB Joshua functions in Africa as a Bantu prophet and his function in the political arena.

    This is just one part of his fruitcake church.

    They have got spiritual powers-make no mistake and do help people, but……….

    at what cost?

    We keep on praying for tbj as well.

  3. I’ve been to a few other churches pretty similar to SCOAN. They each think they are different and better than all the rest, though they’re all the same- they preach the same things, they do the same miracles and most have their own media of some sort. All have bumper stickers or billboards of the founding pastor.
    Very few speak of Jesus Christ like they should

    • Giles, yes , this is my expereince too. Remember; there is no anoiting profhet needed, to receive from God. The anoited-buzziness from today, has less to do with the Apostolic anoited disciples of the old ages. If the teachings of the profhet and other pastors should be right and revealing the Truth of the bible for every-one, in steat of a selected group, then
      every-body should be able to receive the gifts of the spirit. God still calls his servants today. And the wise-men, and most so-called anoited servants, are not called, they are just impregnated by each-other. The real anoited profhetical servants receive the teachings they need by spirit, and they dont need a mentor or pastor to guide them.

  4. The prophecy given by the Lord Jesus in Matthew 24:24 is being fulfilled before our very eyes. Yes, many false prophets have taken over and are destroying the Lord’s people. As I have said again and again, the problem is massive biblical ignorance on the part of the people. Even false prophets like T B Joshua with his ignorance of Scriptures and little education, is able to deceive many intellectuals because of their ignorance of the Scriptures. The false prophets are thriving because the people are ignorant, but sooner than later, they would come out of their delusion and see the false prophets for who they really are. It’s just a matter of time. May the Lord grant us true shepherds who would feed His flock so they would not be dismayed any longer. Jeremiah 23:1-4.

    • How can you be good Mr Terrific, speaking all the time false unproved accusation? Why they are like a cloak wrapped about you, like a belt tied forever around you?

  5. The other correlation with these types of churches is with titles. They LOVE making names for themselves. Some (other than tb) refer to themselves as “prophet so-and-so”, “evangelist so-and-so”, “apostle”, “man of God” is common, Son of Man also…(ok, joking about son of man 😉
    Scoan have added to this list with the title “wisemen”.

    I think the smartest thing I have heard someone say about this is John Paul Jackson, below


    fwd to 35:15.

    That says it all in a nutshell

  6. “Your Honor Jamie”

    You say ““TB Joshua has impregnated his female disciples”. Proove it !!!!

    If not, you testify against TB J without cause, using only your lips to decive, charging only false accusation, clothed with disgrace. What for is to bring serious charges, which you could not prove?

    • Candle Holder,: man, read this site, and see what more great moral acts TB Joshua is able to do with his female disciples. I dont have to proove ,I am one of the impreganated women, without asking for it. TB Joshua “can do all things”.

    • I really agree with you Candel holder. If all the allegations of killing and impregnating his female disciples is true why hasn’t someone came out in the open to say it? with DNA proof that TBJ is the father? What are people waiting for if he is a criminal go and arrest him! Me and my family are beneficiaries of prayers from SCOAN. So I for one will say, just like Jesus was accused of being possessed by evil spirits when he was casting demons out of people. He asked, can demons cast themselves out? Can evil work against itself? If you are a true Christian then you know the answer to that. I for one believe that he is not a God he is just being used by God to do his work. That is why people can’t just leave that man alone because the anointing is too much. If he was nothing people would not get so worked up about him as to create lies and discredit his name. While his ministry keeps on growing and millions of people go there to seek help. God will only work through people he will not came down from heaven to help the needy or do his work. I rest my case.

    • Ask Jamie why she can not prove it even by medical examination ? Tell me Giles , why insulting and accusing people entered into Jamie’s body like water, into her bones like oil ?

      • candle holder, since I met TB Joshua, I learned how to fight back his insults, accusings and his nasty judgings. I can do all things with the word too. Believe me, dear litte lamp, I am gone confront him with his own deceived and insane weapons.

  7. The person who wrote this artcile is so right.
    No African country is speared from UnGodly men like these.Here in Malawi we have our own prophets, Bishops,Apsotles you name it.I sure soon we will also have cardinals, popes added to the list.
    Everyone wanting to chose a bigger title than each other.
    And everyone wanting to perform a more amazing mircale than the other.They all start of with a really bad suit then a fee months down the line they are in silk Gucci suits and expensive Italian shoes.
    I once visited a Pentecostal church one, the pastor said that you are not blessed because you do not help your pastor.
    Mind you this was here in Malawi, when I visted another church in South Africa it was the same thing.
    Mind you 2 different countries, 2 different churches
    They were both Pentecostal but different churches.
    I am yet to go to a pentecostal church where the pastor will teach on something either than the state of ones finances.
    It’s always the more you tithe the richer you will become.
    Oh yes the endless text messages one will have once you give your number for meetings and what not.
    God is being marketed not to win would but to get more money on Sundays.
    It’s amazaing how in Nigeria some of the richest people are church founders or owners.
    People are being led astray spending alot of time on how to get rich that worrying about souls.

  8. I spoke to an African Prophet the other day. I asked him about someone who gave me a prophetic word 3 years ago but heard later from someone that she might not have sourced the word from the Spirit of the Living God. The accusations against her were hearsay and some inconclusive evidence.

    He asked me 2 things about her. Does she preach Jesus Christ?(Upon which I had to answer yes) and secondly do the people accusing her have conclusive proof, real hard evidence and I said no. He said something that really spoke to me, that God uses imperfect vessels to speak through. Even he(the prophet I met) has been accused of being a witch. He said that is something he deals with a lot but has to carry on preaching. You can always measure a Word against the Bible and reject it if it does not pass the test.

    I have been on a prophetic course for alomost a year now. A few of the Senior gray haired prophets have prophesied over me not always 100% correct as we(human beings) only know in part. God does not reveal everything to us.I knew a small boy who went to a crusade with a tumor in his eye but he was not healed and died shortly afterwards. The same pastor held a crusade earlier and God healed a man instantly who had a withered arm and hand for 22 years.(I knew about him and his arm literally grew out) The man did not serve God but when the pastor told the crowd to do something they could not do before he tried to straighten his arm, his arm became warm and his arm and hand which was withered and the size of a childs grew out to a normal mans size.

    Why him and not the child, I don’t know but in the fulness of time all will be revealed.

    We live in a broken and confused generation. If you are looking for perfection under man you will search forever. Many men of God have dissapointed me but I have also dissapointed people. The fact remains that most of them are true men of God but they also make mistakes.

    I also ask questions for which I don’t get answers to, but

    • I must say this blog over the past year has only served one purpose and that has been to break down my faith and I feel do a lot of hurt and bring dissension in the Kingdom of God. This blog has not yielded good fruit and brought positive change in people lives and the world as a whole but only to break down and destroy.

      • Sorry you feel like that. Perhaps this blog is not a good site for you to visit right now, instead – why not get involved in a local church with humble and God fearing leaders, not those who promote themselves? Having seen people leave the clutches of TB Joshua and SCOAN, we can believe that the process can feel like your faith being broken down, but take heart – faith built on a false foundation is better broken down than built up. Let your circumstances be an opportunity for you to build up a true faith based on the rock of Jesus Christ rather than any self proclaimed prophet.

        It is true that we should not expect perfection in a man, the problem with TB Joshua is there is so much deception in his ministry, and he’s done nothing to address it. What about the failed (but covered up via video editing) prophecies? The people he “healed” who then died? His followers who call him the Christ? The many allegations of sexual assault? All but the last point are facts – the allegations of sexual abuse may not be proven in court, but the number of claims is extremely worrying.

      • SCOAN destroyed any interest my dad had in the Lord. He concluded every church is just out to get fame and money whilst throwing terminal cases like his wife away. My brother, who is a Christian, also was greatly effected by SCOAN. For both people, it was not that she died. It was the callous way SCOAN were not interested anymore once she had passed a certain level.
        When I left Scoan, it did occur to me that maybe they’re all the same as TBJ- all the miracles are faked, etc (if you look at Godchannel, all they ever seem to preach about is how to get rich, involving giving your money to the preacher).

        I would advise you to forget you ever heard of TB Joshua, including TB Joshua Watch.

        Do what we did. Find a small local church – someone who is not famous or controversial, who does not have their own tv station, who does not have a divisive nature with umpteen “anti”-blogs “revealing the truth” behind him.
        Start over. Small church, with people who listen to a sermon, study the Bible, worship Jesus and get to know each other’s lives.
        Coming out of such a TBJoshua-centric, Big Brother atmosphere in scoan uk, this small unknown east London church we discovered was a breath of fresh air and one of the happier times for my wife and I.

        While I agree with that “African prophet” with those 2 conditions, I disagree that there are only two conditions. Jesus said you shall know them by their fruit. When I was part of scoan, I was obsessed with TB Joshua, spoke more about him than Jesus and became very hard. Looking back, I had no relationship with the Lord, but was instead focussed on getting noticed in anyway possible by “the man of God”. I am not alone.

        As far as proof goes – to demand solid evidence, while at times is reasonable, at other times is impossible. How on earth does a woman “proove” that a man raped her (Julian Assange and his sexual allegations touched upon this issue).
        If one woman says this about a minister, then no I’m not sure I would believe straight away. If this is a consistent pattern – many different women all saying the same story, then even if there is no “solid proof”, I would begin to listen more seriously to what they were trying to say.

      • @ Concerned (@concernedone….This is exactly what I have been telling the owners of this Blog.. you think you are doing good but really you are not.. I have also gone through your blog and the way you are going about what you want to achieve will not bring forth fruit… I say pray to God to reveal something special that you can show to people and they will believe that Tb Joshua is a fraud… You lay blanket accusation on pastors in Africa and in Nigeria in particular… Show us your a man of God with no fault… I have been privileged to attend a service of a famous Nigerian preacher while in the USA and i was blessed when i attended it.. I left that place desiring more of God in me.. the same pastor has a world of accusation against him leveled by fellow christian.. ( this pastor is not TB Joshua)..

        There is a flamboyant pastor in NIgeria that I stumbled onto some of his teaching while I was in Africa…. (not Nigeria, ive never been to Nigeria).. the teaching of this preacher..they were heart lifting..faith building… he taught me how to overcome a mountain when all you saw said you wont overcome this one.. such words as..”when you get to an obstacle, you have been praying, you have been fasting n doing all those godly things and nothing seems to move, at that moment close your eyes and walk in the name of Jesus, the mountain you think exists, does not actually exist….” this words made me achieve a life long dream that I thought I would never achieve..something i had been longing for since i was a child but I had no one to help but the day I closed my eyes n walked..(not close my eyes in the literal sense of it, but just ignoring my existing circumstance and doing what a human being in my situation would not do) is the day I saw the hand of the Lord..I had strangers (ASIAN) am not Asian… but complete strangers reached out to me.. some even said to me that ‘i am not related to you why should i help you’ but they still helped.. A life time dream that need over 50, 000 $ to achieve was realized.. This is because i listened to this flamboyant nigerian pastor tapes n teaching..I never sent him nothing, not a cent… nothing… BUT if i tell you the accusations against him… yeah he has been accused of impregnating church member is countries he has branches.. yeah I read that… its the same pastor God used to reach out to me when I would have lived without realizing a life long dream.. a dream i had when i was child… just listening to this man got me there… NOW i know you have but this pastor among the pastor that produce junk in Africa.. this same man saved my life/made me whom i am right now.. I have tasted success in life because i listened to him… i don’t attend his church..noo and ive never sent him money.. all i gained from him was words..words that changed me..

        because of his flamboyancy people say he is money minded… i mean the list of accusations is huge..

        So back to TB Joshua… give me proof he impregnated a lady, did she abort?? where is the child if not aborted?? i mean give us more then these.. because this pastor you allege to be fraud has thousands going to him.. I see his wise men telling people its Jesus who delivered you.. so they are putting on a good front and you need more than these to bring him down.. as i have told you a pastor accused of the same accusations you level at TB Joshua (impregnating a church member) helped get me where I am so you see why am a little skeptical.. Find a better way to do these.. pray about this alleged false prophet that God would show you a better way to exposed him, because what you are doing is destroying more christian than helping, we christian destroy the body of christ from within than even non believers do..

        if i had stuck to a local church mentality I wouldn’t have stumbled on the DVD and tapes that got me here..my pastor certainly though anointed couldn’t give me these life keys that i need at that time.. Thank God for TV i got those life keys..so why stick to a pastor with no tv channel..

  9. Jesus said if you are rich, you are at a disadvantage when it comes to getting into heaven.
    (Its harder for a richman, camel, etc).
    Not impossible, but He did say it was harder.

    • If Jesus Christ don’t want me to become rich, then he will force me to become unemployed and be lazy for the rest of my life. I become rich because I work very hard. What is the point?

  10. I have another question for Candleholder.

    Lets say TB Joshua is innocent. None of these charges levelled against him are true.

    My question is what type of accountability system is in place in SCOAN- which INCLUDES TBJ – to prevent him from ever falling into sin? How does he remain accountable to the church?

    As everyone can see, supposing he did fall into sin, all he would have to do is deny it and everyone would believe him.

    How would scoan prevent this?

  11. I would give you the answer, but first put me this way:

    He needs Giles and blog “TB Joshua watch”. If he can not be accountable to the church there must be Giles with his fellows to become “The Lordship” to judge him.

    Is this the biblical solution Giles for it, that you created and practice?

  12. Let hear what the Bible says,

    “ Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but TEST THE SPIRITS to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world” – John 4:1

    Testing is not judging.

    It is a command of God to test the spirits. Don’t be scared or cowardly submissive.

    Remember you are sinning if you do not test the spirits, bcause God’s Word ecpects it of you.

    Especially in these last days!

  13. candle holder; the profhet has 5 apostolic wise-men. A part of the job of the apostle is; to teach morality and to correct, advize and rebuke when this issue is not honoured the way the Bible teaches., But the wise-men are parrots, who can only talk as Tb Joshua talks. Why do you need to protect the profhet? Why dont yo have the same heart for the people who became victum of his mission?

  14. Giles, because you are not ashamed to be a judge above Jesus, He will not be ashemed to put you under his judgment. Speaking about your Christian faith and your righteousness will not help you. You are as rotten inside, as rotten are your accusation, you are as purge inside as purge are your words. Become healthy in your faith.

    • candle holder; are you accusing Giles? How come? Infected by the tb Joshua – virus? You dont believe that a profhet who has a hidden agenda is “rotten”? We are not allowed to judge the corrupts ways of a profhet, but you are allowed to condemnate the victums of it? You have a strange way of being righteous. The coloured version of the profhet-tb Joshua-clan.

  15. Candle holder; we can! Because we joined scoan for a while, so we learned the finesses of using the word against others! The profhet is a good teacher, very Godly.

  16. Dear Giles, do you accuse each other in your inner circle as well? I just mentioned this because Jamie called you ” a victim” or “a victum”

    • Candle holder, what a silly provocation,… do you have more in store? Common sense and christian-quality? Maybe you should read this site? For a breath-taking journey about your beloved profhet? Or reading the bible? Give it a try, and you will see how your eyes will be opened., for the truth of tb Joshua.

      • Jamie your false accusations are silly provocations. Do you have more in store? Where is your common sense and christian quality in it? Maybe you should read Bible more? TB Joshua is not my beloved and what about your eyes? Don’t you read: first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

  17. for Joel again, sorry I forgot to mention-

    Its not “all” Nigerian pastors. I’ve known a few from there, Ghana and Botswana who as far as I know are sound.
    But a church that
    -calls their leader “Daddy”
    -films people’s confessions and then broadcasts them on the internet as blackmail
    -DOES NOT PRACTISE BAPTISM
    -refuses to admit their leader sins
    -DOES NOT PRACTISE COMMUNION

    I said it before Joel, and I’ll say it again. Forget the women’s allegations, I’m not sure there is any proof you would accept, if I’m honest with you.

    But these other traits are serious warning lights.

    Do you really think there is nothing odd with a church that does not baptise anyone, nor do holy communion?

    • Giles i watched him yesterday online and I must say I saw somethings i didnt like.. but I also saw men broken by troubles that honestly unless you have such a Tv channel these people would never know that their might be solution to their problem.. I have lived with someone who get angry at the slightest provocation, even something that you would brush aside this person would get angry for days and wont speak to you.. they get so angry that veins pop out of their head and neck..i mean this is super angry.. and in that moment they destroy things..they beat up their spouses..the list of things they do is endless.. how would you explain this if not a demonic attack.. you can go to counseling sessions all you want but never get a solution to this problem.. I have seen people who never get married… a lady, she is rejected by every man that comes along..some just use her and dump her and when I ask her whats in her heart she tells me that..all those time she has met these men she was honestly seeking a spouse but it never works out.. and she is heart broken.. in trying to get a man she even offer to sleep with them not in a loose way but she thinks maybe if i share this intimate moment with him he will marry me.. but all me disappoint her.. this are the story I see Tb Joshua help out people.. and unless they all pretend that they have been delivered because for sure if they did pretend out of all the thousands he prays for someone or atleast couple hundred will come back and say he is a fraud..but a majority go away healed and live a good life.. i see clips of them years later..

      If you met a lady as i have described above, gone through such heart break.. and one day she is delivered through what I see at TB joshua….. you will know why I ask for more proof.. I read someone say that the deliverance should be done in private.. how will people with such problems ever come out if you as a pastor have a solution but only offer it in private… I saw someone (a muslim) who suffered in secret say how she watched Tb joshua Tv in secret and because it was on air for all to watch she was able to see that there is a solution to her problem… think for a second how would such a woman who is forbidden to relate with anything christian ever get to know there is a solution for her if there wasnt a TV program like TB joshua on air for all to see.. Because it is on air she watched in secret and decided in her heart ill go there.. If this woman really got what she was looking for.. then this good surpasses any wrong i saw in TB joshua yesterday as I watched his program…

      I am not denying there might be a problem at TB joshua..am sure if the owners of this blog are sincere and honest christians then something bad happened to them while at Tb joshua place.. so all i ask is.. more than all these stories you post here.. get a good video recording of some of those things you allege he does… lets see footage of him doing this wrong, post documents here that show proof of your allegations…

      I never knew Tb Joshua doesnt baptize people… as far as i know baptism is a good christian principle and also just a symbolization of something that happened in the inside.. Jesus never baptised to but his disciples did.. so it doesnt hold too much weight for me.. that said, it cause me to wanna know more as to why he wouldnt baptize people… Holy communion is a more serious allegation and I would like to know from him (or his church) why he doesnt do this too…. But these 3 do not show great deviation from what we believe in..and that is christ is the only savior.. these two are christian practices that are good but the pillar of all is salvation which he does proclaim in his church..

      This is my last post on this blog..ill do some more digging to find out what exactly is wrong with Tb joshua..i want some more proof to sway me.. but for now ill remain a neutral… My opinion about this blog is that .. the way it is right now.. you guys are destroying more than building..

      • Joel

        if bqptism to you is just symbilsation then you have no clue what baptism is.
        Read John 3:1-6
        I say to you unless someone is born of water and the spirit, the person is incapable of entering the kingdom of God”.what is being talked about here is baptsim, you can go to church for many years but unless you are baptised you can never enter God’s Kingdom.when one is baptised they are joined in communion with God,they become a part of God’s family.The soul receives an indeliable mark than can not be undone.Baptsim is the most important sacrament a person receives.if you were to die to day your soul would never be with God if you are not baptised.
        Alot of people clam to know the Bible but they don’t.Communion is also very important cause that’s the instruction that Jesus left for on the earth, to break bread and drink wine in remeberance of him!
        A confession is not something has needs to be broadcast live, some people have very embarrasing problems that they would not want the whole world to know about, it’s not like the Kardashain reality show, where they are making money and they want people to see them no!we are talking about ordinary people here!the bad thing about it all is that If they don’t tell their problems then they can’t be prayed for.
        Or it appaling how people are made to line up with placards of what they are suffering from.
        Jesus would not want to humilated people like that,and it’s wrong for scaon to be doing that and using the name of Jesus.I personaly know people who have had private problems, they wanted help but the thought of their neighbours families seeing them on tv with a placard like a cows bell put they off, but they still went cause they felt they would get help from there.
        Malawi is a very small country so if you ar on Emmanuel tv everyone sees and knows your problem.
        A lady was once on tv and everyone was calling each other to watch, the poor lady was so humilated.

  18. for candleholder,

    I think my other question on baptism might have been overlooked. You mentioned that the reason why SCOAN does not baptise people is to stop people boasting that they were “baptised by TB Joshua”.

    But whats to stop other people within SCOAN baptising new believers? Jesus said we should be baptised….why dont they do this in SCOAN?

  19. Jude.
    1 Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James,
    To those who have been called, who are loved in God the Father and kept for Jesus Christ:
    2 Mercy, peace and love be yours in abundance.
    ………..I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people. 4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people,

    WHO PERVERT THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY

    and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord, just like in Sodom and Gomorrah.
    ………12 These people are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm – SHEPHERDS WHO FEED ONLY THEMSELVES – . They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—THEY ARE TWICE DEAD. 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.
    14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones 15 to judge everyone and to convict all of them of all the UNGODLY ACTS they have committed in their ungodliness and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”16 THESE PEOPLE ARE GRUMBLERS AND FAULTFINDERS, THEY FOLLOW THEIR OWN EVIL DESIRES,THEY BOAST ABOUT THEMSELVES AND FLATTERS OTHERS FOR THEIR OWN ADVANTAGE. 17 But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly immoral desires.” 19 These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Holy Spirit.
    24 To Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

  20. The old prophet and the young prophet.
    BEWARE OF EVEN A PROPHET.
    If a PROPHET, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods (gods you have not known) and let us worship them”, you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer.
    The LORD your God is TESTING you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul – Deut 13:1-2
    Remember – The story of the two prophets…………
    7 The king said to the man of God (YOUNG PROPHET), “Come home with me for a meal, and I will give you a gift.”
    8 But the man of God answered the king, “Even if you were to give me half your possessions, I would not go with you, nor would I eat bread or drink water here. 9 For I was commanded by the Word of the LORD: ‘You must not eat bread or drink water or return by the way you came.’” 10 So he took another road and did not return by the way he had come to Bethel.
    11 Now there was a certain OLD PROPHET living in Bethel, whose sons came and told him all that the man of God had done there that day. They also told their father what he had said to the king. 12 Their father asked them, “Which way did he go?” And his sons showed him which road the man of God from Judah (young prophet) had taken. 13 So he said to his sons, “Saddle the donkey for me.” And when they had saddled the donkey for him, he mounted it 14 and rode after the man of God. He found him sitting under an oak tree and asked, “Are you the man of God who came from Judah?”
    “I am,” he replied.
    15 So the prophet said to him, “Come home with me and eat.”
    16 The man of God said, “I cannot turn back and go with you, nor can I eat bread or drink water with you in this place. 17 I have been told by the Word of the LORD: ‘You must not eat bread or drink water there or return by the way you came.’”
    18 The old prophet answered, “I too am a prophet, as you are. And an angel said to me by the word of the LORD: ‘Bring him back with you to your house so that he may eat bread and drink water.’” (BUT HE WAS LYING TO HIM.) 19 So the man of God returned with him and ate and drank in his house.
    20 While they were sitting at the table, the word of the LORD came to the old prophet who had brought him back. 21 He cried out to the man of God who had come from Judah, “This is what the LORD says: ‘You have defied the word of the LORD and have not kept the command the LORD your God gave you. 22 You came back and ate bread and drank water in the place where he told you not to eat or drink. Therefore your body will not be buried in the tomb of your ancestors.’”
    23 When the man of God had finished eating and drinking, the prophet who had brought him back saddled his donkey for him. 24 As he (the young prophet) went on his way and a lion met him on the road and killed him, and his body was left lying on the road, with both the donkey and the lion standing beside it – 1 Kings 13:18.
    Make sure that you hear from God yourself and obey His voice to you.
    Test every word spoken to you.

  21. This is what the LORD says: “Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who depends on flesh for his strength and whose heart turns away from the LORD – Jeremiah 17:5
    Do not put your trust in princes, in mortal men, who cannot save – Psalm 146:3
    It is better to take refuge in the LORD than to trust in man – Psalm 118:8

  22. The only issue i see in both your post and comments is Jemie saying she was one of the impregnated women by T.b. Joshua. Which it doesn’t seem like she knows what she’s saying. And thats what i’ll address later.
    Thanks.,.

  23. im not saying they dont believe in baptism in water…..Im saying they dont do it.

    I’ve been to the “communion” services they do at prayer mountaim – what you have said is deceptive. They hand out tea and chunks of bread, like a refreshment or something.

    Why dont they PRACTISE water baptism?

  24. Giles. Why do you have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own false accusations. Why do you call people confessing the same faith as “plagiarists” and “parrots”? Do you really love evil rather than good, falsehood rather than speaking the truth?

  25. personally im not a fan of hearsay, i will share my personal experience in the born again arena. I knew about the scoan in 2006 via emmanuel tv i was mesmerised by the miracles then. in 2008 i was diagnosed with a chronic illness it was then when i decided to visit the scoan to receive healing and spiritual upliftment.(note- as i continued to watch emmanuel tv i was no longer overtaken by miracles signs and wonders but of the words and teachings), when i went there i was excited and expectant to receive healing,was a visitor for 7days and was put on the prayerline. i was “ministered” to @ the prayerline by one of the wisemen. when i came back home i went for the medical tests (after coming back with 4 bottles of anointing water) the tests proved i was still with the illness, after a few months i did the tests still. i had the illness (when i came back i stopped taking my drugs believing i was healed, though i must admit at the scoan during our counselling the disciples never told anybody ‘openly” to stop taking drugs) i was bitter and angry with God “was i such a sinner that he wouldnt heal me like he has healed all those pipo i see testifying at scoan?” it went on for weeks angry,bitter etc but i thank God oh he loves me so much..he spoke in my heart like always dispite my stubbornness. God told me my child whether on medication or not i can still heal you at my own time, and did i tell you to go to scoan? i can heal you in your own room. i was angry coz i used my credit card for the trip and we were asked to pay +- R9,000.00 for air fare and lodging @ scoan. At that moment i made a conscious decision to stop following miracles signs and wonders from “men of God”.
    Then the interesting part was that till date nobody in our group has been healed of their illness i have been in contact with them non what so ever,others went back for the second time still no healing most if not all of us are just backing back debts for the trip! (its really sad) The said truth , other than our group disappointment, the other four ladies i met there when they got home their problems escalated, husbands completely deserted their homes, finances began to crumble etc i feel so sorry coz these pipo are still holding the faith ordering anointing water bottle after bottle…they seem to see God through “Man of God” held in bondage. One died of cancer after her trip.

    after attending a number of miracle churches,my advise is ;let Christians have a personal rship with God, so that he can give you the spirit of discernment.Today there are so many prophets, pastors using all sorts or materials water, oil but do we actually know what spirits are behind them??? please be careful not to allow evil spirits in your lives. You go out there and receive a miracle but after a short while bigger problems start to occur in your life (doors were opened, satan does not give for free he will later take something from you)

    Next time you want to have a “man of God” lay hands on you its your duty to ask God whether this person is a servant of God or is it Gods time. Holy spirit never lies nor is he a gossiper…you never know some so called men of God, Gods spirit left them years ago and another power is using them to steal kill and destroy children of God.

    Sometimes i ask God why doesnt he expose those who disguise themselves as his servants yet they are servants of satan, the answer is he is God he alone knows why and when its just like asking why didnt God destroy satan that time he rebelled against him in heaven or when he tempted Eve and caused Adam and Eve to sin???? mysteries of God. So dont ask such questions such as why not ask God to expose them…just use his word (Bible) and ask God to direct you by the power of the Holy spirit.
    Some deceptions are very easy to see through them like a church i attended on saturday ;certain ‘men of God”, preaching on angels, glorifying angels (to the point of worshiping angels) Rev19 vs9-10 Psalm91vs11 This is wrong ignoring the Holy Spirit who Jesus asked the Father to be with us.

    It is God who gives command to angels and not humans giving commands to them. angels are servants ,created beings just like us. The only angels that you can command to give you things and do miracles for you are the fallen angels NOT Gods Angels. Angels are messengers (by the way i had an encounter in 2007 with an Angel from God who appeared in human form,who introduced himself as a messenger from God and delivered the message that was it no discussions)

    I almost gave up on christainity but i thank God for his amazing love that im now able to hear him as he now speaks to me directly and he is so forgivining
    . i confessed my sins of rebellion and stubborness. And i get inspired through programmes like Its Supernatural (Sid Roth) of regular people who encounter God, and teachers like Andrew Wommack who just use the word of God, no rituals or funny things just woshipping God in truth and spirit.

    Be Blessed and ask God for the spiritual gift of discernment

    • WorshipGod
      This is what is happeining all over, Prophets or what ever they call they selves deceiving people.
      Some people who comment on this site, Devout TB Joshua followers will still not belive you.
      There is a lady who I know, she told me this story her self.
      She has a grandson who went deaf cause of an illness that even the doctors could not diagnose.Anyway she so wanted to visit Scoan and wanted the anointing water that she was duped a few times by people who told her they would get her a nigerian visa.
      At on point as she was so so desparate to help her grandson son she went to some church.
      The pastor had some water which he told her was Tb Joshua water, then he asked her to close her eyes in prayer, what she saw while praying was she saw her self surrounded by total blackness.after the prayer the pastor asked her what she saw, she did not dare reveal what she saw and he laid his hands on her in prayer but was literaly pushing her down.
      According to her when she was sprayed with the anointing water she felt nothing and she made the comment that when you watch tb spray water on someone something happens.it’s sad that she has so much faith in this man and the incident should have taught her something, but as she was so desprate she went to another fake/ demonic pastor.
      These devils use desparation to lie to people.

    • worshippinggodinspirit, you are a breath of fresh air. Someone who checks what preachers say in the Bible!

      By the way, you and I prolly brushed paths if you were there in 2006. I was the incredibly goodlooking disciple with amazing hair.

      Im sorry to hear about your disappointments, and you touched on a danger of scoan – how you “almost gave up on Christianity” after such a let down. I almost did the same. When I went to afghan I was given bottles of annointing water, which sprayed on my body armour, as well as other’s in my team. This however did not stop them from getting killed, and to say this pulled the rug from under my feet is an understatement. I couldnt stop myself from asking God what had happened, because I had prayed, faith, annointing water, prayer points, confessed what was in my heart, etc.
      Making such audacious claims of healing or protection, or power in some myserious bottle of tap water really sets you up for the shock of your life.

      Sid Roth, I love that show.

      • @giles I think I remember you, you are the goodlooking one! I always used to wonder what happened to you! You know I feel lyk a huge ton been lifted from my chest after I posted my experience. Even though God showed me a dream “not encouraging me to go to scoan” I didn’t want to believe it. Y? Becoz the miracles were too impressive,how culd he not b Gods servant? And who am I a regular joe to judge?? But I’m so glad to God that he picks on a low servant lyl me and gives me the spirit of discernment. I read your article abt how you left, abt your mum,I’m very sorry MHSRIP. I believe you becoz I have been to scoan and so have many pipo I know . I wish I had yo email, let me end here…

  26. worshipgodintruthandspirit, Thank you for your clear story. Its still a great question if the powers of the profhet are real Powers of God. Your story can be a great warning for all thoose people who have to do great sacrifizes in finances, before they are able to come to scoan. And its a consolidation for all those people who became not healed by the touch of the wise-men, and had to believe it was because of their lack of faith. The real worship and devotion towards the Truth of Christ is totally lost in scoan. Its heart-breaking.

    • Thanks Jamie and if I may add I was prayed for by not only by only one wiseman @prayerline but by 2more in the church as they went round in church and by the man himself tb joshua in his office as it was our last day and we were to have a one on one with him by our group

    • Here is a statement that I have heard on emmanuel tv
      The new anointing water then tb joshua says”this new one is father the one before was son” implying the anointing is stronger than the one before.
      To me there is something very wrong here Gods anointing or power is constant it does not come in hierarchy maybe powers from elsewhere if people are going to classify the anointing of God then there is something very wrong which should not be entertained,that’s not in line with Gods word. It was then that I became very skepticle not to follow blindly lest I’m deceived

  27. Jamie, why do you used to always bite in your words: “The real worship and devotion towards the Truth of Christ is totally lost in scoan”. Why your message is always a mixture of truth and accusations? WorshipGodintruthandinspirit wrote a good testimony but you had to add accusation? Why? Because you have satisfaction in accusation?

  28. About the Bantu prophet culture in Africa:

    worshipgodintruthandspirit

    ……….I almost gave up on christainity but i thank God for his amazing love that im now able to hear him as he now speaks to me directly and he is so forgivining………..

    ………… i confessed my sins of rebellion and stubborness………..

    1 IN THE PAST GOD SPOKE TO OUR ANCESTORS THROUGH THE PROPHETS at many times and in various ways,

    2 but IN THESE LAST DAYS HE HAS SPOKEN TO US BY HIS SON , whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.

    After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs – Hebrews 1:1-4

  29. The Bible says:

    “ Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but TEST THE SPIRITS to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world” – John 4:1

    How do we test the spirits?

  30. How do we know when is the word spoken by these ‘prophets’ divination and when is it prophecy?

    How can we test it?

    When is it an evil or ancestral spirit speaking and when is it the Holy Spirit?

    Who can tell us?

    • Just wonder, The Truth of the word is a foundation for the super-natural. This means; the super-natural does not need to proove itself. A man can be one day in The Holy spirit, and the other day in a copy of it.(devilisch). 1 Samuel 10; 6-end. The mixture of Truth and lie, makes the deception.

  31. OFCOURSE I HAVE TO STAND IN THE GAP FOR THE NATION OF ZAMBIA BEFORE THIS DEMON POSSESSED MAN TAINTS OUR NATION, THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS THAT ITS CLEAR THIS MAN HAS A TOOL,WHICH IS A BLOG AND UNLIKE 99% OF ZAMBIANS THEY DON’T HAVE BLOGS SO ITS EASY FOR HIM TO EXPRESS HIS ENVY AND JEALOUS,WHILE AT THE SAME TIME MAKING IT BAD FOR THE REST WHY ATTACKING THE MAN OF GOD, I WAS BORN IN ZAMBIA , I TOO HAVE A BLOG AND AN AUTHOR OF 3 CHRISTIAN BOOKS .TO MAKE AN ADDITION, I M STILL IN MY 20TIES YET I WILL NOT EXHIBIT MY PRIDE TO SOCIETY SO THEY CAN ORDER MY BOOK ,THIS METHOD OF MARKETING OUR LITTLE BOOKS MUST STOP,ITS CLEAR HE LEANED IT AND IS COPYING THESE ACTS FROM HIPPOP ARTISTS IN AMERICA WHO ATTACK EACH OTHER TO MARKET THIS MAN WRITES A BOOK ,WHICH A VERY VERY RARE TASK BY ZAMBIANS AND HE FEELS HE HAS THE UPPER HAND TO EVERYONE AND THERE OPINIONS, HE CLEARLY NEEDS TO HAVE HIS SOUL EXAMINED .SINCE WHEN DID HE BECAME THE RIGHTEOUS JUDGE? WHATS HIS TRACK RECORD? DOES HE FEED THE HUNGRY AND CLOTH THE NEEDY? SOMEONE TELL ME WHICH ORPHANAGE HE IS HELPING BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN TO 90% OF THEM, WHOS SCHOOL FEES HAS HE PAID FOR? AND WHICH HIGH SCHOOL BECAUSE I HAVE THE TIME TO VERIFY .
    EVNY AND JEALOUS SHOULD NOT BE A BASIS FOR MARKETING

    • Tony the write is not only talking about Zambia.this man is writing the truth of what these so called Pastors do.cheating and lieing to people.so what if you have written 3 books,it does not change the fact what is going on here.
      I writing from Malawi not Zambia, we are tired of these kind of preachers. For your information we have such people coming to Malawi from Zambia.Its what is happeing.We did not have these kind of preachers in Malawi untill they started coming in from. Zambia.

  32. For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel–not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. 1 Cor.1,17

    Paul, why do you not practice baptism ? Tell us because Giles has problem with it.

    • Candleholder,exactly wht I was talking about the other day, using words to suit a situation. Taking the words in the Bible out of context.
      People like you can send people souls to hell!
      Please read John 3: 1-6 and see what Jesus says about baptism.
      Maybe the reason why they don’t baptize at. scoan is because the act of baptsim joins ones soul to God, the soul of a baptized person is God’s.what sort of a church does not baptiZe??? Very strange indeed.

  33. Am not new to your site. I have been reading the crap you lot have being writing about TB Joshua. You nearly convince me, but l decided to go to Lagos with my sickness which St Thomas hospital could not heal me of for the past 9 years l have been in and out of hospital for 9 years, but today am healed of my sickness

    • Yes George. Anyone who hasn’t been to SCOAN will get almost convinced with the evil proclaimations of the authors and commenters here. All to know that about 80% of the Authors and people criticising have never seen the 4walls of Scoan. Where do they get their proves from? When they actually haven’t witnessed anything.

      Please readers,
      if you haven’t been to SCOAN and meet T.b. Joshua in person, do not get convinced by the blasphemous comments on this blog. Go and witness for yourselves.* best advice*

      And giles i wonder what you want from Holder. You and i know we’ve long passed this Bamptism stuff. Don’t make it look like it’s something new. I believe it’s still there for Whoever needs it.

  34. @ Candle Holder

    Paul asserts with the utmost clarity whom he did and whom he did not baptize of the believers at Corinth… Paul asserted that “I baptized none of you all there at Corinth EXCEPT for two believers, and their names are Crispus and Gaius.

    Paul then CORRECTS his earlier universal-negation-with-only-two-exceptions assertion. He adds another exception: the household of Stephanas.

    Yes, Paul did baptize some into water in his early ministry. In fact, Paul himself was water baptized by Ananias in Acts 9:18. Paul also circumcised Timothy (Acts 16:3), performed vows and head shavings (Acts 18:18), kept feasts (Acts 18:21), and even raises a man from the dead (Acts 20:10).

    We all know is that water baptism did not begin at Paul. It had been in operation since the Mosaic Law and during Jesus’ earthly ministry and through Pentecost.

    In Matthew 28:19-20 we see the resurrected Lord Jesus commanding the disciples to Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.

    In response Peter at Pentecost offered the crucifixion of Jesus as a testimony to the wickedness of rebellious Israel’s need for repentance. The Jews then present ‘were pricked in their heart’ (Acts 2:36-37).

    Peter’s response was that they should ‘Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.’ This message of repentance and baptism for the remission of sins was the same that John the Baptist taught. The fact that this baptism was into water is evident from Acts 8:36 and Acts 10:47.

    The difference between Paul, John and Peter ? Paul was just not sent to baptize. That’s all there is to it. But Peter was.

    The main problem is here that TB Joshua and his disciples don’t do it either. They think that in operating in these scriptures.

    Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:3-4

    I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Galatians 2:20

    The next problem is does TB Joshua operate in the Spirit of God. Until there is true absolute proof or evidence that this is so, there is no reason to accept what they are doing in SCOAN.

    Romans 6: 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

    What is the evidence that when they were hit by the anointing water that they walk in the newness of life ? To know this you should be able to monitor 24/7 those that have been in contact with that if they really do.

    There is no evidence as such available in SCOAN to monitor that because people come and go and have always new bizarre stories to tell which are accepted like hot cakes to the onlookers.

    Bizarre stories attract people’s curiosity and is used by SCOAN to expand their membership by jumping on top of them filling in a membership form and all kinds of other things.

    Is this what Paul meant for the church to be as described in 1 Corinthians 14 or 1 Corinthians 12:12-26, Ephesians 2:19-22 ?

    I doubt that, because I see chaos, wrong theology, people all the time puking on the floor, worship of humans, secrecy, club forming, the tithing which contradicts what they want to follow about not baptizing, having communion and the like. Jesus never commanded the tithe yet they mention it every Sunday in the church. Following of Scriptures huh ? As they see fit. This on, Oh but that one not. A convenience Gospel instead of doing all what has been instructed.

    • Jesse wrote :

      “Jesus never commanded the tithe yet they mention it every Sunday in the church”

      I am telling you that Jesus receives tithe. Read the Bible better.

      Hebr.7.8 says: In the one case, the tenth is collected by men who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living. Who is declared to be living? Lord Jesus.

      So Jesse if you do not understand tithe what for are you writting such long comment in which you can be wrong too !!!

      Simply another SCOAN accuser.using fine-sounding arguments.

  35. In the African religions, for the prophets to sleep around with woman in their churches is normal. They have no consciousness that it might be wrong.

    Answer to Jamie’ statements,

    “….The impregnated girls”. in the church scoan, and the moral un-disciplined pastors, who have free behavior, to do what they want, without being corrected. TB Joshua has impregnated his female disciples, “to abundant the flesch”…….

    …………”I am one of the impreganated women, without asking for it. TB Joshua “can do all things”………..

    IF JAMIE IS WRONG, then these statements are the most horrible abominable accusations against a man or God or a prophet but

    IF JAMIE IS RIGHT, then these statements are even more that sick and horrible.

    Now for tbj to clear his Name as the mature man of God and as he calls himself “a prophet”,

    we expect that he will obey the word of God, which says and do the following:

    23 “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift – Math 5:23-24

    IF JAMIE AND THE OTHER WOMEN ACCUSING TBJ OF SEXUAL IMMORALITY IS WRONG, IT SHOULD BE NO PROBLEM FOR TBJ TO SORT THE RELATIONSHIPs OUT BUT

    IF JAMIE AND THE OTHER WOMEN ACCUSING TBJ OF SEXUAL IMMORALITY IS RIGHT, IT IS ANOTHER STORY FOR HIM. WE BELIEVE THAT HE IS CHOOSING TO IGNORE THEM AND CALL THEM JUDAS’ ETC. BECAUSE HE IS GUILTY.

    How come that this big man of God, who is innocent of these accusation, cannot handle the situation in a mature Godly way and sort out these accusation amongst his “children”?

    Just Wonder?

    • It is not right to tell us who is guilty “Your Lordship, Your Honor, Just Wonder” For sure you will give account of your words. Beliving in accustation it is interesting kind of false faith.

  36. To George E Emmanel,
    Remember there are always real cheese in the rat trap.

    Yes, some people do get help there. They do have powers, but be careful of the poison in the “food”, be vigilant.

    Remember what our Lord Jesus Crist warned us about in Math 7: 15-23:

    True and False Prophets

    15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
    21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day,

    ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your Name and

    In your Name drive out demons and

    In your Name perform many miracles?’

    23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you.

    Away from me, you evildoers!’

    Tte false prophets of the last days, will be able to prophecy, drive out demons and do great miracles, but the Lord does not know them, because their fruit is rotten!

    Be careful, look at tbj’s fruit. Not your healing.

  37. “I have been reading the crap you lot have being writing about TB Joshua” wrote George E Emmanel. Just Wonder, do not you think that your friut which you create by you words is “crap” in the form of using fine-sounding arguments.

  38. The fact, that african pastors “have no consiousness”, to see that sleeping with women is wrong, says what is their gospel-of-Truth is all about. Its no Truth, because they did not read nor understand the Bible. They interpretate the Bible as it suits them the best. The Truth is a foundation, that needs no proove. It has been always the same for ages. The super-natural is a expression of this Truth. The supernatural needs not to be prooved by the word. As I said earlier; a man can be one day in Spirit, and the next day in another demonical source, a copy of the Spirit. The mixture of lie and truth is the deception. Tb Joshuas ministeries is full of lies, in spite of the healings.

  39. Math 7: 15-23:

    A false prophets are ones who are false teachers, who masquerade as servants of righteousness but their end will be what their actions deserve. A false prophets are false accusers. Some part of their conduct is contrary to the mind of Christ. They put themself above Christ in their judgments. The seducing teachers of accusation. They own that they belong to Christ but actions of their tonge are far from Him. Christ here shows that it will not be enough to own him as the Lord. What about character? They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing good.

    Then Jesus will profess unto them, before men and angels, at the day of judgment, Depart from me, you that work iniquity. In spite of all your admission, you had been evil and false accusers. You held the truth in unrighteousness, because you were destitute of the spirit of my Gospel, unholy in your hearts, and unrighteous in your conduct and judgments, because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!

  40. Candleholder, Paul DID practise baptism.

    I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
    Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
    And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
    1 cor 1:15-16.

    Paul is stressing the fact that it does not matter who is doing the baptising – whether its Peter, or Apollos or Jesus. It does not make one believer “superior” than another, which you touched on before. The verses preceding the one you quoted reveal that there were quarels among the Corinthian church, everyone boasting about their favourite leader – Paul or Peter, etc. Hence why Paul asked “did I die for you?!”

    But if you claim that Paul did not baptise anyone, you are plain wrong. Its mentioned in the verse before the one you quoted.

    Jesus also baptised people
    After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. (jn3.22). Needless to say, he was also baptised. Acts 2.38 says that we need to repent, believe and be baptised.

    Candleholder, you defend TB JOshua a lot, which I can understand. But in this case, you are putting your zeal to defend all things scoan ahead of what the Bible teaches about baptism.This is a classic danger of a cult.

    If I may ask, supposing TB Joshua said you dont need to be baptised, would you agree or disagree?

  41. @ Candle Holder

    Who is a Levite today by birth, is anyone a Jew ? Where are the Levites now ? Are you a Jew ? As far as I know everyone who is not a Jew is a gentile. Do Gentiles receive the tithe ?

    Every church commands the tithe, yet most are still in debt because they cannot afford to pay their bills. On top of it you hear some I say some testify how God got them miraculously out of debt. But they never tell how it happened.

    Most banks will allow you to go bankrupt and your debts will be cancelled. I know many people who pay the tithe, but are still to their eyeballs into debt. Paying tithing is upholding the law as a merit. Jesus clearly said:

    Romans 8:12-14
    Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

    If you are a son of God you live by the Spirit not by the flesh, which causes bondage. By demanding tithe you chain people of what you owe to God. Can one ever repay what belongs to God, God says all the gold and silver are Mine.

    Jesus also addressed the Pharisees But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 43 Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets. 44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.

  42. Abraham tithed only once

    The most important tithe of the whole bible was by Abraham who only ever tithed once and out of the spoils of Sodom and Gomorrah. Israel paid tithes to the Levitical priesthood however their tithes were only ever meaningful because their tithe was paid in Abraham who before they were ever born paid tithes to Melchisedec who represented Jesus. So now that Jesus our high priest has appeared should we go back to tithing to a church or priest which can never be perfected? Let it never be.

    Tithing is Abolished

    By the act of tithing you are saying there is perfection by the Levitical priesthood and the new covenant established in Christs blood is not sufficient. You can say all you like that: “10% is a good idea and principle” BUT how did you feel when you didn’t tithe that one time? You felt bad didn’t you? This is the curse of the law.

    “for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith:” Matthew 23:23

    Giving and the New Covenant
    “Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loveth a cheerful giver.” 2 Corinthians 9:7

    Isn’t it so simple to give not the 10% which is a necessity under the law but purely because of the purposes the Lord places in your heart.

    Go back to the Law Candle Holder ? NOT !

  43. According to tithe.

    There are 3 ones in the Bible. First Abraham tithe. Second tithe of Jacob, Third Moses tithe. Which one is important to us ? Only first one because it was before Moses Law. The tithe of Moses today none can fulfil, because it has many conditions. As children of Abraham, the father of faith we do tithe as it is written in Hebrew : Hebr.7.8 says: In the one case, the tenth is collected by men who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living. Who is declared to be living? Lord Jesus. He receives like Melchizedek the tithe today from happy heart without compulsion by faith, like Abraham did.

  44. Hebrews 7:8 has been taken out of context and misinterpreted. It is erroneously considered by some to be teaching that tithing is the customary way of giving in the New Covenant. This passage of scripture is part of a weighty and complex theological argument. The casual reader may not comprehend its meaning. It requires a careful study of the whole passage, verse by verse and word by word, to get a clear understanding of what is being said.

    Hebrews 7:8 in the King James Version reads:

    And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
    This verse is absolutely not saying that the practice of tithing was being followed by the New Testament church at the time the book of Hebrews was written. It is also not talking about a practice of tithing that is supposed to be in effect permanently, throughout the church age. The phrase “here men that die receive tithes” is not talking about Christian ministers in the church, now or then. It is talking about priests at the temple in Jerusalem. The “he” that is being referred to by the phrase “but there he receiveth them” is Melchizedek, 4000 years ago, not Jesus.

    This verse is incorrectly interpreted by some to say in effect:

    And here (in the New Covenant), men that die (our pastors and other ministers) receive tithes (from born-again Christians); but there (up in heaven) he (Jesus) (is the one who actually) is receiving them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
    This erroneous interpretation of the verse does not comprehend the theological argument that is being made in the passage. This misinterpretation is carelessly taken to be a scriptural proof that tithing is the will of God and the standard mode of operation in the New Covenant.

    Objectively interpreted within its context, the verse is actually saying:

    And here (in Israel at the time that Hebrews was written) men (who are priests under the Old Covenant) that (will eventually) die (and be succeeded by another mortal man after them) receive tithes (from those who are following the Law of Moses); but there (2000 years prior, during the time of Abraham in Genesis 14) he (Melchizedek) receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
    Scholars and theologians debate whether this language referring to Melchizedek’s endless life is literal or symbolic. In either case the verse is not a reference to tithing in the New Covenant. “Here men that die receive tithes” is referring to Old Covenant priests not to New Covenant ministers. “There he receiveth them” is referring to Melchizedek in Genesis 14:18–20, not to Jesus up in heaven now. Nowhere in the verse is the New Covenant being referred to. This passage is not teaching that tithing is the way of giving that God has ordained for the New Covenant.

    Consider some other translations of Hebrews 7:8:

    Furthermore, here [in the Levitical priesthood] tithes are received by men who are subject to death; while there [in the case of Melchizedek], they are received by one of whom it is testified that he lives [perpetually]. (The Amplified Bible. Copyright © Zondervan Publishing House 1965)
    And here, on the one hand, men subject to death are receiving tithes, but there he [Melchisedec] receives them, concerning whom the testimony is that he is living. (The New Testament: An Expanded Translation by Kenneth S. Wuest. Copyright © Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co. 1961)
    The “he” referred to in Hebrews 7:8 is the same “he” referred to in verse 6. That “he” is Melchizedek. That “he” is not referring to Jesus in the New Covenant. Melchizedek is the subject of verse 1 and is referred to in verses 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 10, 11, 15, 17, and 21.

    Therefore the tithe mentioned in verse 8 is not a reference to tithing in the New Covenant. It is a reference to the tithe Abraham gave to Melchizedek. Even if Melchizedek was actually a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ, he was in a different relationship to Abraham than he is to the born-again man in the New Covenant. God’s relationship with man changed drastically at the resurrection of Jesus. We don’t relate to God like Abraham did.

  45. @ Candle Holder

    With the above explanation of that scripture hebrews 7:8 I declare you a liar and a twister of Gods word. Nothing new there is it ? Candle holder.

  46. Next accustaion “Your Lordship, Your Honor Jesse.” Certainly you will give account of your words before Jesus. Do not you read that Jesus is a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek. Certenly He who is declared to be living, receives tithe. Jesse why you wear accusation as your garment; why it entered into your body like water, into your bones like oil ? I honor Jesus, and you dishonor me, by declaring me a liar. Jesus said : anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell. Choose your words carefully !!!

    • Lets keep it nice people 😉 Remember, we all have the same Lord, no matter what our differences about TB Joshua. Jesus died for Candleholder, and TB too

    • @ Candle Holder,

      I never called you “fool” or “you fool”. Another lie. I called you a liar. Nothing wrong with that, when it is so. I am also fed up about your threats.

      If you are caught into false doctrine prepare to be confronted as a liar. Then go back to Scripture ask the Holy Spirit what it really says and go from there.

      Don’t go with your own interpretations. You have been caught with that several times by many here. But with you it is so when you have to make an argument it has to be until you have to be blue in the face. What is stuck in you, you won’t see other wise. If you can’t take a sound doctrine exegesis rebuttal then you should not be here and make your erroneous statements.

      I don’t make any threats to you do I, think about it, you make love conditional like, if you don’t do what I say or convinced of then something needs to be happening to the detractors.

      Seriously, what kind of Love is that ? Is that what you learned from your Master ? And who is your Master ? Have you not learned that Love is unconditional and if you read 1 Corinthians 13 you will find out how it works. Not by the answers you have given to me. On the other website there is another one who is now calling me a Judas of my generation. How disgraceful. This shows the underlying incapability of showing love as it is given by Our Lord Jesus Christ no matter what.

      What is clear to me is that the Fire of the Holy Ghost is burning bright in the darkness that I expose in you in the deeper layers of your spirit and soul.

  47. Abraham is our father in faith therefore we relate to God like Abraham did. In the one case, the tenth is collected by men who die; but in the other case, by Him who is declared to be living forever, because He is is a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

    • @ Candle Holder,

      No you don’t relate to Abraham, you relate to Jesus Christ, Follow Him.

      Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:2

  48. We are only to present the Word of God, it judges every actions and it’s God Himself that can judge a person. Jesus said, “Love the Lord your God and love your neighbor as yourself and this is the fullfillment of the law.” This is the way of Jesus. This is the way Jesus took. “The Pharisees” used the government to kill him for that and because Jesus resisted “the Pharisees” for being “People Accusers”. The second command is like the first, to love your neighbor as yourself. What seperates True Christians from a “Today Pharisee Accuser”? Grace and mercy.

    • @ Candle Holder,

      Nobody is judging you here, you go round and round in circles. Like in so many posts. I am trying and testing your spirits who you serve and I find you wanting. You like to interpret the scripture to your advantage instead of going what it really means. That is your problem. If you have your blinkers on and you don’t want to hear anything from anyone you are in serious trouble. There is no hope for you that you will see it anyway else.

      Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

      And remember this counts for each one of you, including you Candle Holder.

      2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

      If you find you are without correction think again. You are just a mere man like everyone else is.

  49. In the African Churches there are a famine of the true Word of God:

    “The days are coming”, declares the Sovereign LORD, “when I will send a famine through the land–not a famine of food or a thirst for water, but a famine of hearing the Words of the LORD – Amos 8:11

    “Calamity upon calamity will come and rumor upon rumor. They will try to get a vision from the prophet, the teaching of the law by the priest will be lost, as will the counsel of the elders” – Ezekiel 7:26

    God help Africa!

  50. at Candleholder, on issue of baptism

    Sorry to keep going on about this, but you didnt quite answer the question. You answered by saying you were baptised. Im glad to hear it, but my question was,
    if TB Joshua said to someone they dont need to be baptised in water, would you agree or disagree?

      • do you not think its worrying that SCOAN do not at all bother with baptisms?
        I understand what you said about the dangers of people boasting that “they were baptised by TB Joshua”, which Paul also encountered. But it didnt stop Paul from doing it, nor Jesus. Like I mentioned before, any believer can baptise someone, it doesnt not have to be a “wiseman” or a “prophet”.

        Do you think that SCOAN are making a mistake by not baptising new believers?

      • Let SCOAN and TB Joshua or his representative aswer you.There is a big baptistery inside SCOAN church.

  51. Out focus must be turned away from these proud and arrogant African prophets (african messiah’s) to Jesus Christ!

    Both Water baptism after repentance and Communion points to Jesus-the Messiah- and what He did on the cross of Calvary TO SAVE AND DELIVER US, but in scoan the focus is NOT on that, but on tbj (the african messiah) and all demons.

    And tbj will make sure that your focus stays on him……

    The two things we must partake of to remember what Jesus Christ – OUR MESSIAH – did for us to save us from our own sins and the rottenness around us is:

    1. REMEMBERING THE DEATH OF JESUS CHRIST AND HOW HE DEFEATED SATAN ON THE CROSS OF CALVARY THROUGH:
    We must be baptized in water to show obedience, soon after repentance.
    “Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were BAPTIZED INTO HIS DEATH? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism (in water) into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life” – Rom. 6:3-4
    From the scriptures we learn that John the Baptist “did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins” -Mark 1:4.
    The Apostle Peter taught, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins” – Acts 2:38.
    Following Paul’s conversion, Ananias said to him, “Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins” – Acts 22:16.

    2. REMEMBERING THE DEATH OF JESUS CHRIST AND HOW HE DEFEATED SATAN ON THE CROSS OF CALVARY THROUGH:
    And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you, do this in remembrance of me” – Luke 22:19
    “Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks A PARTICIPATION IN THE BLOOD OF CHRIST?
    And is not the bread that we break A PARTICIPATION IN THE BODY OF CHRIST?” – 1 Corinthians 10:16

    But the enemy and his agents will try everything for you not to unite with Jesus in these.

  52. @ Candle Holder,

    Again about Tithe,

    It is abolished and you just want to live according to the law. Fine with me. No grace and mercy for you then. You can’t do one thing and then do eat from the other.

    Let me explain.

    Galatian 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

    The tithe is compulsary, written as a Law, How can you serve God who has made a New Covenant with us in Loving Him to receive His Grace and Mercy ? By paying compulsary tithing ?

    God stopped this right here:

    Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

    Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the COVENANT that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

    Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

    Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

    It is fine with me if you want to live under the Law Candle Holder. Go ahead. Don’t be surprised you will live under a curse.

    If you are a true son of God then you don’t pay tithe, but you do as God shows in your heart to love Him with your contribution.

    Acts 15:1-31 records a dispute over circumcision that arose in the Gentile church at Antioch. Several false brothers had attempted to require Gentile (non-Jewish) Christians to be circumcised.

    That is the same you do when you want Born again Christians to tithe. It’s a matter of the Law. Are you free or are you living in bondage Candle Holder.

    The apostles did not want to burden the Gentiles with Old Testament practices! The proof is in their letter to the Gentiles and the fact that the apostles did not impose the tithe on them.

    The apostle Peter writes in 1 Peter 2:5 and 9 that every believer is a priest. Hebrews 5-8 also teaches us that Jesus is the only priest that we need . However the institutional church has borrowed from the Old Testament model of the Levitical Priesthood, thereby establishing a new priesthood (ordained clergy) that is separate from the rest of the Body of Christ and then wants the others to tithe to them so they can run their show with compulsary money extortion.

    Though the tithe is not a requirement for the Body of Christ, we are still instructed to give. What changed from the Old Testament to the New is our motivation for giving. In the Old Testament, giving was compulsory – a tenth (tithe). In the New Testament we are to give with joy as we are led to give “2 Corinthians 9:7”, not by compulsion.

    On the topic of giving, “John 8:36” might seem like a strange scripture to cite: “So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed”. While it is true that Jesus set us free from the curse of the law in Galatians 3:10-13, sin and death “Romans 8:2”, our failure to give as Jesus taught us has kept the Church in financial bondage, and has prevented the Church from completing the work of Christ on earth.

    That is how it works, Candle Holder, but keep hold on your false doctrine if you like, but don’t be suprised that you are being opposed.

    • Jesse. What for is such a long comment? Hebr 8,7 is so simple.

      Once again. In the one case, the tenth is collected by men who die; but in the other case, by Him who is declared to be living forever, because He is is a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

      If you do not see it, something is wrong with your eyes. Abraham is our father of faith. He gave tenth to Melchizedek by faith, with joy, from free will. Jesus who is declared to be living forever collected tenth today. Tenth was before Law of Moses. So simple.

      You have no mercy for me?
      So Jesus will judge you without mercy. Because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment! James 2:13

      • Candleholder – The Melchizedek/Abraham moment is one of the worst ways of justifying a tithe today. How many times did Abraham tithe to Melchizedek? Once (not monthly/annually). What did he give a tenth of? The spoils of war (not everything he had). This is so different to the modern day tithing principle that it’s completely irrelevant.

        Jesse – appreciate your input, but can you try to keep it a bit more brief please? 😉

  53. Salut.talking about falses prophets in afrique only is deception. These false prophets exist all over the word. No wonder wy majority of europe people dont believe in the existance of our lord jesus christ. Satan is using so many distaction in europe to pull people away from our lord. He use Men and women to fulfil his missions.so how can these people be named?

  54. @Candle Light why do you confuse yourself and complicate issues concerning tithe. There is no need to go scratching what happened before Abraham etc you have a religious spirit which I don’t blame you because that is the spirit prevailing @ scoan and the spirit which I ended up receiving after my “rebellious visit there” (considering God never permitted me to go there)
    It simple and straight forward. Our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ told us “love your neighbour as you love yourself” stop this deception of tithes trying to resurrect the fullfilled Law by Christ. Go out there help your neighbour contribute to widows, childrens, those without employment etc stop trying to earn points with God. I know so many pipo who have been tithing and seriously in debts and struggling financially.
    Some of these tithe we are or have given have gone to appease evil powers who have ended up unleashing financial bondage. Read. My earlier experience and learn if u have eyes (spiritual) use them.
    I had to go through deliverance to cast our the religious spirits I got from scoan. If you don’t know about religious spirits find out more,characteristics etc.
    Pastors preaching to tithe should not mislead their sheep, if they need money for projects simply ask forth, stop misleading pipo

  55. The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind: “You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.” Psalm 110:4 High Priest, Jesus Christ who is declared to be living forever collects tithe from a joyful and free will heart. Hebr. 7,8. His preshood is forever, The Aaronic priesthood is dead. Faith and tithe was before Moses Law. it is so simple. Why are you accusing me of religious spirit ? Accusation by accusation by accusation.

  56. “By their friut you will know them” Jesus said. One of the fruit of false techers is “accusation”. Readers of this blog, read cerfuly comments and you will find manny times accusations in their teachings. By this friut you will know them.

    • @ Candle Holder,

      Sigh, will Candle Holder ever learn ? I am almost thinking you do it on purpose.

      Why are you following Abraham ? Don’t you know this ?

      Hebrews 10:1
      For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

      Hebrews 12:2
      Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

      Candle Holder keep looking to Abraham, I will look into Jesus and He will perfect my Faith. Certainly not in giving my tithes as my act of faith, but what I purpose in my heart to worship God whom I love.

      You stay in the old covenant ok and stay in bondage and I will move on to the new covenant and be free.

      • Jesse you asked me: Why are you following Abraham ? Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. (Galatians 3:7). I walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.(Romans 4:12).

      • Jesse you said to me: “you stay in the old covenant ok and stay in bondage”. I this your wish Jesse for me today? Thank you. But how can I be in old covenant when I walk in faith of Abraham, that was before old covenant? Simply impossible !!!

  57. First of all I am looking for friuts in the teaching of TB Joshua watch. And I found them. They are accusations. Jesus is saying that I can recognize false teachers and false prophets by their friuts. Accusations is one of them.

  58. I ask again: “How must we TEST THE SPIRITS to know whether someone is a true or false prophet?”

    “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but TEST THE SPIRITS to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world” – John 4:1

    Just wonder if someone can tell us?

    • I would answer you but I noticed that every time I say something here I am under attack of accusers.

  59. @ Candle Holder,

    One of the fruits of erratic theology = deception. Something that Satan is the origin of. What is worse, you being corrected ( not judged) and repent of your error or being deceived and destroy yourself and others ?

    Pick your choice ?

    Psalms 78:8 And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.

  60. One of the fruits by which we can recognize false teachers is accusation. Something that Satan who accuses day and night, is the origin of. ( Rev.12:10)

  61. @ Candle Holder,

    I will put it on queue for you so you understand. Maybe ?

    Live in the Old Covenant, Candle Holder and you will die in your ignorance a spiritual death and in bondage, live in the New Covenant and you will be set free by the Grace of God and your Faith in Him (Hebrews 12:2) because you were unable to fulfill the Old Covenant. By doing one thing of the Law (tithe) or other things you trespass the whole Law. Follow Abraham you will end up in Sodom and Gomorrah, Follow Jesus, confess Him you well end up with Him and God the Father and be saved.

    What is it gonna be Candle Holder ?

    You are saying you are also not shaving the sides of your head ? You don’t eat pork do you ? Or meat with the blood in it ? Or squeeze a pimple ? Poor undertakers, cannot never get in the church ever. Poor women who go every month not to church because of having a period. Those with leprosy can’t come either. Shame. How do you know you always precisely pay your tithe to the penny of all you have ? Where are the Levites today ? Where is the temple, was it not broken down AD 70 ? What is a true storehouse, Candle Holder ? How was it functioning ? Don’t you think it is ridiculous and impossible to do so ?

    1) The tithe must be imported from the OT law of Moses to the new covenant of grace by Christ’s blood.
    2) The tithe must be redefined from “flocks, herds, fruit and grain” to “money” and often “time”.
    3) The storehouse must be redefined from the temple in Jerusalem to the local church building.
    4) The Body of Christ must buy into the ordained clergy as the new priesthood, thereby replacing the Levite priesthood as the rightful recipient of the tithe.
    5) The Body of Christ must forfeit their own priesthood and buy into the notion that they are the “laity”.

    Since you asked for me to address 1st Corinthians 9:14 specifically, I offer these comments of the scripture IN context of the whole chapter, and common understanding of how the apostles of the day lived.

    vs. 4 the context is “food and drink”
    vs. 7 the context is food and drink
    vs. 9 the context is food
    vs. 10 the context is food (grain from the harvest)
    vs. 11 the context is food (seed and harvest)
    vs. 13 the context is the food (meat, grain/fruit and drink) offered on the altar

    Why are you all giving money to the preachers or give them a salary, instead of using the money to preach the Gospel in the dark Jungles and Dark areas of the Cities where demons rule ? Because it is so nice to be between 4 walls and having fun deceiving people. In my city we did a march through the streets and proclaimed that Jesus is Lord. Not softly but loudly.

    Old Covenant – Moses as Minister (2 Corinthians 3:13-15; John 1:17; Hebrews 3:5)
    New Covenant – Jesus’ Disciples as Ministers (2 Corinthians 3:6; John 16:12-15)

    Old Covenant – A Covenant of the Letter (2 Corinthians 3:6)
    New Covenant – A Covenant of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:6-8)

    Old Covenant – A Covenant which Kills (2 Corinthians 3:6)
    New Covenant – A Covenant which Gives Life (2 Corinthians 3:6 – literally “makes alive”)

    Old Covenant – A Ministry of Death (2 Corinthians 3:7)
    New Covenant – A Ministry of Life (2 Corinthians 3:6)

    Old Covenant – A Ministry of Condemnation (2 Corinthians 3:9)
    New Covenant – A Ministration of Righteousness (2 Corinthians 3:9)

    Old Covenant – A Covenant Written with Ink (2 Corinthians 3:3)
    New Covenant – A Covenant Written with the Spirit of the Living God (2 Corinthians 3:3)

    Old Covenant – A Covenant Written on Stone (2 Corinthians 3:3-7)
    New Covenant – A Covenant Written on the Heart of Man (2 Corinthians 3:3; Jeremiah 31:33; Ezekiel 11:19-20; 36:26)

    Old Covenant – A Covenant which came with Glory (2 Corinthians 3:7; Exodus 34:29-35)
    New Covenant – A Covenant which came with the Greatest Glory (2 Corinthians 3:8-11)

    Old Covenant – A Covenant whose Glory was Passing/Fading (2 Corinthians 3:7)
    New Covenant – A Covenant whose Glory Continues to Shine (2 Corinthians 3:18)

    Old Covenant – A Veiled or Covered Glory (2 Corinthians 3:12-16)
    New Covenant – An Unveiled, Ever-Increasing Glory (2 Corinthians 3:18)

    Old Covenant – A Covenant Destined to be Done Away (2 Corinthians 3:11; Hebrews 7:12, 8:13, 10:9)
    New Covenant – A Covenant Destined to Last Forever (2 Corinthians 3:11; Hebrews 13:20)

  62. Jesse you says to me: “Follow Abraham you will end up in Sodom and Gomorrah”

    Abraham did not end up in Sodom and Gomorah so I will not end up too. Why ? Because I have faith. So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. (Gal 3:9)
    I am living under New Covenant of faith in the Lord, Jesus Christ. Faith was before Law of Moses. So what for is such a long comment for me ? The good thing I see now, there is less accustations in your comment. By the way, my church supports many poor kids in Uganda.

  63. @Candle Holder,

    Sorry for the long replies, but I have a lot to say and it is hard to fit this in a small post. Really difficult. I really try. When I see wrong doctrines and explanations posted anywhere, it works on me like a red flag waved to a bull in the meadow. The church is already too much deceived. This simply is because Pastors are not lead by the Holy Spirit, but do their own programme instead what God wants them to do.

  64. Yes Jesse, Many times I experience this scripture: Many bulls surround me; strong bulls of Bashan encircle me. Like lions they open their jaws against me, roaring and tearing into their prey.

    Psalm 22.12-13

  65. @ Candle Holder,

    Are you Jesus Christ on the Cross crying in agony now ? Or Jerusalem that is surrounded. That’s what that verse means. It’s not applicable to you.

    Maybe this rather ? Amos 4:1 Hear this word, you cows of Bashan on Mount Samaria, you women who oppress the poor and crush the needy and say to your husbands, “Bring us some drinks!”

  66. Just Wonder if anyone can answer me?

    I ask again: “How must we TEST T.B. JOSHUA”S SPIRIT OR THE BANTU PROPHETS IN AFRICA’S SPIRITS to know whether he/they are a true or false prophets?”

    Or for that matter any other one, calling himself a Prophet?

    The Old Testament says:
    “Do not touch my anointed ones; do my prophets no harm.” – Psalm 105:15

    But in the New Testament says:
    “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but TEST THE SPIRITS to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world” – 1 John 4:1

    It is a command of God!

    “For false Christs/Anointed Ones and false Prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect–if that were possible – Mathew 24:24

    “But evil people and impostors will flourish. They will deceive others and will themselves be deceived in the last days” – 2 Timothy 3:13

    HOW MUST WE TEST THE SPIRITS?

  67. How to recognize false teachers or prophets:

    1. They do not worship Jesus Christ as the Lord and Saviour.

    If a prophet appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says “worship me” or “let us follow other gods” you must not listen to the words of that prophet.

    ( Deuteronomy 13:1-3)

    Such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.

    (Romans 16.18)

    2. They deny Jesus Christ as the Lord and God.

    They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them–bringing swift destruction on themselves.

    3. False teachers

    Bring the way of truth into disrepute

    4. Very greedy people

    Greed teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up.

    (2 Peter 2:1-3)

    5. They do not preach the cross of Jesus Christ, righteousness and holiness.

    Enemies of the cross of Christ.

    6. They love earthhly things, God is their stomach.

    Their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is on earthly things.

    (Philippians 3:18-19)

    7. They do not belive Jesus Christ came in the flesh

    Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

    (2 John 1:7)

    8. Decive by fine-sounding arguments

    Deceive you by fine-sounding arguments

    (Colossians 2:4)

    9. They have unholy character.

    By their fruit you will recognize them.

    ( Math.7:20)

  68. About the powers of TB Joshua and his 5 Wise men uncovered. This is going to be in two parts.

    There are many names for these energies and powers. Some people call it life energy, cosmic, God or universal

    energy. Perhaps Chi or Chi Gong, Prana Yama, in Christian circles they could call it Pneuma.

    If you do not meditate and are not that involved spiritually, it is likely that you are not aware of these

    energies and how it operates inside you. However when you advance spiritually you can feel these movements of

    this life giving energy, including Kryas. Kryas are unvolutary shaking of body parts.

    I am now going write what I have discerned in SCOAN as the driving forces what I have discerned in my spirit,

    soul and mental ability that this is not the Holy Spirit what they ignorantly pass off as Holy Spirit. I cannot

    blame them that they are not able to distinguish between the Holy Spirit and other powers. But here I will

    explain.

    What I see and discern is how they direct and implement those powers. This takes years of practice to get there,

    but as we know time has been at their side so this has increased gradually over time as we can see in the many

    videos in SCOAN. Now it is my time to expose this and tell the world.

    What you see in SCOAN are movements of energies in some particular areas of their bodies (read about that further

    on in the article), They have trained themselves by long meditations and in solitude on there own, with fastings,

    cleansings and exposure to others who are able to do this. This can be in a far away place in the jungle or

    inside their own homes. What they do is focussing on that area and then in their mind’s eye (this can also be the

    opening of the third eye) imagine and projecting the energies going into some other area. The energy will go

    where you direct it to go.This you can clearly see in SCOAN and is done at will. The Holy Spirit you can’t direct

    at will. The Holy Spirit is souvereign Spirit and only does the work of what the Father wants and Jesus is the

    giver of Him.

    So you should see this energy focused and directed in the areas where they sense or project it to be, and then

    see it flowing to another area. THis can be anything, from human bodies to objects, e.g. water in this case. You

    can imagine this process as though a semi-transparent white current is flowing into some area in your body, or

    you can direct this invisible energy into some part of your body without seeing any current. It does not make any

    difference how you visualise, your intention itself does the trick.

    How to use those energies To Push Objects or Human Bodies. Shakti Pat.

    You will not be able to push objects with those energies at once. You will need to learn to concentrate those

    energies and direct it into the objects which may take a long time. You can push the objects using those energies

    with your intention. There shouldn’t be any stray thoughts in your mind except that of your intention to push the

    object. You should be completely focused on the object and direct your energy to the object until it moves. When

    it starts moving, direct its movement with your mind and rising the powers from your root towards your head and

    your hands.

    How To Use those Energies To Manifest Desires

    The same energies that pushes objects can be used (and is used) to manifest your desires. However it’s much

    easier to use those energies to manifest desires than to push objects. You simply have to solely focus on your

    goal and have faith that it will manifest. You need to expect that this manifestation will materialize and be

    open to any inspiration or ideas. Once you get inspired to do something, do it at once as this may result in

    quicker manifestation of your desire.

    How To Direct Energies To Another Person

    Another person can feel your energies when it’s highly focused. To do that, you need to see the energy externally

    gathering into a energy power ball which becomes more and more intensive until it’s completely dense with white

    energy. When you achieve this effect, push this ball with your hands into another person and if the energy is

    concentrated enough, another person will feel the push. This can also be used to heal a person who is unbalanced

    and has energy blockages.

    Proof Video one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6KxA6H4aUg

    End of Part 1.

  69. Part 2

    How To Feel Your Own Energies

    Visualise white energy going from your palms into the area between them and forming the ball. Firstly hold your

    palms close to each other and see a small energy ball. The more energy comes from your palms, the bigger and the

    denser chi energy ball becomes. Soon your hands will naturally spread apart to allow the ball to grow. Now try to

    close the gap between your hands and if you’ve done this exercise properly, you will not able to do that because

    you will feel dense energy between your hands pulling them away from each other.

    How To Boost Your Energies

    You strengthen your energies by thinking positive thoughts and meditation. You boost this energy by cleansing

    your seven energy centers in our body. To cleanse your energy centers you should imagine and project energy

    visiting each one of them (from root energy center upwards) and making them glow with their colors as well as

    spinning them. You should breathe deeply when you do this exercise and make sure your energy centers spin slowly

    before finishing this task. If you leave your energy centers spinning fast, you will feel exhausted because you

    will distribute your energies everywhere you go.

    How To Make A Protective Shield Against Negative Energies

    Visualise that you are in a ball of white energy which protects you from the negative influences. Visualise that

    this shield only allows the thoughts and energy of love, peace and other positivity to enter it. Then make this

    ball as large as you feel comfortable.

    If you want your own protection, a small energy ball will do the work, however if you want your home to be

    protected, you should make this ball of energy bigger than your home. This protective shield is usually used by

    psychics to discourage negative entities or by people who astral project, so that their bodies would be safe

    while they are away. You can also protect yourself this way if you are surrounded by negative people or you think

    that someone uses your energy (this is usually the case when you feel drained after talking to someone).

    How To Heal With those Energies

    Your energies can be used to heal not only yourself, but others too. Simply visualise a white light coming from

    your hands into the area that needs to be healed. Feel this energy healing the area and see the area as healed.

    The other person or you should feel intensive warmth in that area.

    This is what you actually see happening in SCOAN which is not the Holy Spirit but tapping in a sort of Universal

    power and channeling this to others. This causes Kryas in others and then they fall down. This can heal people

    but sometimes not. This is not the Holy Spirit but powers that are in the spiritual realm where they tap into.

    These powers also make them highly psychic and they are able to interact with spiritual forces and familiar

    spirits. Which in turn can read peoples past history and sometimes the future.

    Strong jolts of these energies is also used to astral project. When those energies are very strong and you feel

    the ripples in your body, you can direct this energy into one part of your body (head or hands) and take it out

    of your body. This way you can have an OBE (Out of Body Experience) or Astral Project and can interact with the

    spiritual realm in the 4th dimension.

    Proof Video two: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt7MGgxbhho

    Unfortunately it is not done because of the will of God, but by their own will and expressions. Add to that a

    religious theme and end it with “in the Mighty Name of Jesus Christ” it will look like as if it is God Who is

    doing this. Pity enough it is not. I hope this helps for you all to understand this. I really have to press to

    everyone of you that this is the case regarding what you see.

    If you will ask them, they will not tell you this or go in denial about it and pass it off as demonic, but that

    is just what is happening there unfortunately.

    I would recommend to press these questions and uncover what really is going on there. God bless you,

    Jesse. (C) Copyright 2012

  70. Pharisees said, “It is by the prince of demons that he drives out demons.” ( Matthew 9:34)

    This time “Your Honor Jesse” once again, you accused TB Joshua and Wise Men of delivering people by “Chi power” ?

    Your two very long comments with your Copyright at the end (which is really funny) is nothing else but pure accusation. You tried to prove here something not by the Words of God, but by the teaching us how to move in “Chi power”.

    Is it Christian way of discernment? Of course not !!! Because we Christians are testing everything in the light of God’s Words, not by “New Age Teaching” ?

    You will give account of careless, unnecessary “New Age Teaching Acusation” before The Lord Jesus on the Day of Judgment !!!

    Jesus said that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. (Math. 12:36)

  71. @ Candle Holder,

    Who are you ? Did Jesus tell you personally that He is going to do that ? Only Jesus will judge me.

    You don’t seem to understand that I wrote this to uncover TB Joshua’s ministers how they minister and that is what they have been doing the last few years.

    Now you are accusing me of speaking of careless words. I never spoke this careless, I wrote this to expose what really is going on. Now it is up to others to investigate this for themselves and find out personally.

    As I said most people do not know this, Hence God say MY PEOPLE PERISH BECAUSE OF LACK OF KNOWLEDGE. In this case lack of knowledge what is going on in the church about the works of Satan. Now you are exposed ! Repent and turn back to the true Jesus an God the Father and not to the father of lies and deception.

  72. Thank you for all the effort you have put in to answer me!

    I appreciate that….

    … so we can come to the conclusion that we can and must –

    TEST THE SPIRITS WORKING IN TB JOSHUA AND THE FIVE WISE MEN USING THE WORD OF GOD?

    Right?

    Because the Word says:

    “There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my Words;
    THAT VERY WORD I, JESUS, SPOKE WILL CONDEMN HIM at the last day” – John 12:48

    ”For THE WORD OF GOD is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it JUDGES THE THOUGHTS AND ATTITUDES OF THE HEART OR MIND” – Hebrews 4:12

    Right?

  73. “For the appeal we make does not spring from error or impure motives, nor are we trying to trick you” – 1 Thessalonians 2:3

    The salvation of our very souls depends on the TRUTH, because the Bible says that:
    “The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of deceitful displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing.

    THEY PERISH BECAUSE THEY REFUSE TO LOVE THE TRUTH AND SO BE SAVED.

    For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lies and deceptions and so that all will be condemned/judged who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness” – 2 Thess 2:9-12.

    We should be like David who said:
    “I do not sit with deceitful men, nor do I consort with hypocrites” – Psalm 26:4.

    Right?

  74. How in the world are we going to TEST these CLEVER DECEITFUL TRICKS of the Bantu prophets of Africa?

  75. Jesse, Jesus said that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. (Math. 12:36)

    I only point a place to you where in the Bible, the Word of God is judging your two long careless New Age teaching comments.

    My question was:

    Jesse, why are you accusing TB Joshua by using careless two long “Ki Power New Age Teaching”, if you are calling yourself a Christian? Is it a kind of your “New Age Expose” ?

  76. @ Candle Holder,

    I think you could care less about the truth and facts that I have been using this to uncover the practices at SCOAN.

    I believe that is what Jesus expects me to do, to use this to let people know that it is not the Holy Spirit but just Kundalini practices.

    You are now invited to prove to me that it is not true. Whatever means you want to use. Explain to me what and Who the Holy Spirit is and how He operates.

    In the way it is most of the time operating in the church is a glorified Kundalini practice. That’s what it exactly is. What is made believe in the church that this is HOW the Holy Spirit works. Again, you cannot dispense the Holy Spirit at will or whenever you want.

    That on it selves in an indication that it is not the Holy Spirit.

  77. @ Candle Holder,

    FYI I am not careless, I contemplate and pray over very carefully what I write. All you are trying to do is go cover up what I am describing here as highly possible what is happening there to intimidate me with scripture to scare me off. On the contrary, Candle Holder, I will continue to uncover these kind of practices what are not genuine Holy Spirit moves.

    Usually proponents of impartation and spiritual manifestations like you and others, found across the Pentecostal and Charismatic worlds from one end of the earth to another, who justify the surreal and often completely carnal nature of these supposedly inspired “manifestations.”

    These “manifestations” are meant to be behind virtually every physically displayed action observed in these “Holy Spirit” meetings. They include, but are not limited to, shaking, weeping, speaking in tongues, being “slain by the Spirit” as well as barking like dogs, roaring like wild beasts and women giving “birth to the Spirit” through “labor pains” in which they endure contractions, screams of agony and even the soiling of their clothing. Such “offense” is said to be a divine manifestation of God’s Spirit He uses to “expose” some hidden spiritual deficit or demonic force among those not manifesting the same way.

    These are all manifestations that you can find back and trace back in the application of Kundalini or strong directed Chi. Therefore most christians are being cheated by forces that are not from God but instead of other sources and likely also demonic of background.

    It is well known that Kundalini heals, cleanses, but Kundalini on itselves is a very egoistic power and has a lot of side effects. It does not glorify Jesus and is triggered at will and projected on other people inside the church who buys wholesale that this is the work of Christ.

    According to popular belief among Pentecostals and Charismatics, is an irrefutably clear reference to the special spiritual giftings mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12 which involve gifts of tongues, interpretation, miracles and prophecy, deliverance, healing among others. This, for many, is a “Holy Ghost blank check” meant to be gateway to the “deep things of God” all are to receive from the hosts and ministers of so the called “five fold ministry” all around today and in SCOAN.

    Several serious questions arise about this from Scripture itself. What about what Paul wrote in Romans 1:11: “I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to make you strong” According to the great Christian exegete W.E. Vine, the Greek word translated “impart” is metadidomi (meaning “to give a share”), a compound word (meta, “with”; give, didomai) that is DISTINCT from “giving”:

    The apostle Paul speaks of “sharing” some spiritual gift with Christians at Rome, (Romans 1:11), “that I may impart,” and exhorts those who minister in things temporal, to do so as “sharing,” and that generously (12:8). In 1 Thessalonians 2:8 he speaks of himself and his fellow missionaries as having been well pleased to impart to the converts both God’s gospel and their own souls (i. e., so “sharing” those with them as to spend themselves and spend out their lives for them).

    And example is, So you see the 5 Wisemen without any gifts operating from one day to another and all of sudden they are capable of operating in all of them what is said to be the Holy Spirit. Will that tell us that specifically those 5 men were all of sudden chosen or were they initated in the same things that I have been discussing here. I believe it is the latter.

  78. @ Just Wonder,

    You will be able to do so when you keep asking questions and observe and pray and ask God to show you what is happening.

    He will show it to you. You will just know. Also you need to find out what fruit it produces in the long term.

    God will also show this in your dreams, visions, check in your spirit, and guide you to sources to expose them.

    I still have to correct Candle Holder,

    Read again, I am NOT for New Age, nor do I an “Expose” as you say, but I am using this information to inform people to understand what actually is taking place. I have to write words for that Candle Holder and I am not careless about this, I am caring about people to get out and get wiser,”it are not those things that you think it is, but each one has to make up his or her mind about it”.

    Most People do not know what the Holy Spirit is. That is why they go with any “manifestation or impartation” that looks positive in the experience but is a copy of the real Holy Spirit.

    Only God can teach you this how to understand it. I can’t, I can only give you titbits in how you question things whether they are out of God. When the manifestations are just like Kundalini manifestations, it is better to run than to stay because when it “infects and get a hold on” you, in the long run you might lose your soul, is that what you want ?

    Therefore most people don’t study the Word of God, they go from manifestation to manifestation and keep thinking this is God doing a move. Think again. Test again. Try it against the Word of God, Pray over it, Study it, Watch it, Talk with others about it, Make sure you are grounded in what you believe in. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise or try to deceive you.

    The only reason I am telling this Candle Holder, I have a long, long experience of these manifestations, impartations and its circus and I have seen little benefit for those who were participating in it, including myself. We are not to go by manifestations or power but by our Relationship with Jesus Christ. 1 Timothy 5:12

  79. @ All,

    There are many examples today that demonstrate how much imbalanced and unbiblical teaching exists that confuse and even blind Christians to Scriptural truth on the anointing of the Holy Spirit in the lives of believers. Such confusion only contributes to the ignorance of Pentecostal and Charismatic believers, when laboring under the excitement of revivalism, are led into false teaching out of good intentions.

    One glaring instance is found in the book entitled “The Anointing” written by Benny Hinn. He states that the believer lives at three different levels of “the anointing”. We are first saved (in a visitation of the Spirit called the “leper’s anointing), then we are baptized in the Spirit (through an enduement of spiritual power called the “priestly anointing”). He goes on to state that these two levels of “anointing” are necessary to seek and possibly receive a special third level called the “kingly anointing, the most powerful of them all” which “lifts a person to a place of high authority with God .. the most difficult to receive.” On a TBN broadcast, Hinn speaks of visiting the grave sites of Kathryn Kuhlman and Aimee Semple McPherson, where he has felt “a terrific anointing” lingering over their remains, an “anointing” that even healed the sick brought to the graveside.

    He then defends these eerie practices by using the account of Elisha’s bones raising the dead. But the plain understanding of the Elisha account shows this was simply the manner that authenticated the fulfillment of God’s promise for him to have received the “double portion.” That in and of itself was unique, not normative for every christian. Nowhere else in Scripture do you read of anyone else receiving a “double portion.” Neither Christ or the apostles taught much less advocated seeking “levels” of spiritual anointing, so Hinn’s teaching is clearly not Biblical. That doesn’t keep so many others from replicating unscriptural claims about alleged planes, realms of spiritual power to climb ladder like in spiritual progression.

    Also a matter they do in SCOAN, everyone is in a different level or operating in a different realm than this earthly one. A level of what ?

  80. Strange Fire:

    T.B Joshua Exposed “Dead man raised from the dead by T.B. Joshua”

    ….video is a fake!
    .

    I, per chance, met this old man on the airport after this. At that stage I thought it a blessing from God to meet a man raised from the dead and asked him: “Did you see Jesus and heaven”? He said to me: “No”? I thought it strange and asked him another question, “Were you healed in scoan of your illnesses. He also said; “No?” I thought it very strange?

    He has passed away?

    How to TEST this?

  81. Another African Bantu Prophet movement:
    The Zionist Christian Church.
    ZCC compared to the witchdoctor groups.

    It is dawn – two groups of people are approaching the river.
    1. First group is heathen with their leader the witchdoctor/diviner/sangoma/abunge.
    2. Second group is Christian with their leader the prophet/bishop/apostle.
    The witchdoctor’s group arrives at the stream first. All the members of the group have brought their calabashes and when they have been filled with water, medicine is added and the concoction is stirred until froth is formed. The witchdoctor gives each to drink from the frothy water and they begin to vomit.
    To conclude this ceremony the witchdoctor finds some white clay, which he smears upon himself and his followers and then they start a spiritual songs.
    The whole group leaves the stream, returning to the witchdoctor’s kraal. The leader dances round his group in joy, beating them with twigs as they run homewards.
    The three legs that their heathenism stands on are;
    First the witchdoctor/diviner/sangoma/abunges who are the diviners find the problem,
    Secondly she/he will then send the patient to the herbalist for the medicine remedy.
    Thirdly you get the weather man, controlling the weather.

    Second comes the Christian group. They do not want to enter the water because the heathens have defiled it. The leader replies that they should not worry as it is living or running water and it will soon be healed.
    Then follows blessings of the water while they sing hymns. The leader stirs the water with his finger and while looking up to heaven says a short prayer to the Lord of the Living waters, that the stream may be cleansed of vile things. One in the group is brought to the leader by a prayer woman. With both hands he scoops water into the mouth of the patient, at the same time shouting; “In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, Drink! This blessed water will take away sickness from you”
    The leader then takes the patient with him in the middle of the stream and makes the woman stoop down until the water goes over her head. He places his hands upon her head and in the same moment he becomes filled with the Holy Spirit. His whole body shakes and he speaks in his tongue. :”Di-di-di-di-di-didi, do-do-do-do-do, de-de-de-de-de, hlo-hlo-hlo-hlo-hlo, Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.” The patient drinks from the water, praying at intervals; “Descend, Spirit, descend like a dove. Soon she also gets the Spirit, begins to shake and to speak in tongues:”Di-di-di-di-di-didi.” While this is happening the faithful on the bank sing hymns. Their hymns have been taken largely over from the white mission churches. Then the sick woman comes up from the stream and begins to vomit on the rocks. After the ‘water and vomiting’ ceremony, he takes white ashes and mixes them with water and smears the patient’s face and shoulders with this mixture.
    Then to complete the cure a specific color sash is given her and is tied around her shoulders.
    The whole group leaves the stream, returning to the leader’s kraal. The leader then again gets possessed by the Spirit, he then circles round his group in joy, singing and dancing, followed by his group.
    Watching this encounter at dawn, between the two groups, one from the heathen and one from the Christians:
    I observed that the distance in their religions from each other was not great!
    The Christian leader was not in a position to understand Christianity in any other way.
    He had to interpret it in the only terms he knew:
    The pattern of the heathen religion, the pattern of the witchdoctor system!

  82. Jesse, would you be so kind to write not loo long comments. It would be easy to answer for your questions.

    If you want to examine TB Joshua and 5 Wise men deeds, do it in the light of God.s word. We Christian examine the Scriptures to see if what TB Joshua does is true. Read (Acts. 17:11)

    Prince of Darkness, the Devil means “False Accuser”. He accuses outside of the light of the God,s Word.

    Your comments outside the light of God’s Word are dark, carelles and idle.

    I wonder who is in charge here to moderate your comments ?. One of the rules says; Please keep the comments relevant, civil and not too long!

  83. T.B. Joshua is a brilliantly clever deceitful trickster:

    As I see it; “We as Christians have a challenge between these two verses to TEST and expose false spirits:

    “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but TEST THE SPIRITS to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world” – John 4:1

    and

    “But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.” – Mark 3:29

    I tend to agree with Jessie. I have a question mark about what spirit works in scoan. After observing tbj and seeing that – after he went down in reputation, he quickly raised up five wise men, filled with the same spirit he has, to do his job further. Nowhere in the Bible do I see this. Disciples being raised up like sausages out of a sausage machine and then they all look alike and act alike and all are small tbj’s, to further his own ministry and kingdom. What spirit is this? And now they are strictly monitored, controlled and manipulated by tbj and live virtually in solitary confinement?

    There are just too many things wrong and unbiblical n that ministry to be trust worthy any more.

    I do not know how many more discrepancies and unbiblical errors must be revealed before his followers will wake up!

    1. Just on this web-site alone.
    • Recent Posts
    o Repost: The State of African Christianity
    o TB Joshua and deliverance. Is it biblical?
    o TB Joshua’s US Election dilemma
    o TB Joshua’s stolen ‘quotable quotes’
    o TB Joshua, the messiah? Is it SCOAN behind these claims?
    o TB Joshua, the messiah
    o The self serving motive behind TB Joshua’s “prophecies”

    2. What about ‘The Deception of the age”?
    Parts 1-8?

    3. What about all the Bible verses proving that he is falling of the bus?

    It is just our Lord Jesus Christ and His mercy that will wake those sleepers up and get them out through the TRUTH.

    I do not want to be in tbj’s shoes at the judgment seat of God.

  84. To TB Joshua,
    Do not think that you are going to pull the same old tricks on the girls and parents of those girls in your hell hole that you have sexually violated!

    After using and abusing them, to marry them off to another man, to get rid of them.

    It will not work this time around as we have seen it come and opened a court case in the “HEAVENLY COURT ROOM WITH JESUS CHRIST OUR LAWYER”.

    We pray that your clever tricks will be exposed again this time as well.

    Jesus will vindicate your female disciples for the sake of His son Jesus Christ!

  85. “Your Honor, Your Lordship, Just Wonder”,

    You tried to show some TB Joshua deeds which I understand, but your “terrific” judgments are not enough yet.

    Listen Just Wonder, you do not understand the difference between judging deeds of neighbor and condemnig neighbor, as a person yet !!!.

    Here I quote your words: “T.B. Joshua is a brilliantly clever deceitful trickster”. it is clear condemnation a person. This sentence you wrote, started working against you.
    :
    “Your Honor Just Wonder”, You condemn TB Joshua as a person. Why are you playing God? Why you put yourself above The Lord Jesus Christ, The one Lawgiver and Judge to condemn a person ?

    There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you, who are you to condemn your neighbor? (James 4,12)

    “Your Honor, Just Wonder”, because you are not ashamed to put above Jesus to condemn a person, Jesus will not to be ashamed to put you under his condemnation, for by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.” (Matthew 12:37)

    • candle holder. We are examening the spirits that are used In Scoan. Why? Because of a lot of harm is done by them. Jezus Himself warnes for the false Christs and profhets. Are ytou afraid for the Truth? To discover that TB Joshua is indeed a fake? When you go to a doktor, you want to be sure that he is graduated by his experitise, and not a charlathan. The same for our Holy healers. The bible talks only about choosen Apostles, by God. And today it is still the same. There is passage in the Skriptures that talks about impartated anoitings. Both Elishia and Eliah were called by God. Eliah did not imparted Elisiah without Gods permission and demand. TB Joshua imparts who-ever is willing, and thats realy playing for God. Facts are no judgings. Aslong as you dont have the Spirit and the Truth, you will be stucked in endless interpretations of The Word. The Truth will reveal exactly what is going on, and Truth can rebuke very firm, just as Jezus did with Satan.

      • candle holder; the fascination facts of the aposteles in the bible is, that Jezus choose them, and that they all were very specific in their callings, they did not became copies of Jezus, they expereinced Jezus in them-selves. And did Mozes or Abraham created 5 mozesses and abrahams, just as themselves? I guess TB Joshua is trying to multipy himself, he is very found of himself. He literarly calles his wise-men; tb Joshuas. A good Master will bring his students to independanty, . Tb Joshua claims lives as if he is the owner of it. He says; How great it is that the wise-men want to be used as a vessel for God. The real surrender to Gods calling is never a using, its a privilage and ment to be. A called person will never have the feeling being used by God. The problem with tb Joshua is, he is proud of his gifts and has there ever been a proud profhet in the bible? From whom did tb Joshua receives his calling and gifts?

  86. No “Candle holder” – I am not your lordship, neither your honor, just a solicitor in God’s court. God our Father is the Judge of Judges and Jesus, His Son, is our Lawyer. Satan is the world accuser and we are in His court. Solicitors provide expert legal support and advice to clients on the truth and take the true facts to the Lawyer.
    That is my job.
    That’s all.

  87. Help discern Candle holder – because of space – what about false prophets and teachers that will be judged by the 9 points you stipulated. If you put tbj to the TEST, what would be his score?

  88. Jesse,

    Judge TB Joshua deeds in the light of the God’s Word.
    You have to do it, so you may not to be decived. I am not against it. Bring some more ones..

    However this time I put this way:

    Do not behave like a foolish people. that are condeming people, a person, because it is putting on him unforgiveness, It is living in unforgiveness. Unforgiveness is a spiritual poison.

    If you live in unforgiveness your sins can not be forgiven. Do not count that you will go to Heaven.

  89. Your Honor Just Wonder and Jesse,

    Do not behave like foolish people. Just Wonder you wrote in the terrific way this:

    I quote “It will not work this time around as we have seen it come and opened a court case in the “HEAVENLY COURT ROOM WITH JESUS CHRIST OUR LAWYER”.

    Learn not to condemn people from Angels of God. As it is written in the Bible: Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing condemnation against them before the Lord. ( 2 Peter 2:11)

      • I did not condemn TB Joshua for anything, I did not spit on him. I love TB Joshua even that he is my enemy. You must forgive me and show me God’s Love, You must forgive me for that I don’t accept TB Joshua and certain preachers. God did not condemn me for anything in spite of that I am a sinner. God did not condemn anyone including False Teachers and dangerous Cult Leaders.

    • Just Wonder.Your comments outside the light of God’s Word are dark, carelles and idle. Jesus .said that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. (Math. 12:36)

      Just Wonder why are you accusing TB Joshua by using careless ebook “”, if you are calling yourself a Christian? Is it a kind of your “Black Magic Expose” ?

  90. “Authors of TB Joshua Watch” You should publicly ask for forgiveness for condemnig people on TB Joshua Watch blog. There are public proves of it.

  91. Condemning people it is a life in unforgiveness, because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment! (James 2:13) Be careful with your “I wll go to Heaven” Authors of this blog !!! Your internet, public condemning people needs public asking for forgiveness.

  92. Happy New Year to everyone who reads and contribute and runs TB Joshua Watch.
    My prayer for 2013 is that the name of Jesus is Glorified and that the love demonstrated by the death of Jesus, and the power demonstrated by his resurrection are seen in abundance.

  93. I have right to judge deeds of my neighbour in the light of God’s Word. But I can not play God,s role and condemn a person. He only knows hearts. Only The Lord can condemn or save. Judging is connected only with deeds. Condemnig is connected with a person. If you condemn someone, you have no mercy for him, You are making him as “hell sacrifice” but If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. (Math 12:7)

  94. @ All,

    When are you all going to repent from your sins according to Jeremiah’s warning scripture that says you should not make any gods.

    O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is NO profit. Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they are no gods? (Jeremiah 16:19-20)

    You all have made T.B. Joshua and the Wise-men to gods that you worship and kneel down for. Go and hear from God Himself, He speaks to everyone who asks of Him. Obey the Scripture and repent, not what man says.

  95. I have been writing extensively on the other blog of Watch T. B. Joshua and all the comments that I made there, they have put now in the archives very quickly. I had very strong points and statements there and it shows that I was right all along of what I wrote there concerning matters or their errors, claims and beliefs.

    They got so scared that they had to put my comments on the bottom of the pile. Is that not interesting ? I challenged them to get them to use Anointed Water on these two guys video.

    Please watch this carefully. In where I set the challenge, if T. B. Joshua’s anointing water does all what they claim, I said, let them get those two guys over for a demonstration of the claimed deliverance and healing powers that are only “flowing” in Lagos, Nigeria.

    People love to run after people they worship and that make them feel good, but don’t listen to people that warn them from those matters that it never will work with real stuff with people like Jason and Ami. I hope you all are with me about that.

    I hope also you all will challenge them same way as I did and see them shrivel away from their answers of being so sure of what they have seen or claim down there.

    God bless,

  96. I’ve seen dat d pipo of dis world wants to limit d extend of which Gods power can move but thank God He cant be limited. Y wuld humans jst wake up on a gudmornin and decide 2 go against a genuine man of God(TB JOSHUA)? Anyway, if Jesus d Christ faced such who are we his followers not to face even greater condemnation. Lord hav mercy!

    • @ light Hux,

      I have absolutely NO problems about God healing anything, what I have problems with is the claim that the so called “Anointed Water” can heal and deliver such people. So to prove that it does, invite these two guys to SCOAN, put a camera on it (what they like so much there) and show it to the entire world. But I know I will not have hold my breath about that one.

    • @ Light Hux,

      If, what you are claiming is true and distance is not a barrier. Why did Michael Jackson die, after been warned through his brothers by TB Joshua ? Why did the distant barrier not work ? Why was his death not spared after been known, by several prophets ? Why disappoint so many fans all over the world ?

      Please stop having the drivel about Oh, it was Gods will, while scripture says:

      “Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his way and live? For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore, turn yourselves, and live ye.”–Ezek. 18:23, 32.

      “Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways, for why will ye die, O house of Israel?”–Ezek. 33:11.

      So the distance is not a barrier did not work clearly. The same counts for many others who were “prophesied”

      Period !

  97. Lets come together and reason like Christians even for ones.let me not make it too blblical by quoting Scriptures.some claimed that prophet TB Joshua is a fake because of some reasons.It is because of jealousy and hatred we have for someone which makes us condemn in a systematic way.we see humility at its peak and we call it pride,we see generosity beyond measures and we blindfold our hearts,we see real and practical Christianity that most of us can not even for one day practice and we stil condemn.may God have mercy on our souls.Even when our lord Jesus came, some never believed him.we should try to use our head to think and pray to God because he is the one to open our eyes and our hearts to what we ask of instead of putting ourselfs in a position whereby we can incur Gods judgment on us by condemning his own.Remember God said,tough not my anointed.God bless u all

    • @ pastor Wealth,

      What are you insinuating ? I am in no way jealous or hatred. I am here to prove claims to be false in the light of their confessions as well in the light of the word of God.

      That is no jealousy or hatred, that’s what every Christian or better follower of Jesus Christ must do.

      Pity that such words fall on the road all the time, since that whenever the demi-god opens his mouth every one goes gaga about a word that has been said 21 years ago by Jacques Ellul and was recorded on videotape.

      Everyone knows that investing in the right matters, there will be a return. It’s the law of sowing and reaping. Ever read that in the bible somewhere ? No not the Africans, they go by another persons words, without reading it. Aka the shortcut of being lazy to find this out by themselves.

  98. I want proof or the following claimed prophecies.

    1. Five killed in Alps, Plane Crash.
    2. Australia Wildfires
    3. Oil rig runs aground in Gulf of Alaska.
    4. The time and date when Hugo Chavez dies or will be healed.
    5. Six killed in snowmobile crash.

    And how they were said in church, with video, with the dates, with the time scale it would happen. How they were going to be averted with distance in not a barrier slogan that did not work there.

    P.S. I am not a demon. Nor are demons in me or around me. I am a hardcore evidence seeker of the absolute truth in God and I will not rest until I see the evidence that you all stop lying about those “prophecies” and “claims”.

    Job_34:4 Let us choose to us judgment: let us know among ourselves what is good.

    Ecc_8:6 Because to every purpose there is time and judgment, therefore the misery of man is great upon him.

    Isa_16:3 Take counsel, execute judgment; make thy shadow as the night in the midst of the noonday; hide the outcasts; bewray not him that wandereth.

    Isa_56:1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

    Jer_5:1 Run ye to and fro through the streets of Jerusalem, and see now, and know, and seek in the broad places thereof, if ye can find a man, if there be any that executeth judgment, that seeketh the truth; and I will pardon it.

    Deu_25:1 If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.

    1Pe_4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

    Jud_1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

    1Co_6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

    1Co_14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

    1Co_6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

    1Co_5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

    Zec_3:7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.

  99. Jesse If you want to make judgements about some TB Joshua prophecies, Show them out, so we may see it.

  100. If TB Joshua is false why his congregation is growing and growing day by day, week by week. Now at Scoan Sunday services are more than 60 000 people. So what is wrong with Nigerian people living in Lagos ? Are they so easy and impressionable? Why the congregation of those who accuse TB Joshua is so weak and small ? Is it the state of Christianity in Africa ?

    • @ Candle Holder,

      Numbers says nothing, remember Eve, billions of people are now deceived. There are a billion and over Hindus, a billion and a half Muslims, millions of Buddhists, millions of atheists and more and more going through those paths. What is a hundred thousand Scoanites ? There are many gurus and people always have followed frenzies and stampede. They even followed Hitler as well Stalin or Mao Tze Tung. People are ignorant sheep. Sheep led to slaughter.

      There is only One that I follow and that is Jesus Christ and Him alone. Everyone and everything else fails.

      Candle Holder stop going round in circles, I have given you evidence. Sea sickness is NOT a natural disaster. Secondly read and find out about Jacques Ellul and his writings as well videos about him and you will see that that long time has been said, nothing new. More than 21 years ago, why ask again and again ?

      Remember this, when TB Joshua says that he had to fight against the hand of the Devil, think again, Jesus had already done this, why do it again ! Evidence ? The mount of Calvary. It are your sins that drag the hand of the Devil over you. All that a Christian and everyone have to do is Submit yourselves unto God and resist the Devil and he shall flee from you. Your armour is not for fighting, but to stand, stand your ground and resist look it up. I am not going to say anymore.

      • Jesse, who is Jacques Ellul ? Are you his follower ? Your evidence ? I do not hink you gave enough to belive what you are saying.

  101. @ Candle Holder,

    Listen dude, I refuse to do your home work, go and google yourself these matters and become sophisticated in your efforts to do some investigatory studies yourself instead of blindfolded following somebody to the end of the cliff.

    Don’t show that you are too lazy to find out matters for yourself.

    And no, I don’t follow Jacques Ellul, but I know what Jacques said 21 years ago and can compare the so called “new prophecies” of god through TB Joshua for 2013, that there was nothing new under the sun. It’s part of a broad knowledge that I have of those things that are necessary to unmask cheaters and deceivers as yourself and others.

    I know very well you don’t like all that and that you love to wriggle yourself out of your own efforts to get enlighted.

    • You do not know me at all. Your judgements Jesse without the light of God”s Word are accusations so your judgements are similiar do devils works.

  102. @Jesse

    U said u’re lukin for the truth? Well, I guess u’re actually looking for faults in men of God. God save your soul. It’s very easy, pray and fast to God that he reveals whatever truth u’re looking for, for Him alone can grant u that. A little souvenir for your journey “When u run out of rope its time to hold onto faith”

  103. Pingback: Touch not the Lord’s annointed « TB Joshua Watch

  104. I think that if people have proof that he is a rapist and a killer then they should arrest him what are they waiting for? If girls are being impregnated by him then we need to see proof of DNA to confirm the allegations. I think where there is no anointing people will do nothing. The devil only works hard on people he has not yet brought down that is why people are so keen in bringing that man down because his anointing his just too much! Catch the fire! I have already done so and my life is better. God only works through people he will not came from Heaven to do his work.

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