TB Joshua’s 2011 Boko Haram prophecy revisited

This week, Boko Haram burned alive 80 men, women and children. Does anyone remember what TB Joshua had to say about the crisis back in the 2011 Candlelit service? Watch the video below to find out.

This is one prophecy that we wish TB Joshua had got right. But unfortunately he couldn’t have been more mistaken. Since then, Boko Haram have only escalated their campaign of terror, and the death toll has been devastating. The horrific events of this week is just the latest example.

When TB Joshua’s prophecies coincide with reality, his followers claim that this is proof of his divine gift. SCOAN release cleverly edited videos bragging about their accuracy. However, they keep very quiet when his prophecies turn out to be completely wrong.

86 thoughts on “TB Joshua’s 2011 Boko Haram prophecy revisited

  1. Not sure what is more appalling; TB Joshua’s exploitation of human suffering and tragedy to market his own brand or SCOANITES’ selective amnesia over the same.

    Only a psycopath can without hesitation revel in tragedies.

  2. Where are the Scoanites? Come defend your leader…he is being persecuted and you cannot keep quiet!

  3. When one switches on a light in a room that has been kept dark for a long time, it is mainly those that have been locked up in the dark room that will want to kill the one who switched on the light…
    The lights are already on for all to see, the choice is for the horse itself to drink after being taken to the river. Drink or … the choice is for scoanites!

  4. @tbjoshuawatch
    Your video is sad, but very powerful. It drives the point home! It is short, but very informative. It just left me somewhat shocked. I knew this [Boko Haram] was still a problem even after TBJ’s prophecy, but I actually didn’t realise the extent to which it had worsened. It almost looks like TBJ made it worse.

    • @General
      You bring up an interesting point. Yes, the Boko Haram situation got exponentially worse after TB Joshua said it was over, but that’s not all. The Ebola situation in Sierra Leone got exponentially worse after TB Joshua claimed it was “over” and donated his anointed water. Almost 2 years after MH370 disappeared and TB Joshua claimed it would be over by the end of the week, the mystery still hasn’t been solved. I can’t think of any other prophecies he’s given related to an ongoing situation (most are to do with one off events). I’m not generally very superstitious but it’s almost as if his prophecies become a curse on the situations.

      • @tbjoshuawatch,
        It’s not that the prophecies turn to curses, it’s just YHWH making diviners mad;

        Isaiah 44:25 (KJV)
        That frustrateth the tokens of the liars,
        and maketh diviners mad;
        that turneth wise men backward,
        and maketh their knowledge foolish;

      • The instances mentioned here are tbj’s grand clever guesses gone flat wrong.
        Tbj is a sly deceptive ‘propheta’ like his ilk. His ‘prophesies’ in reality are calculated probabilities.

        How it works is, make as many guesses or ‘prophesies’ as possible. Some will be right by simple probability. Like when you hit on many girls.

        Ensure you capitalise maximum on those guesses which turn out ‘right’ or ‘prophetic’ and exploit your most gullible believers. Those are the ones who believe you no matter how wrong you are. So when you are right they are ready to elevate you towards deity status.

        Mostly target high octane events or emotional situations like tragedies and people’s fears on why things go wrong or cannot be explained at least not without a supernatural explanation.

        Even go a step further to adjust prophesies for purposes of this deception and TbjW has excellent documentation of this manipulation of wrong guesses or prophesies edited to fit event (culprit – emmanuel tv editorial team).

        If tbj specifically invites curses by his pronouncements I will agree.. But tbjs venture is fraudulent in its entirety. He has made big bucks and I say invited curses bigger than his simply plain wrong prophecy claims

  5. Scriptural Advisory: United we stand, divided we fall!

    I perceive in my spirit that the antichrist spirit’s has adopted the old stratagem of divide and rule against this site. The things of God is not about logic and rationale otherwise angels and demons do not exist, neither is it about science and philosophy else heaven and hell is fickle and fictional.

    Yes as believers we do err sometimes in scriptural understanding and interpretation that is why we must keep studying the Holy Bible (KJV) to know more. Even the angels, as much as they know, still do the same in heaven as they study their own “Heavenly Bible” which contains so much more of the WORD which they knowledgeably call the “Scripture of Truth” so as to learn much more (Daniel 10:21… But I will shew thee that which is noted in the SCRIPTURE OF TRUTH [heavenly bible]: and there is none [other angel] that holdeth [understands] with me [Gabriel] in these things, but Michael your prince[arch angel]…). So sleep on that. Selah!

    ==> Just Wonder:

    Okay we did veer somewhat from scriptural tenets about Adam & Eve’s sexuality in Eden and the forbidden tree being alluded to fornication of sorts. Nonetheless that “Tree of knowledge” in question together with the “Tree of Life” are well protected by the Angelic Cherubims with a “flaming sword” somewhere out there in the realm of the spirit so that man cannot access it to eat of it any more from eternity to eternity (Genesis 2:9 & 3:24… And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the TREE OF LIFE also in the midst of the garden, and the TREE OF KNOWLEDGE of good and evil… So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.). But as for this cankerous “tree of sin” vis-à-vis “fornication” man is still eating and frolicking in it till 2morrow. So the tree of knowledge did not depict fornication per se but symbolically it depicted “DISOBEDIENCE” to God.

    Nonetheless keep keeping it together in warning the saints as a good WATCHMAN till The Father makes His express Will and Word plainer and clearer to you.

  6. ==> TBJW & others:

    On the other hand, Just Wonder stands absolutely UNCORRECTED with her claims of that false prophet’s Free Mason signs or symbols. The fact of life is that be they Masonist, Illuminatic, Lodgist, Fraternist, Cultist, Occultist, Marinist, Necromancist, Witchcraftist or “whatever-ist”, they are all SATANISTS who must be exposed and expunged from the Church of Christ.

    That Satanic-Toga tightly fits that wearer namely the false free-mason prophet perfectly well! So why defend him?

    Besides flip the coin and see if these Satanists calibrate us like we do them. See if they care if you are Catholic, Evangelic, Apostolic, Orthodoxic, Protestantic or “whatever-ic”, because to them we are all “Christians” who must be eliminated and expunged from their sinful and fallen world.

    Okay say for instance the SYNAGOGIANS as usual say we are a bunch of backbiters, gossipers, haters and so on because we expose their antichrist “false prophet”, does it make it scripturally true? Nay! Because the Bible says to do just that so as to save their DECEIVED souls.

    (Ephesians 5:11-14… Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [EXPOSE] them. For it is a shame even to speak of those [SATANIC] things which are done of them in secret. But all things that are reproved are made manifest [EXPOSED] by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. Wherefore he saith, Awake thou [DECEIVED SOUL] that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light [SALVATION].…)

    Okay say we say, their antichrist prophet is a masonist, occultist, Satanist and so on because the Bible says that all such are ABOMINABLE human agents of Satan, does it make it scripturally false? Nay! Because the Bible says just that

    (Deuteronomy 18:10-12…There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire [RITUALIST], or that useth divination [VOODOO], or an observer of times [ASTROLOGER], or an ENCHANTER, or a WITCH, Or a CHARMER, or a consulter with familiar spirits [SPIRITIST], or a WIZARD, or a NECROMANCER. For ALL that do these [MASONIC & ILLUMINATI] things are an abomination unto the LORD …).

    • @Undertaker

      I don’t know if you noticed but there was a scenario of bro Hovind whom even @Just Wonder couldn’t tell us based on these hand signs if he was a Freemason or not. If these signs were foolproof evidence of involvement in Freemasonry then @Just Wonder should have had no problem declaring that Hovind was involved. I honestly don’t see why challenging & interrogating this claim can be construed as ‘defense’ for the false prophet TBJ. Not all Christians are ‘yes-men’, meaning not all claims will be met with amen hallelujahs, some will be subjected to a robust debate. This is the nature of a public discussion like this forum and unconvincing claims are likely not to be taken seriously by genuine & objective lovers of truth.

      • Remember also that the Bereans were not ‘yes-men’ to even Paul’s preaching, but wanted to verify and for this they are called noble. How much more then when someone is not even preaching the Gospel but making a claim? Are we then at fault, are we defending the false prophet by seeking proof to see if these claims are so?

  7. ==> Voke:

    I want to believe our sincerity in Christ is spotless, which I have no reason to doubt at all regardless of what Jesse opines. But let us not let ignorance lead us to (excuse my English), logicalize, rationalize and “philosophize” the spirituality of scriptural things that might levitate and gravitate us to “offend” and wrest with the Word of Truth.

    Because it is an abominable sin for us to DEFEND a false prophet in any manner whatsoever. Kindly name just one true prophet of God who did just that in the Bible. They all bar none spare none criticized, condemned and exposed the false prophets for what it’s worth including Jesus Christ Himself during His Earth Walk. So why should we skip the fence and play the devil’s advocate on this matter.

    Let the ignorant Synagogians defend their own “man-god” in the Synagogue to their own destruction if they like. Why should we partake in this ABOMINABLE OFFENCE with them? WHY?

    Hear out the scripture here: (Proverbs 17:15… He that justifieth [defends] the wicked [false prophet], and he that condemneth the just [believer], even they both are ABOMINATION to the LORD…)

    Let Just Wonder alone and let her express her well founded and grounded Free Mason suspicions, because you yourself cannot tell us how to ACURATELY spot a Free Masonist in the crowd can you? But trust me, these Free Masonists sure know how to secretly spot one another in public with their hand signs and hand shakes (which I have personally seen and experienced). In the same way witches, wizards, marinists and occultists know just how to spot one another in public with their spiritual marks, signs and symbols on their bodies, eyes, faces and heads. Believe it or leave it. That is the spiritual truth.

    They can even spot you as a true holy and righteous believer with the light of God shining brightly on your forehead which they can’t behold, hence they look away from your face when talking directly to you. I know this from personal experience with several of these Satanists. That’s how I too sometimes spot them as Satanists. So it’s a two-edged sword that cut both ways (John 1:4… And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not…)

    Lately, have you noticed the STRANGE BEASTLY, SCALY DARK MARKS ON THE FOREHEADS OF SOME MOSLEMS. Which they never had before as far back as 20 /30 years back, yet they claim it is from much prayer and “banging” their heads on the ground? So why did other Moslems of past generations not have the same dark mark on their foreheads from praying five times a day? Or perhaps they were not as prayerful as this present generation and genre of very prayerful Moslems. Besides is such a claim biologically and physiologically feasible? Nay, Nein & Niet!

    See the images link below:


    I declare and “counter-claim” their claim that is the PHYSICAL MARK OF THE BEAST already manifesting physically on the foreheads of the worshippers of the Beast regardless of religion, race, color or creed; in much the same way the SPIRITUAL MARK OF THE BEAST is already manifesting spiritually on the spiritual worshippers of the Beast coded as the number 666!

    (Revelation 13:16-17… And he causeth ALL, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a MARK in their right hand, or in their FOREHEADS: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the MARK [OF THE BEAST], or the name of the beast, or the [666] number of his name…)

    They can logically and philosophically dispute my claim but surely they can’t disprove it. It’s the same with Just Wonder’s Masonic sign claim. So why then would we defend the dubious “dark mark” of identification on the foreheads of the “Mohammedians” when you are not one of their followers or supporters. Likewise why would we defend the ‘hand signs” of a false prophet when we are not of their followers or supporters? That is just a Pharisee philosophical jingle w should desist from. Honestly! (Colossians 2:8…Beware lest any man spoil you through PHILOSOPHY and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ..)

    Remember what those “suspicious” Pharisees told the men they sent to arrest Jesus Christ, who came back without arresting Him, with their excuse of “defending’ the Words of Christ? (John 7:45-48… Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought [arrested] him? The officers answered, Never man spake [the Word of God] like this man. Then answered them the [Philosophical] Pharisees, Are ye also deceived? Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on him?…)

    • @ Undertaker,

      “Remember what those “suspicious” Pharisees told the men they sent to arrest Jesus Christ, who came back without arresting Him, with their excuse of “defending’ the Words of Christ? (John 7:45-48… Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought [arrested] him? The officers answered, Never man spake [the Word of God] like this man. Then answered them the [Philosophical] Pharisees, Are ye also deceived? Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on him?…)”

      I would like to ask you then how you would bring this in contrast of TB Joshua still walking around free ? It seems to quite a lot of people that he is not saying the things that Jesus was saying, but has been found by several observances in total error about things that TB Joshua has said in public and has claimed and others have claimed. Even to remind you of the fact that many things have been edited by cutting and pasting to get it “applicable” for the situation and events as such.

      I would like to mention as the claim to a new prophecy that would take place for Wednesday 3 February 2016 in where was urged to pray for something but not being told what.

      Source: http://expressng.com/2016/02/breaking-news-lagos-bound-bristol-helicopter-crashes-into-lagoon/

      However the same thing happened on 13 August 2015


      There is only one difference here: Bristow or Bristol. But they are the same type of helicopters as well the passengers inside were 11 in number as a total.

      Why did both similar accidents happen about six months from each other ? And it always happens when there is a Court case regarding TB Joshua verdict taking place.

      This is also coincidental. And it is clear that TB Joshua followers and African Media immediately have jumped on it to publish these things in the news as such as if they were instructed to do that.

  8. ==> Jesse:

    Kindly do us a favor and tone down your thoughts before typing them out as your burning fervency for the TRUTH is a major “threat” to the “online” survival of the LIES of these Synagogians, who I perceive “love to hate” you as much they did another ex-commenter like unto you a.k.a Nosa.

    Let them not rejoice at your “rude” speech, but rather tame your speech to the silent “soft-tones’ of a stalking cat’s feet lest the prey escapes. Get the picture Bro? (Colossians 4:6… Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man…)

    Remember that intellect is not intelligence and education is not wisdom as the former is human and earthly, while the latter is divine and heavenly. Try pitting Caiaphas the high priest’s intellect and education with Peter the apostle’s intelligence and wisdom and see who comes out smelling of roses. That how you come across when weighed against your intellectual and educated “critics’ on both sides of the Synagogian divide.

    So I encourage both you and JW to keep the battle raging and rattling against their antichrist gates till they surely succumb and submit in defeat!

    ==> General

    Finally, the scripture seconds Jesse’s assertions that every true flesh & blood human being born into the world as a result of the fusion of the human sperm and egg whether in the womb, test-tube or clone-lab is tripartite as in: BODY, SOUL & SPIRIT.

    Without which that human is incomplete and cannot be called a man or woman. Remember too that the antichrist himself even though he a product of Satan’s “seed” and a woman’s seed is indeed a CLONE OF SATAN, YET THE SCRIPTURE CALLS HIM A MAN NOT A DEMON LIKE THE DEVIL HIS FATHER!

    Likewise the Giants of old who were a product of the angelic seed and woman’s seed were still called men with human souls. How much more the product of a man’s seed and a woman’s seed even if they be clones. Therefore a man and all his so-called clone are both SEPARATE SOULS and not CLONED SOULS according to the scripture and each of them will give account of his own works on judgment day whether good or evil! C’est Fini!

    (Genesis 6:4… There were giants [of old] in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God [angels] came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children [human souls] to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.…)

    So keep focusing on the real enemy while fighting the good fight of faith and do no more no less as the Bible says:… Lay thine hand upon him [real enemy], remember the battle [of the Lord], do no more.…Job 41:8!

    A lengthy but necessary post!


    • @Undertaker

      ==> General

      Finally, the scripture seconds Jesse’s assertions that every true flesh & blood human being born into the world as a result of the fusion of the human sperm and egg whether in the womb, test-tube or clone-lab is tripartite as in: BODY, SOUL & SPIRIT.”

      I don’t know how closely you followed that discussion but actually that is our (mine, Vooke’s & TBJW’s) position on that subject. While I do appreciate you stating this, but your correction should be directed at @Jesse. He is the one who is erratically emphatic that test-tube or clone-lab babies have no soul. The scripture seconds our assertion, not Jesse’s! Go check out that discussion carefully!

    • @ Undertaker,

      About having a human spirit living soul as a test tube baby. That was Vooke’s unnecessary pressurizing question to me and brought forward someone as an adult. I did not answer to it simply because of what I stated that putting a sperm and a egg together does not receive at that particular moment a human spirit or a soul. Nobody wanted to look at that. Everyone went to the end result here. If people are of opinion that that it is so, then they need to tell us and me how that it is possible since the human spirit and the living soul can only happen to be according to the Scriptures as the life is in the blood as they have quoted. Since there is no trace of blood in a sperm, nor in an egg even when put together by a scientist then their assertion could never happen. So with other words the human spirit and a living soul comes then in at a later stadium. When Vooke brought forward the progress of a fetus made in one post then it should be at day SIX because then a heart and a bloodstream would have been created. However if the life is in the blood and you have received a human spirit and a living soul, then if you take somebodies blood and put it in a bag, then what I read out of it of their statement, is that the blood contains the human spirit and living soul and will then be transported to another person when they put it in their bodies. But to me in whatever they have done this, to me it is sin. I have not heard anyone really agreeing about that. And I clearly started with this topic that in the last few weeks have now been extensively put forward on the news about this. (I know it has been in the past) It was not when I started the discussion about it. So there are no coincidences there.

      Anyways, there is no further interest in this discussion, so let it rest. It is clear that only God knows exactly what will happen where and how. I have discussed that in several forums and nobody seems to have a universal answer on it. It is clearly a controversial conversation that possibly could be on everybody’s mind and a deep rooted question of how it we exist and what we are and why we are, what we are.

      • I have been warned against feeding silly trolls so I will only answer you ONCE.

        You equally have zero proof scripturally or otherwise that God places a spirit/soul inside the uterus upon/at conception/fusion nor that orgasm is a NECESSARY condition for God to breath His spirit.

        The question of WHEN God places his breath is unclear….nobody has answers,what what we all know is that products of AI/IVF are as humans as any other complete with body, soul and spirit. So God is as actively involved in formation of petridish babies as any other. If He was not, IVF and AI would not give us living souls.

        But the moron in you @Jesse went further and claimed that IVF and AI gives us soulless beings that are easily inhabited by demons.

        I have not ignored your posts not because of your wisdom but because I have been requested to suffer your insanity gladly. No amount of quoting or mentioning me will provoke me to condescend to your mindless stupidity again. So don’t bother responding.

  9. @Undertaker,
    Everyone is free to suspect everything and they don’t owe nobody no explanation for their suspicions.

    There was once a guy here by the name Nosa who went to SCOAN to deliver a message and ended up beaten badly. He had dreams or visions of TB Joshua, Oyakhilome and a third guy I can’t recall all being satanists. He has a book about that. Another moniker here @Sas told us they had this conviction in their spirit from the Holy Spirit that TB Joshua is wicked.

    We can’t fight any of that. But what I stand by is that they are highly SUBJECTIVE and therefore unreliable for in the same token we have other who have had these experiences confirming that TB Joshua is really a man of God.

    See it’s quite possible that @tbjoshuawatch had marvelous visions about TB Joshua’s deception and false doctrines, but they never share those. The foundation of this blog is not SUBJECTIVE experiences but highly OBJECTIVE claims that are easily verifiable.

    I’m least interested in whether TB Joshua is a mason or not but in upholding the integrity of this blog. If we keep on making unsubstantiated claims here, we will be no different from gossip magazines.

    Whether there exists Masonic hand signs is the least of my concern, my point is they in and of themselves are insufficient to label anybody a Mason given their frequency of usage among men.

    Finally, scriptures are quite clear about bearing false witness and talebearing. The warnings are not qualified whatsoever. It is therefore sin and conduct unbecoming Christias to spread gossip, rumors and outright lies over some perceived enemies of the cross.

    I will remind you once again that it is not really TB Joshua’s character at stake when we shamelessly purvey falsehoods about him but our own lives and relationship with God. And worse than this is that we stand in the way of hapless SCOANITES who read through our lies and adjudge us as dishonest gossips. They ignore the truth herein that is tainted with such unsubstantiated claims

  10. ==> Voke

    Scriptures says: that corrections and admonitions in the faith of Christ should be done both subjectively and objectively
    (1 Corinthians 13:6…..Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either [subjectively] by revelation, or [objectively] by knowledge, or [subjectively] by prophesying, or [objectively] by doctrine?.)

    Is prophecy not subjective in nature and yet should we not believe it after testing the spirit behind it if it is of God?
    Plus how do you objectively, scientifically or empirically test the spirit operating in a prophet? I’ll draw blanks on that one though!

    You see, objectivity and philosophy don’t work in the things of God? How do you view this “subjective” claims of Jesus Christ 2000 plus years ago to be both the Messiah and Almighty God : I AM THE BREAD OF ETERNAL LIFE…I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE…IF YOU SEE ME YOU HAVE SEEN GOD THE FATHER?

    It was absolutely UNBELIEVABLE to those very objective, avant garde, philosophical Pharisees. But you believe these claims of Christ today “sotto blank” that is why you are a saved believer right or wrong? That is the beauty of the WORD be have subjectively believed on by faith unto salvation.

    Try proving the spiritual existence of God the Holy Ghost in-dwelling us in an empirical and scientific setting and see if you won’t hit a brick wall like so many scientists have done in generations past. But we KNOW that the Holy Spirit exists and in-dwells us by faith because the WORD of God says so. End of discussion!

    Therein lies this all important truth: FAITH IN GOD IS SUBJECTIVE NOT OBJECTIVE
    Yet without FAITH it is IMPOSSIBLE to PLEASE GOD let alone enter into His eternal Kingdom!

    You keep thinking that this blog is a scientific journal. Nay!
    If it was, not a single soul will be saved by its scientific purview because scientific arguments cannot save a single soul.

    It is the Spirit of God that uses the Word of God declared here by the children of God, to convince, convict and save those lost souls. believe it or not that is the TRUTH!

    If you doubt a believer’s revelations and insights just because it don’t add up to you like Peter did in the case of the Cornelius the Gentile, that’s okay with the Holy Spirit.

    Then like “General” rightly says, seek to confirm it like the Berean Jews before believing it. But don’t go and condemn it outright just because you think it don’t sound right to you and lab-coated scientist can’t prove it.

    If the prophets and apostles of old who wrote the scriptures towed that objective line of thought they would have been found to be striving always with the Holy Ghost and sure puts Him off, because He doesn;t strive with us and would rather withdraw form us. God Forbid. Get picture?

    Just let Just Wonder’s claims, insights, revelations stand as said if you cannot provide contrary evidence from the scripture that it is false. Remember that the ways of God are MYSTERIOUS and what doesn’t make sense to you may make sense to another or even save another. That is the beauty of the Truth of the Gospel! (Romans 11:33…O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!…)

    Just let it Go.

    I counsel you to rather use the mind of a calculative “mentat” you seem have t(which I really like and appreciate) to engage, analyze and dissect the false SUBJECTIVE claims all those SYNAGOGIANS that their “Juju-man” is a true prophet.

    Now as an analytical mentat, don’t you go pulling me on my subjective angle of “Juju-man” claim by asking me to scientifically prove that indeed he is or he isn’t!

    Because subjectively, I know that I know that they have tried all sorts of spiritual JUJU and VOODOO attacks against TBJW for his “sin” of administering this Blog of Truth against them, all to no avail because the Spirit of God is encamped round about him. But then again, that’s for another day another doctrine.


    ==> General

    Sorry about the human soul mix up Bro. I guess it was not just clonish but clownish of me!

    ==> Jesse
    For real there ain’t no REAL HUMAN clone out there without a SOUL…where d’you think they’d end up on Judgment Day, heaven or hell?

    IT IS WRITTEN:…Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son [clone] is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die…Ezekiel 18;4

    • @Undertaker

      ==> General

      Sorry about the human soul mix up Bro. I guess it was not just clonish but clownish of me!

      Lol… 🙂

  11. ==> Jesse

    Scripturally speaking:

    My purpose is only brought pursuant to propagate the TRUTH OF CHRIST that saves souls from eternal damnation. What we post here others read and opine on them with or without expressing their views here.

    So to set the record right, the egg and sperm cells are just the biomass culture or flesh and blood body of the human soul complete with its DNA from both parents that encodes its blood-types, body features et al.

    But the blood-life in the scripture is referring to physical life of the human and animal bodies that expires upon death like when a dog dies not the spiritual life of the soul that will still continue in the after-lifelike when a man dies. (Deuteronomy 12:23… Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life …)

    Adam and Eve had no flesh and blood but rather flesh and bones. So in their glorious perfect bodies they had no blood flowing in them just like angels have no blood. It will soon be like that for all true believers in the day of “rapture or change” when we are done with this mortal sinful flesh & blood.

    Now as for the point when the soul enters into the human embryo (egg & sperm) in the womb, test-tube or clone-lab if you like, to transform it into a human fetus is pretty clear enough isn’t it? First it is called an embryo then a month or two later, it is called a fetus. That is the time or thereabouts!

    How it is done spiritually can be understood by the testimonies of “out of body” experiences of some people in near death situations in intensive care units, when they kind of “get out” of their physical bodies and see their “life-less bodies” lying on the hospital bed with doctors and nurses battling to bring them ‘back” to life.

    So also at the point of “fetal transformation”, the human soul according to the mysterious workings of the Holy Spirit departs from the “spiritual land” of the unborn babies deep down in the secret bowels of spiritual earth and literally “enters” into the embryo to transform it into a human fetus that grows into a human baby called man. That is why aborting a human fetus is a mortal sin akin to murdering a human baby. (Psalm 139:14-15… I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made [created]: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. My substance [human soul] was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought [formed] in the lowest parts of the [spiritual] earth.…)

    Again only the Holy Spirit can explain properly the spiritual process of how He so to speak, OVERSHADOWS the human fetus and BREATHES the human spirit of life that comes directly from the inside of the BODY of God into that human body or fetus at that particular “transient” point in time to make that MAN in the womb, test-tube or clone-lab become a “living soul” complete with his tri-partite BODY, SOUL & SPIRIT like unto the image of the TRI-UNE God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost.

    (Luke 1:35…And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall OVERSHADOW thee: therefore also that holy thing [Human Fetus] which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God…)

    (Genesis 2:7… And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and BREATHED into his nostrils the breath [human spirit] of life; and man became a living soul.…)

    (John 20:22… And when he [Jesus Christ] had said this, he BREATHED on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost …)

    As a Bible student that attends the School of the Spirit you may prayerfully ask the Holy Spirit to give you a deeper revelation of these things am trying to explain with my limited knowledge and understanding. He’ll gladly oblige you like He did me when I also asked Him (Jeremiah 33:3… Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things [revelations], which thou knowest not …)

  12. ==> Voke

    My time in the ‘cloud’ is shorter nowadays based on my immediate “assignment” from the Lord, but suffice to say this “last and for all” to rest this matter: the INTEGRITY of this blog in exposing the false prophecies, healings, miracles, signs and wonders of this false prophet is based and structured upon the infallible written WORD OF GOD in the Scripture that will convince, convict and convert the deceived souls unto the TRUTH and SALVATION of CHRIST.

    It is most definitely not based on logical, rational, empirical and scientific analysis or proofs that can probably convict this false prophet in a court of law on charges of ‘criminal negligence’ in his collapsed building even though that is also satisfactorily dealt with here by the likes of TBJW, Jesse & ORS.

    So convicting and jailing the false prophet in the court of law is not the onus and incubus of the spiritual matter or Battle of the Lord; but converting and saving the deceived souls from the antichrist claws of Satan is the REAL DEAL!

    Remember that in the logical and rational court of law you cannot prove that he is either a false prophet of Satan or a true prophet of God because to do that, you first have to prove the existence of God and Satan which the philosophy of human law tends to deny or down play in its own court of law.

    Similarly you cannot physically and logically prove to the religious people be they Catholics, Moslems, Krishnas and Sygagogians that praying to God with their PRAYER-BEAD like they do and bowing before or worshipping their idols of Virgin Mary, Black Stone, Hare Krishna & Juju-man in the Synagogue respectively is a MORTAL SIN unto eternal destruction. You can only spiritually and scripturally persuade them that indeed it is.

    Therefore if we try to defend these false prophets and ENEMIES of the Cross of Christ especially earmarked unto eternal perdition for any reason at all, even if we ‘believe” it is a logical and sensible to do; we are not gathering unto Christ but scattering away from Christ. No in-between! (Matthew 12:30… He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad…)

    Just like the disobedient King Saul who lost his kingdom and salvation thinking it was a logical and more sensible thing to do by offering the sacrifice to God in order to appease the impatiently waiting people instead of patiently waiting for Samuel the prophetic priest to come and do it. As well as saving the choicest cattle and sheep of the enemies he was instructed to utterly destroy because it was logical and more sensible to keep some for himself and offer the rest as sacrifice to the same God who commanded him to destroy them in the first instant.


    So play safe and leave spiritual things for spiritual discernment and logical things for logical analysis because in God’s Kingdom scheme of things, some claims are spiritual; like the Book of Revelations and some are logical like the Book of Leviticus as the Wise Book says:

    2 Corinthians 3:6… Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life…

    1 Corinthians 2:10-16…But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the [PHILOSOPHICAL] spirit of the world, but the [DISCERNING] spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural [LOGICAL] man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man…

    Every believer’s DISPUTE should end at the SCRIPTURE!

    SO LONG!

    • Thank you @Undertaker for your detailed response.

      The crux of your post seems to be ‘not everything is objective, therefore suffer subjectivity’.

      But my brother, why do you seek to divorce logic, reason from faith? Faith is 100% logical and reasonable. For instance, God is the creator,mother ultimate source of all. Worshipping Him is logical and more sensible as opposed to worshipping the things He has created.

      Besides, a question for you. Supposing God forbid your pastor is arrested in a sting operation targeting male prostitutes, not once, twice or thrice. Supposing too 22 of his female congregants filed sexual assault charges. This is over and above some 16 defilement charges brought against him, and not to mention 7 DUI charges. Let’s also throw in manufacture,possession and selling meth (Walter White😆). Do you need some heavenly vision telling you to leave from his covering? Is it not perfectly logical and reasonable for you to walk away?

      Now, as far as TB Joshua is concerned and to the best of my ability to discern the purpose and intent of this blog, OBJECTIVITY is the only thing that separates it from tabloid , gossip columns.

      For every negative discernment over TB Joshua, there exists maybe 100 positive discernments. How would somebody who hears both of these approach SCOAN? Just last week I was listening to a radio program and this lady was teaching about prayer and fasting, and how Holy Spirit expressly revealed to her that she needed to visit TB Joshua. Note this is Kenya. How would I help her? By regaling her with my visions of how SCOAN is a synagogue of Satan? But it would be her word against mine.

      You will appreciate that just about EVERY minister of the gospel had stern critics who just wish they never existed, or believe they are agents of the devil. I have come across just about every sort of criticism leveled at ministers, and my first question is, ‘ is this true?’ ‘Is the criticism valid’?

      Trust me I waste no time on dreamers and ‘visionaries’ because there is an abundance of those on just about every imaginable subject under the sun. I mean I have read elaborate Nigerian dreams about how make-up and pants for women not only repulse Angels but also lead you to hell.

      Very finally, scripture test for prophets are highly OBJECTIVE; their doctrine line must line up with scriptures and their predictions must be lethally accurate ALL the times. This is all this blog is doing; objective examination and exposing of TB Joshua.

      • If I may quickly add,
        Even Paul inspired by Holy Spirit introduced OBJECTIVITY in handling accusations against ministers

        1 Timothy 5:19 (KJV)
        Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses

  13. I think bro @Undertaker is blurring lines between logic/rationale & illogical/irrational. In his communication you get the sense that they are same & they not. Now there are examples that he cited to argue against logic/rationale/objectivity, but I disagree with these and here is why:

    I would argue that if we hold that Jesus is God in the flesh then His statements about Himself are absolute truth. Plus He has the backing of scriptural/Messianic prophecy, so He is being objective when He makes those claims about Himself because He is affirming an absolute truth. So if Jesus says He is the Savior, It may sound subjective, but if you think about it is very objective, He is stating an absolute fact.

    The Pharisees argument SCOANites also love to throw around.
    The Pharisees were not at all rational & objective when dealing with Jesus. They were highly subjective. They didn’t test Jesus according the Messianic prophecies. At least Philip (John 1:45) though it proper to apply Messianic prophecies (law & prophets) to Jesus.

    King Saul was not at all doing a logical and more sensible thing when he kept some cattle for to sacrifice. He went against the direct instruction of the Holy God who created all things – nothing can be more irrational & illogical than this.

    As far as we know many scientists in generations past believed in God and this didn’t conflict with their work.

    Objectivity is a Biblical principle (Deuteronomy 16:18-20). We ought to judge a righteous judgment. That means consider the facts.
    John 7:24 “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”
    Even in judging the false prophet TB Joshua’s fruits/ministry, we ought to do it according to the Biblical principle – righteously (objectively).

    • Thank you @General.
      When I gave that hypothetical example of a criminal pasta(sic), I never meant to ridicule spiritual discernment but rather to emphasize that in such a case, objective and verifiable evidence suffices to guide one’s decision.

      There is sufficient well researched and presented proof in the posts on this blog to rouse any SCOANITE out of their spiritual stupor. As such, one needs not be caught up in the third heaven either in the body or out of it to catch a glimpse of TB Joshua’s deception; it is staring in our faces

      • @ Vooke,

        It is clear that all fanatic SCOANITES don’t give a hoot about what you both and General are thinking then besides saying in a zombie drone fashion broken record, “TB Joshua is a man of God.” Whether there is a load of evidence here, they just don’t give any notion or acknowledgement about it and still go down there despite in being lulled in a deception. They simply don’t care. IT’s all about their idol and rubbing shoulders with him because they think they can get something out of it all what they can’t do at home. That is why there are all these trinkets every few months or so.

        I see even online on all kinds of other forums they behave the same way. The hypnotic reply of a few everlasting same sentences and that is it. Further there is no conversation possible beyond there ever again. It means you can argue about it until you are blue in the face about it.

      • @Vooke
        “…one needs not be caught up in the third heaven either in the body or out of it to catch a glimpse of TB Joshua’s deception…”


  14. For scriptural purpose #1:

    Let’s engage our online General one last time:

    Faith is not human objective logic. Matter of fact, it is the exact opposite namely subjective logic.

    Note the following unparallel miracles of Bible times produced by pure unadulterated SUBJECTIVE FAITH that no one has been able replicate in our present time :

    By SUBJECTIVE FAITH Moses divided the Red sea; Joshua, Elijah and Elisha divided the River Jordan not by objective logic

    By SUBJECTIVE FAITH Joshua commanded the sun and moon to stand still for a whole day; meaning that the earth was compelled to stop rotating on its axis, which also compelled all the planets, moons and cosmic objects in our entire Milky Way Galaxy to stop all form of orbital movement just because a certain Hebrew guy called JOSH who did not want the sun to set that evening subjectively said so! Tell me where’s the logic and objective sense in there? None!

    The Bible says never again will such a “crazy” prayer of faith be answered because God is not willing to keep distorting the order of the earth’s solar system like that again. (Joshua 10;13-14… And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.…)

    By SUBJECTIVE FAITH Elijah declared a permanent dry season all over the world for three good years where no rain fell and the God had to change and re-order the seasons of the earth just because an angry Hebrew guy called Elijah subjectively said so!

    By SUBJECTIVE FAITH the same “crazy” guy called Elijah called fire to come down from heaven to devour his enemies “twice” just incase the logical and objective “mentat” mindset of the likes of Voke (just kidding) might say it was just a fluke and freak of nature.

    By SUBJECTIVE FAITH Isaiah ordered the hand of clock to go back (anti-clockwise) by about 10 degrees (20 minutes) just to prove to Hezekiah that his prophetic declaration will come to pass. God once again had to reset the human time to permanently become 20 MINUTES LATE per se even till today, just because another “crazy” Hebrew guy subjectively said so! Boy, them Hebrews are good! Now you see why all Biblical prophets are Hebrews?

    By SUBJECTIVE FAITH Peter walked on water just like his Master Jesus Christ did, until his objective logic a la General (no offence meant) told him that, the water under him is not exactly solid granite, because of the crashing waves lashing around him.

    By SUBJECTIVE FAITH Jesus Christ Himself blessed a few fishes and loaves which was distributed to feed over 5000 hungry Hebrew men not counting the women and children who should be more than that; and still had 12 baskets of leftovers. Boy just picture the disciples dishing out the fish and bread in their hands to people and the fish and bread keeps MATERIALIZING out of nowhere in their hands nonstop. There is no objective logical sense in all the these miraculous moves of God and you can’t help but be subjective about it else you’ll never believe it except you see it happening live like Thomas who must first objectively see the logic in it before believing that Christ is Risen. Not Peter though, who believed before seeing and rushed to the tomb to “see” that his subjective belief is the logical that Christ is Risen indeed.

    • This would make a great sermon on another day, but right now it is a subtle shift of goal posts. You are now talking about miracles and nobody argued against that. You don’t have to trouble yourself educating me about it cause my little logical half brain had already figured it out that Biblical miracles defy logic, that’s why they are miracles, as I told a certain SCOANite a while ago:

      I know the difference between faith in the God of the Bible who works miraculous wonders & blindly believing unsubstantiated claims. You are blurring the dividing line. Go check my post, I disagreed with the examples you used to argue against logic/rationale/objectivity, which I still think were not good examples to support your stance, and I also stated that objectivity is a Biblical principle even though you seem determined to demonise it. Your overall communication seems to somewhat vilify the Bereans’ spirit which we are advocating.

      We can wrestle the whole day about Thomas whether his actions can be seen as trying to “objectively see the logic” or he was being plain ignorant of the scripture + his own walk with Christ.

      I know what faith is & I also know what it is not – blindly swallowing any online accusations leveled at any one [without proof] is not faith at all, and seeking proof of such claims is not at all seeing is believing syndrome of Thomas but it is righteous judgment [something we are clearly commanded to do].

      • @General,

        ‘….know what faith is & I also know what it is not – blindly swallowing any online accusations leveled at any one [without proof] is not faith at all, and seeking proof of such claims is not at all seeing is believing syndrome of Thomas but it is righteous judgment [something we are clearly commanded to do]……’

        Am wondering at this rate whether the videos @tbjoshuawatch and the Debunker guy have meticulously sourced, analyzed and shared are necessary if all we need is faith in @Just Wonder’s hand signals or @Undertaker’s blanket accusations.

        @Undertaker if you or your pastor was subjected to such ‘faith’/baseless allegations, I’m sure you would take a different stance.

        P,ease brethren, let us not try to disguise gossip and slander in some super spiritual jargon

      • Forgot to mention this other point which is similar to the other points I disagreed with bro @Undertaker about. His creation vs evolution argument is also not a good one to use against objectivity. The assumption is that evolution hasn’t been objectively proven wrong, while the actual truth is that it has been proven wrong. Actually evolution itself has never been convincingly proven right by its proponents. Just because it is in the textbooks it doesn’t mean it is a fact. What we do know is that most of objective, logical, rational, empirical evidence does actually support scriptural creation narrative. Like you said @Vooke the other day that evolution is an Antichrist agenda.

      • Excellent points @General,
        Evolution propaganda is so strong that even there is such a thing as theistic evolution which claims that God’s ‘hand’ worked through evolution to wrought life.

        If you want to see evolution myths debunked, please visit creation.com. God-fearing scientists and philosophers right there.

        Like I conceded, there is ample room for subjectivity and subjective experiences in the Christian Faith. But when it comes to accusations against men, Christians or otherwise,nothing short of solid facts is admissible. The highest degree of objectivity is observed.

        The only people who loath objectivity while accusing others are gossips and talebearers. They are easily confused by facts

  15. For scriptural purpose #2:

    You must agree with me that human logic is to be objective about the things of God before believing it, which is knowledge based on physical sight; while divine faith is to be subjective about the things of God before believing it which is knowledge based on spiritual sight.

    I want to bet that our good old objective Voke if she was there, would have questioned the logic and common sense of Noah when he was busy building a giant Boat-Ark on a mountain top of all places where there is no water, just because of his flimsy SUBJECTIVE claims that God showed him in a dream, vision or revelation that He was going to destroy the earth and all mankind with a global flood. Right or wrong Voke? Remember there was no Written Word of God then, just the Spoken Word of God.

    I also want to bet that our ‘online’ General would not want to “believe’ the Holy Bible if for instance he was living in the days of Abraham after reading thru all the SUBJECTIVE prophecies of the prophets from the early days of Moses to these endtime days of the antichrist, because it sounds too fantastically “fictional” to be factual. But now he believes them because time and tide has proven them to be logically and rationally 100% accurate as they have all (but a few left) come to pass one by one in the last 4000 years.

    So for him anyone who doesn’t believe the Holy Bible must be illogical and irrational in his thinking, like those scientists who write the globally accepted science textbooks and teachings that still denies the Creator’s creation and prefers the creature’s evolution. Meanwhile those scientists who he says believe in God, cannot come up any compelling objective, logical, rational, empirical evidence to scientifically prove these “atheist” scientist wrong so that human science can finally change its textbooks and teachings on human evolution in favor of scriptural creation.

    Quite unlike Galileo 500 years ago who proved those objective scientists peers of his wrong that claimed the earth was flat in favor of the scriptures which stated that the earth was circular or spherical over 3000 years ago in the as at then “subjective visions” of Isaiah the prophet that is now an “objective fact’ of scientific pictures…er sorry… I meant scientific visions! Get the picture? (Isaiah 40:22…It is he [God] that sitteth upon the circle [sphere] of the earth, and the inhabitants [human] thereof are as grasshoppers…). This scripture proves once again that believers should first and foremost be subjective and not objective in the things of God.

  16. For scriptural purpose #3:

    Once again, I repeat, the “seeing is believing’ syndrome of Thomas is not meant for subjective believers but for objective doubters! (John 20:29… Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou [objective doubter] hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they [subjective doubter] that have not seen, and yet have believed…)

    Objectivity is good but surely not good enough as that will hinder the move of God in your walk with God when you are always doubting and rejecting the dreams, visions and revelations of God, just because others are getting false dreams, visions and revelations from the devil. That is why you need to pray for a discerning spirit or alternative pray to God to confirm if such is true or false before you heed or discard it respectively. That is how to relate to God in spirit and in truth (John 4:24… God is a Spirit: and they that worship him MUST worship him in spirit and in truth.…).

    If like Voke opined, an objective believer flees from a false prophet because he was finally arrested and jailed for his secret crimes, 9 times out of 10, he will flee into the hands of another waiting false prophet because the seed of deception sown in him will likely lead him to another place of deception. But if a subjective believer after receiving the Word of Truth by faith, flees from a false prophet he will most likely not fall into the hands of any other false prophet because the seed of truth sown in him will lead him away from any other place of deception. That is why subjective faith in the Word of God saves souls and not the objective logic in the words of men!

    This is what the most prolific writer of the scriptural books Paul the apostle said; that his message was by subjective revelations of Christ and not objective teachings of men.

    So I say that some things of God are objectively accepted by “scientific’ believers who do not grow in the faith but remain static in their STRIVE with God because they are “cramping’ God’s style if you catch my drift.

    While most things of God are subjectively accepted by spiritual believers who do grow in the faith and perform mighty and miraculous works in their WALK with God to the glory of God, because they are “marketing” God’s style if you know what I mean.

    This choice is ours to choose between subjectivity over objectivity and not objectivity over subjectivity. Remember that both is required for believers, but one must supersede the other in the things of God.

    I have chosen the way of subjective spirituality over objective logicality and will never trade it for the other way round, as that is the right WAY of the Holy Spirit who relates to us Spirit to spirit not Logic to logic. (Ecclesiastes 11:5… As thou knowest not what is the [right] way of the spirit…)

    Finally, Jesus Christ said: … but also if ye shall say [by faith] unto this mountain [Everest], Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the [Pacific] sea; it shall be done…Matthew 21:21

    Hi there! Where’s the logic there?

    I Really Rest My Case!


    • @Undertaker,
      There is room for objectivity and subjectivity in our relationship with God, but what is as clear as daylight is the fact that from Genesis to Revelation ALL accusations MUST be founded on solid facts.

      Don’t accuse others of things you have zero evidence for as you are just gossiping and talebearing.

  17. @Undertaker,
    It’s quite simple; accusations MUST be supported by solid facts or ignored with utter contempt

  18. @ All,

    After the elections of Nigeria a big man will die were the words of TB Joshua. Well who was it ?

  19. Let’s dig deep into the scripture:

    We can bring it on like this. I did not want us take the matter head on but to use a soft touch approach. But since that is not working lets use the hard talk approach I normally reserve for the likes of the Synagogians.

    It is written: … after that thou shalt have known that the heavens [spiritual] do rule [the physical]…Daniel 4:26!
    Meaning that the SPIRITUAL CONTROLS THE PHYSICAL. Meaning that the spiritual proofs via dreams, visions & revelations of God is by far SUPERIOR to the SOLID FACTS of men.

    It is written: …For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts…Isaiah 55:8-9!
    Meaning that the SPIRITUAL WAYS & THOUGHTS of God is un-quantifiably superior to the PHYSICAL WAYS & THOUGHTS of men.

    It is written: …Where there is no [spiritual] vision, the [physical] people perish…Proverbs 29:18!
    Meaning that the believer that disregards, distrusts and disdains the SPIRITUAL revelations of God will surely PERISH at the hands of his SPIRITUAL enemies and that without remedy.

    It is written: … Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter [logic], but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life…2 Corinthians 3:6!
    Meaning that whosoever professes that the spirituality of our eternal-life giving Faith in Christ is immaterial and inconsequential is NOT A BORN AGAIN BELIEVER who is born of the Spirit of God, but a comprehensively deceived Christian. No apologies, no exemptions!

    It is written: … Having a [physical] form of godliness, but denying the [spiritual] power thereof: from such turn away. For of this [objective] sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning [the letters], and never able to come to the [spiritual] knowledge of the truth…2 Timothy 3:5-7!

    Brethren, this means that you MUST divest your attention from any frivolously ignorant “believer” who belittles and berates the SPIRITUAL which we MUST accentuate and amplify over and above the PHYSICAL. For this our physical world of humans we live in, is just a tip of the “iceberg” which is the spiritual world of God, angels, and demons that is by far more REAL than ours.

    • @Undertaker,
      There is nothing spiritual by any stretch of imagination in peddling cheap and unsubstantiated gossip and rumors. These are at best marks of spiritual immaturity and carnality

  20. Verily, Verily I say unto thee:

    Firstly, you don’t rubbish the “spiritual things” of the scriptural Word of God as some “super spiritual jargon”. It’s an error. It’s a common attitude I find with die-hard Jehovah’s Witnesses who do not believe the Holy Spirit is the third Person in the Divine Trinity of God and blaspheme against Him, saying He is an in-animate “thing” or active force of God; and do not believe that the spiritual place of torment called hell-fire exists; and claim that Jesus Christ the Son of God, is the spirit being called “Michael the archangel” and also claim that those Christians who worship in church on Sunday are “marked” with the mark of the beast. So I do not waste my time “correcting” with the “Word” such deluded “witnesses’ who disdain the spiritual things of God rather I “cut” them off with the Word. I hope I am not dealing with Jehovah’s Witness heretic doctrine here! A HERESY OF HERESIES!!!

    Secondly, you cannot claim without your own SOLID FACTS that Just Wonder is fabricating false accusations at a GLOBALLY ACKNOWLEDGED & RENOWN false prophet in Christendom, and then demand for her own solid FACTS to prove to you that his a Satanist i.e Free Mason. Let me logicalize your own logic: it means to the neutral observer that you MUST be a Free Mason to know for a FACT that the false prophet in question is NOT a Free Mason like you, else how do you know that he is one or not with or without the hand signs? How, how, how?

    Thirdly, when God reveals to you that the false prophet is using satanic or “witchcraft” powers to perform his false miracles and deceive ignorant folks how do you prove this spiritual presence of WITCHCRAFT powers in his satanic ministry with your so-called SOLID FACTS? Or do you think just by saying that his uses “unscriptural practices” is enough solid fact? What about the Catholic, Anglican, Orthodox, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Apostolic, Lutheran, Scientology, Jehovah Witness (etc) “unscriptural practices” peddled all over Christendom in this endtime, is that also enough SOLID FACTS to label all of them as using Satanic or witchcraft powers?

    Fourthly from erroneous assertions you are saying now that even if God spiritually exposes a witch, wizard, occultist or marine agent spiritually operating in your church who is attacking the lives, finances, health and faith of the members to you, via dreams, visions & revelations, you should also reject and regard it with UTTER CONTEMPT because there is no SOLID FACT to objectively, logically and physically PROVE that that person is a witch or wizard per se. Then I put it to you that if you are not a witch or wizard, how do you identify a witch or wizard with SOLID FACTS? Plus why would you go all out of your way against the “grain” to try and defend an ACCUSED witch or wizard when you too are not a witch or wizard who is trying to protect your own kind? It sounds very suspicious! One can understand why Jesse is somewhat suspicious of your affiliations whether you are really against or for this Juju-man in the Synagogue!

    Fifthly, from Genesis to Revelation it is written that an ACCUSED person may be proclaimed GUILTY by the judges at the TESTIMONIES from the mouth of two or three WITNESSES whether they be spiritual (visions) or physical (solid facts) testimonies

    (Deuteronomy 17:6 & 19:15… At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he [witch/wizard] that is worthy of death be put to death;…at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established [physically or spiritually] …)

    (Matthew 18:16… But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established…) &
    (2Corinthians 13:1… This is the third time I am coming [claiming] to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established [physically or spiritually].…).

    Sixthly, except you want to dig yourself into a “trench of resistance” against the truth, regardless of scriptural evidence that proves that you can publicly ACCUSE someone of satanic manipulations against you when you have solid spiritual evidence to that effect; then all the erstwhile SPIRITUAL ACCUSATIONS levied on this site by scores of testimonies of dreams, visions & revelations against this false prophet, from true believers, whom the Holy Spirit delivered from his satanic witchcraft manipulations against their lives is null and void according to your own erroneous judgment. Then this TBJW site has no further use and benefit for the Holy Spirit and His true children who are SPIRITUALLY led, taught, tutored, counseled, comforted, supported and protected by the SPIRIT OF GOD. because we are not intrested in following a scientific site that has no bearing on the Word of God but focuses strictly on scientific facts. Then count me out!

    Can’t you see that the caption on top the site is based on the Word of God (Deuteronomy 18:22)?

    • @Undertaker,
      This blog is not founded on cheap gossip and rumors because these are UnChristian and marks of immaturity. Please find a gossip column that freely admits bloviating and vent as much as you can. Once you are ready for serious Christianity, you are always welcome here

  21. Lastly, If you for one idle moment think that true born again believers will invest their online time on SATIRICAL SITES like the “Debunker’s Video” to grow in knowledge, spirit and truth of the Word of God as they do on this TBJW SITE, strictly because of the QUALITY of scriptural insights and spiritual edification they obtain here, then you must be in self denial like these BEWITCHED Synagogians. Then again you wouldn’t even believe that these Synagogians are SPIRITUALLY BEWITCHED because you must first have SOLID FACTS of their bewitchment otherwise you would regard it with UTTER CONTEMPT.

    a) Then you must also regard with UTTER CONTEMPT the apostle Paul’s FALSE ACCUSATION without SOLID FACTS against those “innocent” Galatian believers he claimed have been spiritually BEWITCHED by false prophets from following the Truth of the Gospel; without very objective and logical SOLID FACT as his spiritual knowledge of this is no proof but mere SINFUL GOSSIP & TALEBEARING against them (Galatians 3:1… O foolish Galatians, who hath [spiritually] BEWITCHED you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?…).

    b) Then you must also regard as SPIRITUAL JARGON, the same Paul the apostle’s FALSE ACCUSATION against that “innocent” little girl that followed them about, he claimed was possessed with a demon (evil spirit of divination); without very objective and logical SOLID FACTS as his spiritual knowledge of this is no proof but mere SINFUL GOSSIP & TALEBEARING against her (Acts 16:16-17… And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination [demon] met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: The same followed Paul and us …).

    c) Then you must also regard with UTTER CONTEMPT, our very own Paul the apostle’s FALSE ACCUSATION against that “innocent” Sorcerer called Elymas a.k.a Bar-Jesus whom he claimed was subtly and satanically manipulating against Governor Sergius Paulus from receiving the salvation Gospel of Christ; without very objective and logical SOLID FACTS as his spiritual knowledge of this is mere GOSSIP & TALE BEARING against him (Acts 13:8-10… But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith [in Christ]. Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him, And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief [satanic manipulations], thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?…).

    Finally, I put it to you that while I COMMENDED “General” for ACCURATELY acknowledging the superiority of the spiritual over the physical that defies all the objective logic of the physical; I stand uncorrected to CORRECT you for ERRONEOUSLY advocating to the faithful Brethren to despise and disregard the SPIRITUALITY of our Faith in Christ which is the essence of our WORSHIPING GOD IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.

    Oh Lord have mercy!

    • @Undertaker,
      If these are your best proof that gossip and talebearing is scriptural then am afraid you are hopelessly shallow.

      Let us examine them in details;

      (a) The Galatians
      We know too well that there was a Judaizing faction in the early church that clung to Moses post-Calvary, and that they were strong enough to provoke Peter to hypocrisy in Galatians 2. So strong were they that they swayed Jews to revert to Judaism to avoid persecution as evidenced in the book of Hebrews. We also know that Paul planted churches and did 3 major tours over his Christian life. We also know he was constantly appraised of their spiritual health by his co-workers who he constantly sent. And finally, we have no proof that he had visions,dreams or hallucinations of the spiritual state of Galatia. Question is, how does this help in justifying your gossiping addiction?

      (b) The divining slave-girl
      First, soothsaying is demonic so anybody engaging in it is NECESSARILY demon possessed. There is ample evidence that her skills were well known to others and her owner else how did she bring him great gain? So stating that she is a soothsayer and demon possessed is totally OBJECTIVE. Secondly, Paul cast out the demon and she ceased soothsaying and her master suffered lost income. This further bolsters my first point that there was objective evidence of both her soothsaying and demon possession

      (c) Elymas the Sorcerer
      We take God at His word. Scriptures says he withstood them in verse 8. How on God’s beloved universe is this an accusation of any sort? Luke is reporting it as a historical fact the same way he reports Pentecost, breaking of bread, killing of Stephen and so forth. The very fact that it is recorded that he withstood them is all proof we have that he withstood them. Luke was Paul’s companion so when he reports an incidence, it is silly to claim that he did so without evidence or out of some spiritual experience.

      It is evident that NONE of your examples support gossip and talebearing. As such,we are not going to run with baseless claims by a moniker here because we are well taught of the Spirit and we know better than to peddle cheap gossip and old housewives’ tales.

      I also wish to remind you that there NOTHING spiritual about gossip and talebearing

      Now, if you have proof that TB Joshua is a Mason, present it here, I’m sure @tbjoshuawatch is magnanimous enough to welcome a guest post. I’m sure you’d make a wonderful tag team with @Just Wonder on this ‘noble’ exercise.

      • @Vooke

        Thanks for pointing out yet another new batch of @Undertaker’s fallacies.

        At this rate innocent readers might think we disputed one of the Bible books, whereas we are just questioning the validity of accusation based on some hand signs.

    You don’t even know the fractional half of the PERSECUTIONS, ATTACKS & SLANDER both physical and spiritual I have suffered and endured in the decade, at the hands of the ENEMIES OF THE CROSS OF CHRIST from Satan to the Synagogians all over the world both in the spiritual and physical realm, just for the sake of the TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL of our Lord, Saviour and Master has committed unto us, so don’t even try to go there.

    Sitting at the comfort of your couch and pressing some computer keys makes you think you are preaching the gospel eh?

    Have you ever HAZARDED your life for the gospel or even been given a tiny little DIRTY SLAP just for going out to declare the WORD of God to the Islamic unbelievers in the same Kenya where you live, who are busy executing and beheading Christians over there, even as it is over here in Nigeria?

    Now you wanna to play the PREACHER’S WIFE to me? Hold your peace woman!

    (Galatians 2:6 & 6:17…for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added NOTHING to me…From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the [spiritual] marks of the Lord Jesus…)

    I have no need for these endtime pastors, neither do I have any need for their fleshly prosperity doctrines and demonic miracles ministration which adds absolutely NOTHING to me; as the Holy Spirit my MENTOR and His “holy angels” my BRETHREN, see to my spiritual growth in the scriptural knowledge, wisdom and understanding of the Word, Will and Kingdom of God, by the Grace of God.

    Plus…Just like my predecessor Paul…I BEAR THE SPIRITUAL MARKS OF CHRIST IN MY BODY!

    I have paid my dues and will still pay my dues to offer my life as my ULTIMATE SACRIFICE for the Kingdom of God according to the Will of God!


    • Hi @Undertaker
      Please don’t post multiple, lengthy comments like this. The purpose of the comments section is for conversations, and these kinds of essays are not good for dialogue.

    • Regardless of how highly you esteem your own spirituality, which is a sign of haughtiness’, you will never outgrow the need of Christian fellowship.

      The inspired author of Hebrews was light years ahead of your spirituality by EVERY plausible parameter yet they extolled the need of Christian fellowship;

      Hebrews 10:25 (KJV)
      Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

      And as long as the earth remains, Christian fellowship will need Christian Leadership

      • Let me quickly add
        I really have no idea what prompted your comical outburst of your spiritual CV but I can freely tell you that it is highly irrelevant to the subject. When we develop cravings for your spiritual stunts,we will definitely look for you.😉

        You may have toiled harder than all the apostles combined,sacrificed more than any known Christian since Pentecost but point remains;

        UNSUBSTANTIATED claims against men are the staple of gossips and talebearers and are so unChrist like that only the spiritually dead or comatose would be indifferent to them




    • Creationism need not be ‘proven beyond doubt’, it is simple reductionism.

      If there are two people X and Y locked in a house and one day they wake up to a sumptuous made and set breakfast, and if further we are 120% certain that X did not make it, then we can reasonably conclude that Y did it.

      Life exhibits such complexity that is impossible to have risen by chance(evolution/X). Intelligent design(Y) is the only alternative we got.

      Evolution over billions of years is as plausible as a source of life as one of the Japanese active volcanoes throwing up a sparkling new Subaru Impreza WRX

      • On a lighter note, maybe you need to write your own white paper thesis on CREATIONISM that will cause a global sensation and send the entire scientific world scurrying to re-write the science textbooks to stop EVOLUTIONISM dead on its satanic track.

        Since as you say the onus is on you to prove your so-called X & Y factor of creation which was indeed the spiritual work of the Holy Spirit as revealed to us by Moses in his subjective scriptural visions and revelations of God, which you do not ascribe to in the first place.

        The Joker’s Joke is on your Joke!

      • Just found this interesting article:

        Evolution’s Science Status

        “The status of evolution as a science is verging closer to extinction following a work shop in Germany last month. The essence and definition of science was on center stage at this historical convening of the leading physicists and philosophers of science last month.”

        “Specifically, at stake is whether the new concepts in emerging in physics – specifically, the string and multiverse concepts – is true science or just a philosophy. The pivotal issue centers on whether empirical evidence is still required to establish a scientific theory. Since science standards apply across the spectrum of the natural sciences, the outcome also determines the evolution’s science status.”

        Source: http://www.darwinthenandnow.com/2016/01/evolutions-science-status/

      • @Undertaker,
        On a serious note, you need to walk me through Abiogenesis. But then again, I have tested your hollow logic and found it wanting. Stick to what you do best; spreading old housewives tales and gossiping 247.

        Back to the topic.
        Show me a single proof of dreams and visions used to publicly accuse ANYBODY in the scriptures. You can throw in Apocrypha for a good measure😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆

      • But bro @Undertaker is so into subjective visions. Is there evidence that the creation account was really Moses’ visions & revelations? Isn’t Moses considered the editor of Genesis? As in he compiled it from data he had from patriarchal records under divine inspiration of course?

  24. @Undertaker,
    Here is wisdom for living;
    You don’t make claims and dare us to disprove them; we DEMAND evidence for your claims instead.

    So when @Just Wonder makes a ridiculous claim such as hand signs, the burden of proof is on her to demonstrate that there is any sense in her garbage claims, and not on me to prove that there isn’t.

    The hand signs we have all dismissed with utter contempt because ANY public speaker with thousands of hours of videos online and thousands of photos readily available is bound to employ them at some point.

    Don’t aks us to prove a negative that TB Joshua is NOT a Mason, but rather, shower us with PROOF, incontrovertible proof and we will believe you, else you are just a hyper-spiritual talebearer

  25. @Undertaker,
    Enough of your diatribe,
    It is quite unfortunate that sober believers resort to meaningless and unscriptural glib to cover up for the error of their ways

    Show me a SINGLE instance where visions,hallucinations and dreams were used to publicly accuse anybody from Genesis to Revelation.

    • You can go to Isaiah 6 and is a complete example of a visionary visit to God’s realm and a complete with the expected motifs and accusation. In the simplest version of this kind of patterns you will see Moses, Nadab, Abihu, and the elders of Israel eat and drink in the presence of the deity, whose feet rest on a luminescent, lapis lazuli–like pavement which is written in Exodus 24:9-11. Then in 1 Kings 22:19-23, Prophet Micaiah reports seeing the deity (God) surrounded by his courtiers, “the Host of Heaven,” to his right and left, and he hears them plan the death of king Ahab because of his very bad kingship and being under control of queen Jezebel who even had killed Naboth to please him for to get hold on the vineyard of Naboth.

      For example, Prophet Micaiah learns that God himself is going to send a LYING SPIRIT to the prophets in order to achieve the death of King Ahab which is written in 1Kings 22:20-23.

      Some biblical texts recognize that those who dream may MISINTERPRET their dreams or even make them up what you can read in Deuteronomy 13:5 for example. Perhaps this is why some biblical texts express a marked preference for direct word oracles what you can find in Numbers 12:6-8.

      We see Prophet Isaiah’s report of his visionary experience in Isaiah 6 which is similar, though it provides a more majestic image of the deity (God) enthroned. Then we read further that God’s robe (train) fills with His Glory the Heavenly Temple, the Seraphs arrayed to His right and left attend Him with songs, the thresholds are shaking and the house is then filled with smoke, as in the powerful revelation scene at Sinai in Exodus 19. What you further read in Isaiah describes his emotional response and a purifying ritual involving with hot coals that transforms him into a messenger of God, a mission for which he volunteers to become that person. The oracle he is to deliver is heard in this heavenly setting, conveyed in a visionary experience. And yes here we see a Divine Accusation materialize against king Ahab there who was a very bad leader in Israel and so receives his judgment and dies according later on by Jehu.

      • Latest video of selfish personal promotery acts to make name big and special trumpeting in the open and send in PR department to glorify name of TB Joshua. His name is attached and it is not even his own personal money.

        By very clever deceit buying out those with money to get favour with them and then profile themselves as well doer with money that is not theirs in the first place. Then make sure they make plenty video testimony to show to the world that his name needs to be glorified.

        Matthew 23:5 But all their works they do for to be SEEN of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

        Matthew 6:4 That thine alms may be in SECRET: and thy Father which SEETH in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

        Why make extensive video to whom you are giving ? Is it not for yourself to be known ? To be praised by men ?

        John 12:43 For they loved the PRAISE of MEN more than the praise of God.

        John 5:44 How can you believe since you accept glory from ONE another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?

        Can anyone tell me is this how it is done ? You pick and choose what is convenient for yourself in looking better in people’s eyes because of their suffering ?

  26. @Undertaker

    I find the central message of your write-ups very dangerous. The silent yet very clear message one can take out from your posts is that @Just Wonder’s claims (or anyone who claims to have had visions/dreams) are just as equal to those recorded in the Bible. You seem to be suggesting that if we question visions/dreams then we might as well question the Bible. This is not Christianity! This is a cult tactic to break down the sobriety & sound mind of vigilant children of God.

    Several people claim to have had dreams/visions from God confirming that TB Joshua is true prophet of God. Genuine believers who would take your advise would be led astray all because in you you equated visions/dreams to the Bible. Be reminded that the likes of a certain pastor by the name of Maxwell Echibeh claimed to have had a vision after fasting & praying and in the vision Jesus called TB Joshua “his son”. If we follow your line of thought we would dare not question this vision because it would be tantamount to questioning Apostle Paul, and that the “spiritual”[vision] is superior to the physical [facts proving the contrary].

    I find it interesting that for your spiritual growth & scriptural knowledge you depend on the spiritual realm. Sun Myung Moon made similar claims. He claimed that what knew & taught, he didn’t learn from anybody but from experience & communion with the spirit world. He also reckons he suffered persecutions for preaching in public, was imprisoned & almost worked to death in concentration/prison camp.

    Let’s get back to the topic: hand signs are not a conclusive indicator of involvement in Freemasonry. If my father was involved in Freemasonry, my mother, my sister & I would certainly know about it. Yet my dad makes some of these hand signs at times when explaining something. I make those signs sometimes and I think I would know if I were involved. Mark Woodman makes these hand signs too by the way, whose videos @Just Wonder heavily shares on this forum to hammer this point, now isn’t that ironic!

    • @General,
      I had not thought about Woodman. I challenged @Just Wonder to give me a single name she is super certain is no freemason and then share their videos and photos to see if we won’t get all the signs from them.

      There is a pattern am noticing. @Just Wonder and @General were grievously hurt by SCOAN. They are victims and as such would readily believe anything negative about it and TB Joshua. That’s why they never bother to check the claims made seeing they are comforted by all these bad claims.

      While we can’t possibly understand their pain and anger,we should not blackmailed by their bad experiences to buy into unsubstantiated gossip. Just because you are a victim of SCOAN does not mean your claims should be given a free pass.

      The truth is what sets people free not fabrications.

      We have to give it up to @tbjoshuawatch for weighing eye witness accounts against each other to discern patterns. We should never rush to accuse others. That’s why multiple witnesses were required

      • @Vooke


        There is a pattern am noticing. @Just Wonder and @General were grievously hurt by SCOAN. They are victims and as such would readily believe anything negative about it and TB Joshua. That’s why they never bother to check the claims made seeing they are comforted by all these bad claims.”

        NOTE: I’ve never been involved or hurt by SCOAN. Typing error from your side possibly?

        I specifically mentioned Woodman because I have seen in some of his presentations he made some of these signs a few times and then he apologised to his audience saying it was not “intentional”. I would say he was cognisant of his own signs because that was his topic. Why don’t they accuse him of possible involvement? There is heavy bias there. When Woodman does the signs it’s ok, it’s accidental, but when my dad does it, a certain guy here whom he doesn’t even know suggests it’s not accidental he must have been involved in the past and on my part it’s not accidental, I must have inherited it. Now if there was never a clear practical example for the word Ridiculous, this is scenario is surely it.

  27. @ All,

    Could someone please explain me what is the difference between TB Joshua and a Muslim Mosque doing the same things as TB Joshua does.

    Please watch and inform yourself for your own entertainment and see how the Christians are being duped by TB Joshua and his demoted wisemen.

    And Yes, Gary McGoff loves TB Joshua and can’t stay away from posting videos about TB Joshua and pick and mix what is suitable for him to promote TB Joshua and himself on his Youtube account.

    This is Gary for you, when TB Joshua was in full force many years ago, he made big Youtube account with TB Joshua videos, by his own words 2000 of them then when TB Joshua got closer to trouble, he all of sudden deleted his account, only to surface a few months later and continue to make his own videos, but as soon TB Joshua turns up, Gary is back up big in force again. Gary is same kind of Chameleon. He pick and mixes what suits Gary and hides and reappears just like TB Joshua. He feels that he is mateys and alter ego with TB Joshua. Together they will conquer the world with fake deliverance videos.

  28. @ General,

    “I make those signs sometimes and I think I would know if I were involved.”

    You make these signs because it is in the DNA of you and that does the same type of things that your father and your mother do. When you get older you will notice these things and you have not learned them from your family. It’s just there. So that is not a good comparison at all. It is proven that this is true and the case because they made an entire documentary about it a few years ago.

    Further Freemasons would not disclose to anyone than their own kind in what they are involved with. Certainly not in the Christian church to those who are. That is why these signs they learn. How do they know each other it is because of these hand signs and handshakes which they do towards each other. Depending on how the handshake goes it is a confession to each other of being a brother of the Lodge. On top of that, before you were born your father could have been in there but could now have renounced it for whatever reasons they might have. Although it is very hard to renounce Freemasonry if you are high up in the Lodge because they have decreed some terrible curses over themselves if they ever would renounce the Freemasonry. This could even be to the splitting or bursting open of your own stomach kind of curses. You can imagine if there is no deliverance through Jesus this kind of curses will manifest in those who have done this in the past. And believe me I am not sucking this out of my thumb about that. I have seen it happen before my own eyes.

    PS. I am kind of curious why there is such a big resistance and opposition about this Freemasonry attachment as being directed to TB Joshua all of a sudden…. Why ? When someone protests too much about it, can be that it might be true instead and a reason to make big excuses to say that it is not so.

    • @Jesse
      It’s very simple why we resist the Freemasonry attachment to TB Joshua, and that’s because there’s no evidence! It’s the same reason we’ve not covered the widely circulated story about the Juju priest claiming that TB Joshua comes to him for powers – it’s gossip! To be honest, I could quite easily believe both claims, but until there’s further corroborating evidence beyond speculation or specious claims, we’re not going to damage our credibility by reporting it. When Nosa came to us with his story of being tortured at SCOAN, we first confirmed the account with others who were there at the time. The only reason we post about sexual abuse claims is because they are so numerous and consistent, and since false rape claims are so rare we can be almost 100% sure these claims are true.

      As we’ve said before, there’s volumes of credible evidence to completely discredit TB Joshua to anyone with a rational mind and halfway decent understanding of Christian theology. There really isn’t any need to get dragged into claims without evidence.

      • Correction @tbjoshuawatch,
        We are not RESISTING TB Joshua’s Freemasonry connection, we are demanding PROOF of this connection….credible PROOF.

        It is one thing to critique fickle and ambiguous ‘evidence’ and it is another to deny a claim. The burden of proof is on the one making a claim to back it up, and not us to disprove their claims

    • @Jesse,
      As you are aware, this blog is largely unmoderated, and just about every comment barring spam goes through. @tbjoshuawatch makes a post and then allows us, visitors to post comments. I noticed that claims of TB Joshua links to witchcraft, marine world, masonry freely flow in the comments not unlike manna. Those spreading them probably presume that that silence of other guest and the owners of the blog vindicate them.

      So when @Just Wonder went further and made several posts of her ‘evidence’ of TB Joshua’s Masonic links, I felt I had to do something. I challenged her on the evidence of her claims and exposed them as inconclusive and ambiguous.

      My objective is simple; to provoke us to CRITICALLY examine the evidence of claims presented before us lest we be carried away by gossip and rumors which is a sin, and secondly, to highlight the danger of using bold fabrications to win cultists. While it’s quite possible that a few may be scared off SCOAN by ridiculous gossip, I don’t subscribe to ends justifying means; if the truth is insufficient to save a man, then nothing else can.

      I have nothing against @Undertaker nor @Just Wonder, but I will not join them in peddling gossip against an object of their wrath.

      I wish to salute @tbjoshuawatch for maintaining high standards of interrogating claims. That is and it continues to be their greatest strength; they’d rather go for weeks without publishing nothing than post loose tales.

      • @Vooke,

        Can you explain this then ? Why if TB Joshua went to Colombia and his followers claim that he did a blow to Satan. Why is this then ?

        Why ? Why wherever he goes he leaves a trail of problems and death all over the world with his fancy prophecies. Why if he knowns it all he just sits down and do nothing than so called “prayers”. Does God even listen ? Whether he is in Freemasonry or not. It really does not matter. The sooner they take this deceiver away the better. Enough people have died and enough people have been taken for a ride. He needs to go. Why change the tune of the song ? There is enough evidence that he wants world domination with his name attached to it and I believe he is taking people to hell instead of being saved. He is doing everything against and beyond what is being taught of getting people saved. He is doing his own thing that has onmy the Name of Jesus attached to it and he is a con. That’s not talebearing. It’s clear but people will not see and just behave hypnotised and do everything to derail those who point out where it really goes wrong and the make it right by bribing, wriggling around because the can and have no respect for any Government or Government institution. Cut off his money supply and he is nothing anymore. He is using it to clear his name by picking out cases in where he can elbow himself forward with and playing on people’s emotions.

      • Secondly

        Why can’t TB Joshua not be interrogated himself ? If he has done nothing wrong. Should he then be afraid of water boarding, connected to a lie detector, coming to court, etc to stand in front of the world to tell his pathetic lies he has been holding up as well his followers as well his staff and trustees as well those that are be commanded to come forward and have done nothing than hindering the investigation of the illegal hostel and that without building permit as claiming this was a command from God to do such ? Anyone has to do it, why not them ? Why is cupable homicide ok ? Or manslaughter by gross negligence ? Why can he and their staff and followers do everything to quash it ? They don’t want to be martyr all of a sudden ? But make innocent victims martyr to further their own agenda ? No words are there to describe this !!!! If you and I can’t do it, why them ? Any clever psychopath will deny their wrong doing.

  29. @Jesse,
    TB Joshua is verifiably many bad things but Masonic he is not, no unless and until there is evidence that he is one, it is bearing falsewitness to call him thus.

    As @tbjoshuawatch wisely advised, let’s stick to and propagate what we have evidence for. In short, let’s stick to what we know

    • @ Vooke,

      It’s not false witness. No one in the highest ranks of Freemasonry is going to show you that they are unless you have met in the Lodge or in their homes. That handshake with CS Upthegrove is very much masonic in the picture up in the other post I made. Go back and look at it closely and study it. Only those that know about Freemasonry and have links to it knows that those things are and how they are done. You will find those handshakes among the Royals in Britain too if you watch them in meetings. You think they are inviting you to Bohemian Grove or in the cave of Geronimo for example ? And say, hey dude come and join us for a bit and we will tell you everything inside out what we are doing here. You won’t come in there but they are sitting there. It’s a secret society, you are not invited unless you are from a particular standard in society. Just as the Skull and Bones are. Stop being diverting on it and get into it. Watch and observe. You keep sweeping it away.

      • @Jesse,
        We have been through this discussion before and it is a tad tedious repeating the same things over and over. I hope you are reading other comments before posting yours.

        ‘Hand signals’ are plain silly and inconclusive because they are employed by non-Masons and Masons equally. Do this simple exercise, pick anybody you are certain is no Mason, pick a couple of their photos capturing handshakes. There is 99.99% chance that you will ID a ‘Masonic handshake’.

        If you,@Just Wonder and @Undertaker wish to keep in regurgitating this garbage, go ahead. Talebearing is a profession for some…an addiction. Just keep it to yourself and stop smearing this blog with cheap gossip and silliness.

        As soon as any of you have enough incontrovertible proof of his Masonic ties, get in touch with @tbjoshuawatch and they will do a post on the subject

      • @Jesse
        I get your point that secret societies don’t shout about being in a secret society, but that can’t be used as an excuse for making accusations without clear evidence. There’s an awful lot of conspiracy theory around groups like the masons simply because they are a secret society so people on the “outside” fill in the gaps. It’s important as Christians to not get dragged into that kind of behaviour. As for the CS Upthegrove handshake, I don’t think I’ve seen it. Was it something like this?

  30. Been following this discussion (dreams vs empirical evidence) with much interest. The question on my side, when does an individual (Christian) start to believe in the dreams/visions he has? When does he start to act upon them, or notify his brothers around him or those they are directed to?

    • @Sheba,
      Permit me to give my opinion on the subject.
      I belong to a church departments and we are currently going through the bible. Since Jan we have done Genesis,Matthew and presently we are in the middle of Exodus.

      Dreams struck me as a major theme in both Matthew and Genesis, I’d say they are our heritage. Added to this is the Joel 2:28 prophecy about dreams and visions. So dreams are godly. But we also kno some dreams are certainly not of God. Some are mere products of our thought processes.

      As a general rule, I believe the dream life of a Christian is an extension of the Christian walk and as such, whatever is ungodly such as homosexuality or say adultery should not manifest in dreams. This means a dream full of such is certainly not of God.

      Another thing about godly dreams is they are consistent with the written Word of God. For instance, a dream instructing you to divorce your husband contradicts God’s position on divorce and marriage. So this is either demonic manipulation or a product of your imagination. In short, dreams ought to be tested against the scriptures. This means lack of depth in scriptures is dangerous as you lack the wherewithal to judge dreams.

      If you receive instructions in a dream and you are unsure, you can always get on your knees and pray for God to confirm it. It is not God’s will that His children be led astray so I’m certain God would sooner confirm if indeed the dream was from Him.

      Armed with confirmation and conviction that there is a message that needs to be passed on, you should not hesitate to do so. If your brothers are skeptical about it, you should not take offense. Caution is not carnality. Request the, to pray about it and leave them as you have done your bit. Many believers get exasperated that others doubt their dreams or visions. But it is not your job to convict. Leave that to Holy Spirit.

      Regarding the subject,
      God may give you a dream regarding another’s secrets or character. The Wisemen were warned about Herod’s evil intents in a dream. Pilate’s wife learnt about Jesus’ innocence in a dream in Matthew 27. There is a moniker @Sas who claims to have been warned about TB Joshua in a dream or vision. We can’t dispute that.

      My view is dreams and visions and revelations MUST never be used to publicly accuse anyone for the following reasons;
      (a) This is without scriptural precedence. We have countless instances of public accusations but none based on these
      (b) Dreams are unverifiable whereas public accusations must be verifiable
      (c) Dreams may as we have seen have ungodly origins such as the flesh/carnality or demonic

      In such a public online forum such as this blog where you are dealing with strangers and anonymous monikers, I’d say it is better to err on the side of caution and ignore claims that can’t be backed up. This is a safeguard against turning the blog to a gossip and rumor mill. They say bad /negative news sell fastest and are more easily believable. A faithful Christian should not exploit this to peddle rumors as they would easily be sinning against God by bearing false witness.

      Apologies @tbjoshuawatch for my lengthy post

  31. @ Vooke

    Much appreciate your time to give insight on dreams and visions. I knew just as much, and I hope that as the objective of this blog is to show the light to the Christian community, even though focusing mainly on TBJ, that this would no doubt raise awareness on any other false prophets vs the ways of the Only true and Holy God.

    Also couldn’t agree more about the risks of false accusation. That could not be emphasised enough.

    I feel however, given your explanation on dreams above and the spiritual nature of Christianity, that just maybe one should err on the side of caution and not be too hard on “dreamers”. With their own spiritual maturity, dreamers will know to seek guidance from the right place on what and how to act their dreams, even if that were to denounce false prophets.

    One mature Christian may have a dream to warn believers on something to come, i.e. (post dream) physical manifestation or evidence. In that case, just maybe hear them, warn them or point out the inconsistencies with scripture and leave it up to them.

    Discouraging dreamers from contributing here may affect the spiritual nature of what all visitors to this blog, whether for or against TBJ, claim this journey to be. A relationship with God or gods, which is spiritual.

    Therefore, maybe bear with the dreamers, point out the weaknesses, just as I had seen it so well done here, and let them be.

    My little piece 🙂
    (Saw no need to quote scriptures as both sides to the discussion have excellently exhausted all scriptures there are in support of either position, lol)

    • @Sheba,
      There are good reasons why you won’t run into visions or dream based posts by @tbjoshuawatch. The blog distinguishes itself from rumor mills by ONLY working with verifiable claims. May be there are other ways of winning SCOANITES and warning would-be SCOANITES, but for me, this approach really works. And I totally support it.

      One can’t be skeptical enough in an era where attacking ministers is a career to some. Not especially among strangers as we all are strangers.

      Supposing @Sheba has this vivid vision of TB Joshua in the heart of River Nile at a witchcraft coven making a human sacrifice and drinking blood and drinking fellow witches ruin in the process and you rush to @tbjoshuawatch with this scoop. @tbjoshuawatch does not know you, your faith or past…in fact al they know about you is your moniker. How are they supposed to test that? By praying? If that was the case, they’d need to be on their knees perpetually given all the fantastic tales they receive.

      Contrast that with Yourself overhearing TB Joshua claiming in an old clip that he is messiah of today or something. You grab the clip and share the blasphemy with @tbjoshuawatch. They watch it and verify its authenticity and next thing it goes online.

      In short, sticking with verifiable claims is safer and more sensible.

      Now, supposing somebody claims that TB Joshua has a third eye at the back of his head and the evidence of this is the way he smiles!

      Would you not dismiss that evidence as preposterous?

      So let us separate bogus evidence or fantastic claims from visions and dreams. Bogus evidence ought to be trashed, visions will continue to be ignored because of the nature of this media( Internet) and @tbjoshuawatch’s MO not to mention innumerable petty goal out there in the world.

      Stay blessed my dearest sister

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