Over the 5 years we’ve run TB Joshua Watch, we’ve had a lot of responses from pro-TB Joshua readers. One of the most common objections we get is “don’t fight God’s battles, leave it to him – if TB Joshua isn’t of God, God is perfectly capable of taking care of him”. The more biblically literate critics would often cite the story of Gamaliel, the pharisee who saved the apostles lives in Acts 5 by famously warning the council “keep away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or this undertaking is of man, it will fail; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!”.
What should we make of this advice of Gamaliel? It was good that he gave this advice at the time he gave it, it saved the apostles lives which in turn resulted in continued growth and strengthening of the church. But taking this account and making it a universal principle is misguided. Do you really think this one account completely neuters the churches ability to call out false teaching? Can anyone claim they have heard from God with total impunity, because we have to “leave it to God in case we be found opposing God”? Should we assume that any religious movement that doesn’t quickly fail is “of God”? Of course not! If this were the case, it would nullify many teachings of Jesus (who warned frequently that we should be on the look out against false prophets), it would mean Paul was mistaken to call out false prophets by name (2 Timothy 2:15-18) and it would mean Jesus was wrong to commend the church of Ephesus for testing those who called themselves “apostles” and finding them false (Rev 2:2).
More to the point – if you tell us we should “leave it all for God”, we hope you’re consistent enough to say the same to TB Joshua. After all, he’s well known for diagnosing people as having “demons” and “casting them out”. Why can’t he leave it to God? Does God need him to fight his battles?
God delights when we serve him, even though he doesn’t need it. Does he need us to preach the gospel? Does he need us to pray for the sick? Does he need us to give to the needy? Does our righteous living make him any more “God-like”? The answer to all these questions is of course an emphatic NO! But we all recognise these as important elements of the Christian life. So too is warning people about “deceitful workers disguised as apostles of Christ” (2 Cor 11:13).
By all means disagree with our conclusions regarding TB Joshua, but don’t lazily object to it because you think it should be left to God. Nobody really believes this, and even the people who use this objection are quite happy for others to “do God’s work”, as long as they agree with them.
TB Joshua Watch 
The Holy frequently speaks to me in dreams and not long ago i asked him if TB Joshua was a false prophet. What he showed me was powerful. There was a large dining table (similar to the ones in stately European homes) and TB Joshua was presiding over his most loyal and faithful workers. They drank from a cup similar to a communion service. As they passed this around, the Holy Spirit pointed out to me that they are been brainwashed to do whatever TB Joshua asks them to do – the whole thing was demonic. It felt so real and i woke up and wrote it down.
@Sas,
I’m the last person to dispute your revelations or question their authenticity but, did you know there are countless others who have received ‘confirmation’ and visions that TB Joshua is a man of God? We also have heard testimonies of those who claim that TB Joshua visited them in their dreams and cast out their diseases and so forth.
My point is, private revelations are highly subjective and should not be purveyed alone as proof since in and of themselves they are insufficient. I don’t want to imagine warning SCOANITES against TB Joshua because it was revealed to @Sas by the Holy Spirit that he is a bad and demonic dude.
I get your point but my spirit is not settled with him. Sure it might have been a dream but God is telling me something.
sas you need deliverance
@tbjoshuawatch,
Concerning ‘leaving it to God’, is it not interesting that the very advisors would not ‘leave you to God’ but go out of their way to counsel you on ‘leaving it to God’? How about they take their own medicine?
That apart, let us observe that Gamaliel was not a Spirit-filled Christian, just a respected Pharisee and scholar. This means his counsel is not necessarily of God. His words MUST be weighed against what is clearly Spirit’s counsel on this matter. We only need to look at how Paul and the church dealt with false teachings. Take Paul and how he handled Peter’s hypocrisy in Antioch according to Galatians 2. He rebuked him publicly there and then.
Another noteworthy point is the fact that in scriptures DESCRIPTION is not PRESCRIPTION. Just because an event is recorded, it does not make a doctrine. Examples abound. For instance, the early church sold all and ate together. Any attempt to repeat this today is ALWAYS met with failure. In fact, it was NEVER repeated nowhere else, not even in Jerusalem.
When one studies Revelation, all ungodliness is destroyed ultimately and only the Kingdom of God remains. But before that happens, the deception (Beast/Dragon) robs many of their eternity. This interim before the ‘Final Solution’ is when believers are called upon to EXPOSE works of darkness- Ephesians 5:11
Am I the only one who has noticed that we are likely to lose all sobriety and suspend reasoning when our pet idols are touched? I recall once reacting angrily at a suggestion that some of Munroe’s teachings were unscriptural. This was just after he passed on. I was not an avid fan of Munroe yet I got overly defensive without weighing the evidence before me.
We need to guard against making idols out of men
Excellent points. You’re right, the story of Gamaliel is descriptive, not prescriptive.
@ TB Joshua Watch,
Does your answer not prove also that you are actually pro TB Joshua instead of unraveling him, because that is how it comes over ? From the beginning I was here, nobody interacted with me for years for whatever reason they had. Then finally when a discussion came in one of the former posts you all did everything in your capability and capacity to coerce me in your train of thought about something that had nothing to do with my question in the first place.
If you can’t read the satire in the other post regarding Vooke of that kind of behaviour which is evident then why are you setting an ultimatum that is unreasonable and unfair.
If you did not like my answers about certain things you think is the right answer upon then you should not take it out on people to coerce them to comply with your point of view. The only thing then would work is not to use the sledgehammer attitude that I have encountered in the last posts. In all you thinking being right can be that you are completely wrong. Of course this can work both ways.
But you should not deny the fact that some of you consistently have put this forward to me of to actually go away from this blog which then comes over that you rather feed your own stories and suspicion that you are actually pretending you are Anti TB Joshua but in fact Pro TB Joshua to make his name known through this blog.
If you are on such a program you should definitely be more convincing whose side you are on. After all some of the posters here are ex SCOAN and are likely to still have a soft spot for SCOAN because of spending time there in their lifetime. So did I. It is clear some of you if not all have clearly been fighting me for your own belief that everything you all say is the right answer to it.
I experience it as the same attitudes that were present in SCOAN. And if SCOANITES then address you as such as you purport maybe it is time to review your own ways of application of your own replies.
I have addressed Vooke in the past before of sitting on the fence because that is how it is perceived here on my side of the screen. It’s not the first time. It is also not the first time I have engaged with Vooke with another ID on other websites elsewhere because I can see in the way of writing of how this is. That you favour another here above someone else (and you purport to have the love of Christ) must be the reason why you have to resort to such a ultimatum as last call of desperation.
Jehovah Witnesses, Baptists and Catholics are doing exactly the same thing as you do now. Excommunicating someone that is poking at them to be transparent of their ways of practicing their beliefs.
It only shows the weakness of yourself and not of others in this case.
@ Vooke,
“Examples abound. For instance, the early church sold all and ate together. Any attempt to repeat this today is ALWAYS met with failure.”
I would like to ask you why this would not work ? Are you saying that when you say “with everybody” it means actually just a few people where it just does not work with ? Like in the case you would do this.
Have you ever gone to Monasteries ? Or a Nunnery ? Out of your answer, I can see you have not. Maybe you should, then you can see it works perfectly and it does not fail. Even for hundreds of years.
http://www.touropia.com/amazing-christian-monasteries/
Will you respond with a nonsensical rant and compare me to inhabitants of SCOAN and TB Joshua’s followers ? Fence sitter, you. You eat from two sides why don’t you admit it ? Think about it next time which side you are on.
@ Vooke,
Is it not obvious that you do everything in your oratory rants and coercing to me that you actually want me to leave, so you can rule here unchallenged on all the topics and the contents to the inflation of your own ego boasting ?
I am waiting on the impact of your special prayers your promised. It seems they bypass the quality control of the Holy Spirit and are dropped. Perhaps some dry fasting will help and some solitary environment that gives you some insight that it is not all about you alone in this world. You don’t hafta be on place no. 1.
A while ago a similar individual was doing that to me too this hissing and firing at me. He was shouting and yelling at me and giving me the finger and called me all kinds of evil names from a car he was travelling together with his friends. This was while I was waiting on a busy stretch of a road to be picked up by somebody. There was a ten minute stretch between this other car and the car that picked me up. So while travelling the same route as my angry predecessor we soon caught up with the same car. Only to see that this car was completely total loss and the inhabitants had been crushed up on the motorway. I wanted to stop and see if I could do anything or help for them but my driver did not wanted to stop on the hard shoulder because in danger himself with his own car.
PS. the above story I did not copy and paste. It was real time. It is time you get off your fence. Personally, I am not very fond on fence sitters who constantly choose to write as well looking for straw man arguments and expand on their ability to coerce you in the way they want you go in a discussion.
Perhaps this will recall some memories from the place from your own memory.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35360415
First think before you speak and write here, eh ? Now start shooting from the hip and then look around who is still standing form your high horse sitting on the fence position again. Make sure you can analyse and research all my posts with copying and pasting and also make links and references to my former posts in case you think I said something else that did not suit you again in an ad nauseam. Then next make sure you rub shoulders with all the others here at hand and check if they wear the same aftershave and eau de cologne and then make a four square Gospel disposition statement again with a super swipe of your hermaneutical doctrine exegesis dogma declarations for all to see here online.
And… don’t forget to bring in Kent Hovind as quarter back up in as well, with whom you level daily as your online Bible text sparring partner side kick and also make sure you feed your insatiable hunger to check on others’ forum straw men again so you can wade in with pumped up ego chest as a daisy cutter bomb. Ofcourse you will swoop in with high special effects with the Latin Vulgate interpretations as well the Douay Rheims Bible and so try to blow away your imaginary competition you think that I am regarding yourself and then you can prop up your coercing debate skills again of high level dogma cornering tactics. Whatever floats your boat, Goofball. Be happy and put on your nappy.
@Jesse
This kind of incoherent ranting gets people put on the spam list. It feeds right into the hands of SCOAN supporters who love it when they can write off their critics as unstable, unkind and ungodly. Consider this your first and final warning.
@tbjoshuawatch
Amen to that!
@ General,
Why did you have to Amen on that ? You call me your brother, but you go behind a prayer ending to stop my conversation here.
Why don’t you come forward who’s side you are on ? Because it is not clear of which one you are. If I can’t say that, then why do and come over like that.
Let me say to you, I did not like the way our conversation went in the other posts and that is where the root cause lies here. With writing to you is also clear now of what you are really thinking. There is a way in teaching a person, but as it went, I did not get anything out of it. Now go and think about that for a change of how you applied it. If you thought I was blind to something there would have been other ways to express yourself. On top of it you were hiding behind God or put God in front of it all. I thought if you would be teaching a thing God would be speaking through you and not just put God there and nothing came out of it after all. It was you people who made me angry in the way you put it forward. It annoyed me that none of you could really diffuse it in the right way. If Vooke needs more respect than me then tell me why is that ? Is it because Vooke can speak more eloquently in online debating ? Or is it that you rather want to say another person is actually “ranting” and being “mentally unstable” with no solution on offer than an ultimatum of excommunication here. And if you are on the end of your tether in debating this difference then ask from God more patience and tactics in how to deal with that in your own personal life because that is what you expect from me as well. But that could never be working if you cut off somebody in the hope they just will implode. That’s a bad way of doing it that way. Very, Very Bad.
Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual <~~~~, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
The reason why we are concern is because we are mandated to be our brothers keeper, to stand as a guild to the blind. It is natural for the bird to fly and the sun to shine. We can’t fold our hands to see destruction coming on people without warning them. It demonic to see the blind going astray and you dont care. The scripture say:
“Those who are wise shall shine Like the brightness of the firmament, And those who turn many to righteousness Like the stars forever and ever. Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.”
Daniel 12:3,10
@ General says:
January 24, 2016 at 7:01 pm
@Just Wonder
“I think in a little way you have proven our point, which was that photos like those are not a solid reason to accuse someone of being a Freemason. You couldn’t bring yourself to say that he is a Freemason – basically these hand signs didn’t tell you much, you need more to work with, which is what exactly what we are saying.”
Take care 🙂
Just to answer your question here quickly – You are right in saying that you cannot say that a person is a Freemason or not, just because of one thing e.g. hand signals or dress code etc. I agree that you need to evaluate the whole person and his ministry. Applying, what I put on the block about Freemasonry, that is correctly applied to tbj and his ministry and proof that part of him is Catholic. Taken his whole ministry in account. The other parts of tbj are – Bantu prophet and -Islam. So TB Joshua is this mixture, like a chameleon.
He will be what ever you want him to be.
@Just Wonder,
What we are saying is, not only re the hand signs inconclusive evidence of TB Joshua’s Masonic ties, they are also hopelessly ridiculous given their frequency of usage by any public speaker.
Do you have anything else concrete on TB Joshua that points you to his Masonic ties, or are you going with your hunches?
@ Vooke,
You must watch their ‘posed for photos’ hand signs. Remember they are subtle. They won’t do things openly. The ‘posed signs’ – still photos – are like deaf people’s hand signs. They mean something. If you are not a deaf person, you will not understand the language. It will look like normal gestures. The Freemasons speak to each other through ‘posed’ hand signals. Still photos. They do have members in other languages that will only understand the sign language of Masons. Check out the ‘posed’ photos. That is specially chosen to convey a message to the other masons and they use ‘natural’ sign language to do so. Then you also need to check out the rest of their ministry of cause and not jump to conclusions.
@ Just Wonder,
I agree with you about the Chameleon comparison. Because that is what he does at all times. So that you like all his colours and if you don’t like one, he just changes them so he can pursuade you to liking him.
Is it not peculiar that Vooke is the one that consistently fights us for the reason of putting everything for explanation of both sides. This I called sitting on the fence in where Vooke can steer the conversation as Vooke sees it has to go to his ways of debating. I find it very manipulative and even will go to force feeding you to get Vookes answer instead of being a teacher Vooke wants to ram it in your throat.
Not realizing that it is hurtful. And if TB Joshua followers and himself look here how that goes he will sit there, like see, see, see. I told you. TB Joshua is the one that sets up people against each other with his Chameleon behaviour and so will his sidekicks. Consistently being elusive and manipulative. Using every venue to be on a deceptive track and wiping evidence out with a branch they are carrying. Telling you they are doing the Lord’s ministry while they get away with the most awful atrocities the world has ever known and at all costs and at the expense of people that he makes his willing victims by his Chameleon ways.
Indeed he mixes up all these things to accommodate everyone only to siphon off their money so they can carry on with their circus.
@Just Wonder,
I know the ‘signs’ are supposed to communicate something. What I’m questioning is the basis on which you can draw a distinction between a Mason and a non-Mason seeing they both wield the same ‘signs’ at a similar frequency. Does not make no sense whatsoever.
You @Just Wonder, if you have enough photos of yourself giving speeches, would find yourself using the same ‘signs’. Your pastor, mother or anybody else must needs use these common ‘subtle signs’. So the signs are no proof of nothing. And I challenged you to mention ANY public speaker you are dead sure is not a Mason and we can look at their stills. I can bet 110% you will find them using the ‘subtle signs’.
What this means is, only a priori bias helps ‘confirm’ your suspicion that one is a Mason.
Once again I plead you to cease and desist from peddling unsubstantiated rumors and innuendos on this blog because it flies against the very heart of the blog;OBJECTIVITY.
If you have any credible and reasonable proof for your claims, please lay it bare. I refuse to partake in your gossip, and I won’t hesitate calling out baseless rumors here.
I am ashamed to come to this blog, the spiritual level is close to zero. You say silly things and you rush to quote the Bible. You only need to simply count how many people you managed to turn against TB Joshua and how many your website have converted in his favour.
Hi DOMI – why do you come to this blog?
CROOKS, CROOKS, CROOKS !!! BEWARE !!!
WHO ARE YOU ? Who opened this website? You can not talk about others while you hide yourself. THIS IS AN IRRESPONSIBLE WEBSITE. No one accept to be responsible for it.
Beware of fraudsters !
people want healimg and deliverance n also blessings from God thru TB JOSHUA. The best way to stop them following Him is to start your church and show them how genuine man of God do it. Or advise us which church to go not just to critisize without giving us solution. if i stop believing Him who should i belive. Tell us who are ypor genuine man of God n if u are one give us yo contacts then we cme there n see how yu do it.
The campaign against TB JOSHUA without giving us direction of where to go is useless u r doing nothing until u tell us who u believe
@ Saint,
It is the idea that you follow Jesus Christ and ask if you can be baptized in the Holy Spirit so that you can read your Bible on your own. After many times being involved in ministry of many and have been working with TB Joshua. I have decided to come out of all of them. They last years I was involved into ministry from others I got nothing out of it than annoyance, irritation, anger and rejection. I have no interest into that. I have been in SCOAN for many years and I got no solution out of it, nor did my family or friends that I know. So that was a direct reason why I dropped all of these kind of interactions. And since I am not a billionaire with fat wads of dollars in my hand, these churches could care less what will happen to me and others. Their thought is, for you a thousand others.
true @ DOMI DG come out we want to join you where you worship n learn from u
@ Jesse,
Remember the Lord says:
“Then he said to me, “This is the Word of the LORD to Zerubbabel saying, ‘Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,’ says the LORD of hosts” – Zechariah 4:6.
You do not have to tackle everyone that you disagrees with or who disagrees with you – remember – the Lord is still in control and He convinces. We cannot convince anyone. It is not by our might, but through His powerful Holy Spirit.
You can calm down, it will be OK with the Lord. We are praying for you and we still love you.
@ Just Wonder,
At least you are listening to someone without excommunicating them or go into torture about a thought. Thanks for the prayers. RIght back at ya.
Sorry for changing the subject TBJW, but I cannot leave the subject just like this:
More in detail info on the Freemason hand signals:
Must try and shed some more light on this subject.
God’s Final Call
Battle for the Mind. Part 1 – Mark Woodman
@Just Wonder,
Proof of hand signs being anything is not quoting another echo chamber I’m sorry. For any crazed belief out there, you will find a bunch of radicalized purveyors of the same.
Battle of the Mind Part 2 – Mark Woodman
In the church –
That All May Be One / Total Onslaught – Walter Veith
From about 40:30
@Just Wonder,
You certainly have fallen for these SDA conspiracy theorists. It so happens that there is money to be made out of paranoia and these guys are good at exploiting that.
I can summarize their theories in a sentence;
‘…Catholicism is evil, there are demonic ETs,New World Order, Illuminati, Big pharma suppresses cures,they are poisoning us with GMOs,Chemtrails while controlling us through the media, Internet bla de bla….And in all this, only a handful of diligent and privileged experts have information and they gladly are sharing it with you so you may be informed….’
As they say, ‘you are what you eat’. Keep feeding on this garbage and you start thinking like them, seeing demons everywhere. Paranoia. The difference between you and them is they are making money while peddling it and you waste both time and money chasing them. I’d not be surprised that you have an extremely short list of ‘truth bearing’ churches out there that are yet to be affected by ‘Babylon’
OK Vooke,
I give up on you.
Will not put further proof down here, because you refuse to listen.
I am wasting my precious time on you.
You are just bent on arguing about things you do not want to open up to or even give it a thought.
Do you think that you know everything?
You are free to believe what you want and stick to your knowledge..
Maybe someone else will have more discernment than you and benefit from this.
I say again ,- I am NOT a SDA and do not agree with everything they believe, but I fully agree with them on their knowledge in exposing secret societies in the churches and governments. I am NOT promoting them, but am taking what is true and adding it to my knowledge.
Remain blessed.
@Just Wonder
I think what vooke and others are wondering is what evidence is there that TB Joshua is Illuminati except for some hand signs? I admit I haven’t watched the videos or read the links you’ve posted, but perhaps if they contain more information that bolsters your case you could summarise the points. It’s not that anyone necessarily disagrees with your conclusions, it’s just that we don’t think questionable hand signs are credible evidence. There is stacks of clear evidence against TB Joshua on other matters, so I don’t see the need to go down the Illuminati route with little to no evidence. If he 100% isn’t Illuminati, there’s still every reason to oppose him. If he 100% is Illuminati, it just adds another reason to the pile. In other words, it makes little difference.
@ TB Joshua Watch,
You should still consider what Just Wonder says. If you by definition what to scrutinize TB Joshua and his actions, you will have to look into that and don’t let Vooke divert you from that.
As Just Wonder has said he is a Chameleon. He blends into the environment. There was an article that appeared about TB Joshua in South Sudan and was discussing with their leader certain thing. The article suddenly disappeared after this article emerged.
http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/jan/26/south-sudan-should-be-hit-with-arms-embargo-over-atrocities-says-un-panel
Also I want you to look at which are the most corrupt countries in the world. Is it no wonder that Sudan and South Sudan are number 3 and 4.
Why is TB Joshua there ? How did he get out of the country again ? Is it not evidence of birds of feather ???
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/01/27/double-dealing-worlds-most-corrupt-countries/79391704/
@Jesse
If there was any evidence that TB Joshua was Illuminati we would follow it, but since none has been presented, we won’t waste our time. We see unsubstantiated rumours about TB Joshua all the time, just this week there has been this Juju guy quoted in the press who claims TB Joshua comes to him for power. We don’t publish things like that because they are just rumours and peddling rumours does not help our cause, nor is it a godly way of critiquing a ministry.
@Just Wonder,
You will not put ‘further evidence’ because I ‘refuse to listen’?
No, I’m listening as is @tbjoshuawatch adn@General, but LISTENING is not synonymous with AGREEING with you. What we are doing is weighing the ‘evidence’ you are addicting and the three of us are unanimous; the evidence is plain bogus.
If you have tons of evidence on TB Joshua-Illuminati connection, may I suggest the wisest thing is to rank it in the order of the most compelling and you share that first?
You do not impress nobody by pretending to be in possession of some damning ‘evidence’ which you withhold because we ‘refuse to listen’. This is just a half-clever means of disguising the fact that you got nothing on TB Joshua.
FYI,you are not the first person to mention the ‘hand signals’. So there really is nothing you are teaching that I haven’t heard of. Everytime I run into conspiracy believers like you, I walk them through the same logic; the frequency of the ‘hand signals’ among humanity, Mason’s and non-Masons make them an inconclusive proof of nothing. They only ‘add up’ if you have a priori bias of who is a Mason.
To answer your question; I don’t know everything not even a tithe of everything. But one thing you can’t take away from me is critical thinking and evaluation of claims. There is a maxim: ‘extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence’ so if you or any other are going to peddle crazy claims in a public forum, it is necessary you be ready to defend them. You don’t defend your claims by throwing tantrums, you do so by addicting concrete evidence.
You mention ‘discernment’. Not sure what you mean of this highly abused word but to me it means distinguishing right and wrong, light and darkness. It is a decision making process. You receive information, evaluate it and make conclusions. What you are peddling is inconclusive in and of itself. For this I request more information. Discernment is not mindless and blind agreement with a claim.
SDA? Nowhere have I claimed you are one. What I have said is SDAs have a proclivity for conspiracy theories seeing their eschatology as crafted by Ellen White is founded on a religio-politico conspiracy theory. This means we should weigh their claims with a pinch of salt. That’s my counsel and you are free to ignore it.
Finally.
If you take from them ‘what is true’ from SDA theorists, then it behoves you to walk us through this ‘truth’. What for instance makes these signs valid when just about everyone else agrees they are way too vague and common to help you pick out a Mason from a crowd?
Truth is objective. Truth should not fear inquiry. Only liars fear probing lest their lies be exposed.
As I say tbjw; “I do not have the time to go into everything in detail now. Maybe if you looked at the videos (discerningly) you will understand more of what I am trying to explain. I agree that there are more than enough evidence of who and what tbj is without this. Tbj is very, very subtle and if you cannot pick this up, well then I give up. Do not have time to carry on and on.
I also do not want to get into public arguments here, as it just plays into the hands of the enemy and I will not give him that satisfaction or ground for that”.
@ Just Wonder,
The people you are arguing with,, don’t have any evidence either that TB Joshua is not as you say. At least the last video makes sense. But someone already answered, “We will continue to watch Emmanuel TV no matter what”.
While we were there visiting in Lagos, we found crosses in Prayer Mountain with Jesus nailed on there. It was about half way down going up there, you can still see the trail from above with Google Earth. At some point they removed Jesus off from it, which I saw from pictures taken and posted online.
I think I remember they might have removed the cross as well but it is a while and my memory is not so good as it used to be. On one of the islands you see in prayer mountain a big statue Jesus praying on a sort of rock (probably resembling Jesus praying in Gethsemaneh) It’s the long haired Jesus for example. Also a Catholic introduction. You can put Vooke there and Vooke will start to reason it away with whatever thing Vooke can come up with because apparently Vooke has a large amount of English grammar to choose from by just intellect. This will make it sound very weighty and very learned but regarding personal experience of it all, it’s all theories too and has not practical application whatsoever.
You have to ask why Vooke is all of sudden fighting so hard about this all. What is Vookes agenda and program ? Vookes agenda is to bring forth “evidence” from a theoretical point of view and make it hard by throwing in as much at it, to make it “real” evidence in Vookes mind and then attack you of what you know and pass you off as ranting, conspiracy and classifying things from Vooke’s perspective Vookes favourite word nonsense. Deliberately ostracizing you, deflecting, dodging and twisting and misinterpreting what you actually have said. Then find in your posts something and copy and paste it and use reverse psychology to make you look stupid. Especially by using psychological key words again.
These are powerful diverting “words” using them by not only attacking you but to get you off the case of TB Joshua of which he was once a staunch defender off. It looks to me that still is not changed. Especially now TB Joshua is back in church. I have seen this before. They first are big defenders, then when TB Joshua hides, they hide too. They mimic everything what TB Joshua does and not do. They go out and fight you with it when TB Joshua comes out. The reply will be to you, oh you are talking nonsense, you are mentally unstable, you are a conspiracy theorist, you are this, that and the other.
Vooke does not bring anything to the table to prove to us what he really thinks of TB Joshua because it is always something that can go both ways. Vooke sits on the train of thought to sit upon the fence to direct the conversation Vooke sets out from the beginning to make a spectacle out of you and that gratifies Vookes ego big time of pronouncing and thinking to be the winner in putting out better posts than you do.
It’s a pity that whoever are involved in TB Joshua Watch are now choosing for Vooke rather then other people who have written here. Perhaps in their mind Vooke is more valuable “intellectually and mentally” than others which they have showed in expression to you and me.
@ Just Wonder,
Don’t give up. That is what Vooke wants you to do. That is how Intelligence agencies and Contra Intelligence agencies work. Contra intelligence is profiling as being your “friend” until a certain time, their strategy is to exhaust you from within in the hope you implode and just give up and go away. Then their OBJECTIVE is achieved. It’s a very powerful psychological and mental inducing procedure. They are trained for years for that and they have no scruples regarding their own consciousness in doing that to you. Their words are the extreme self righteous and use grammar to corner you. Their Modus Operandi is to immobilize you psychologically and mentally with their tactical discussion formats tried out in online discussions formerly used in MSN chat rooms, Yahoo Chat rooms and the like by flagging down and say that it is not true what you are saying and go contra and deliberately against of what you are saying or stating. I can’t go into details about this, but I can see that pattern an application is taking place here now. It’s to diffuse the situation to get people away and cover up other matters that are at hand and materializing. These are heavily trained individuals who have worked for some sort of agencies for many years. They might even be just retired and still want to participate in this to keep their life exciting. If you ask where I know this from. I speak sometimes to such kind of individuals and know how and what they do.
@Just Wonder,
Nobody is drawing you into arguments, all we ask is you SUBSTANTIATE your claims or withdraw them, or at the very least keep them to yourself.
When I first ran into this blog, I demanded proof from @tbjoshuawatch that TB Joshua was really into grand deception. They gladly adduced enough evidence that converted me from a believer to a staunch critic of the man. That’s the power of objectivity. Can you imagine I had started two threads on two separate forums over TB Joshua’s claim that he could help with the #MH370 location IF INVITED. I was busy praising this ‘prophet’ and the next moment I had to go back and retract them in all humility and publicly admit that I had fallen for his devious schemes.
Discernment is not some mystical process, it is founded on solid facts. What if this blog merely regurgitates the line that TB Joshua is a master of deception and when called upon to substantiate they tell us to go and ‘discern’?
The reason we keep on frequenting this blog you must admit is @tbjoshuawatch’s objectivity in backing their claims. It is also the reason none of the SCOANITES have ever convincingly disproved any of the claims made here.
Facts are tough as nails and stubborn as mules. All I ask for is facts, nothing personal against you or your beliefs, just a BASIS for your claims.
Stay blessed
All,
Permit me to digress a bit.
There is every reason to be wary of SDA conspiracy theorists’ wild claims. See SDA is a cult that believes that they are the ‘one true church’ and everyone else is under influence of Satan/ Babylon. To escape from Babylon, one must join and submit to Adventism. This cult validates itself by repeatedly drumming through its adherents heads that EVERY non-SDA is under demonic influence.
With this in mind, one can easily see why they never hesitate to label every other non-SDA faith as heretical and occultic. This is where Veith,Woodman, Phelps among others are coming from.
If you ALREADY believe every non-SDA to be under some demonic influence, the next step to validate this is to get ‘evidence’. And there is plenty of ‘evidence’ for such a biased mind. SDAs are adept at holding ‘prophecy seminars’ which are little else other than bash-fests of non-SDAs. These fests are where this ‘evidence’ is regurgitated ad nauseum.
It is quite interesting to note that SDA itself has some clearly Masonic roots. At the very least James White, Ellen White’s husband was a Mason
Watch this video and check out this link
http://www.formeradventist.com/discus/messages/11/6307.html
Please note that SDA Masonic roots are the least of my concerns in exposing them. Their doctrine come first.
Vooke,
I agree with you on the SDA’s masonic roots, as well as their present masonic leadership in the USA. I am not going into that. I said that I believe what they are saying about Masons (secret societies) and the pope. How Rome infiltrated the governments as well as the churches.
“we ask is you SUBSTANTIATE your claims or withdraw them, or at the very least keep them to yourself.”
if you listen to the dvd’s you will understand that I SUBSTANTIATE my view through that, because I do not have time to do it in any other way.
I will NOT withdraw my claims or keep it to myself.
If you cannot understand that, so be it.
@Just Wonder,
It is not that I cannot ‘understand it’, just that you are deliberately vague in your ‘evidence’ which is consistent with somebody who is unsure of their claims or is embarrassed of admitting they have nothing but hunch to work with.
Now,I have been seeing you on this blog for a while so I’m certain you are familiar with how @tbjoshuawatch approaches video evidence.
First, they will briefly mention their conclusions and then dare you to their BASIS by pinpointing the EXACT point of a video that indicates blasphemy or contradiction with TB Joshua claims. This saves users precious time and resources(data is expensive) in going through hours long blabber. Besides, it also removes room for confusion as the visitors may focus on different parts of a clip. To sweeten it, @tbjoshuawatch will offer short transcripts of the relevant sections to drive their point home. Is it too had to follow their highly reasonable and effective MO?
Your videos are over 100 minutes in total. What part of these clips contain ‘proof’ that TB Joshua is a Mason/Illuminati?
You know Vooke,
I have been pondering you and I think that Jesse’s observation of you are correct. You are deliberately ignorant of the facts that TB Joshua is a Freemason/Jesuit priest or you are either still an insider of scoan (pretending to be be against him). No one is as blind as the one that does not want to see. Specially scoanites.
You do not have to to listen to me, but you protecting tbj will go.
Ok, let me take time, for the last time and try and feed you the truth like a little baby. Spoon by spoon. Little by little. Picture by picture.
Why is it that you can clearly see that the SDA church have Masonic influences through long winded DVD’s, but the ones I have put here you are totally incapacitated to look at?
It needs to be broken up in pieces for you?
Why can you see, through other people DVD’s the truth about SDA, but not these ones on Freemasonry about scoan? It really makes me wonder about you? Are you still one of them?
These things about tbj, are not rumors, the truth is staring you in the face, hidden in open sight?
Why are you putting on a video here, where the guy says; “That him being a former SDA, he is not saying that all there teaching are wrong?” But according to you the ones on Freemasonry are wrong coming from them?
You are bending my focus from their teachings on Freemasonry and putting it on the organization.
What about other websites – not SDA – warning about the same things, Freemasonry/secret societies/Rome?
I will put it on and see if you can keep your focus on the topic at hand.
If not, then I am convinced that you are part of them.
Maybe more commenting here that you?
@Just Wonder,
I need not go through your over 100 minutes to connect SDAs to Masonry, I know about the connection elsewhere. Also, I know SDAs are addicted to conspiracy theories centering on Roman Catholicism/Papacy/Jesuits and so forth. So when I find a vigorous purveyor of these theories, I can guess they are SDAs.
That’s how I fingered Woodman, Veith and Phelps….and surprise surprise, I was correct.
Please note, I don’t mean to discredit these guys merely because they are SDAs, but am overly cautious of their claims given they are heavily biased against EVERYTHING outside Adventism.
For the record, you are not feeding nobody like a child here, you are just SUBSTANTIATING your own claims. That’s your duty not mine
It is actually the Holy Spirit that need to show you these things, but let me take the time and try and explain why I believe what I believe –
Let me try and show you how subtle these people are. How they are hiding the truth in open sight under your noses, by disguising it in lies.
TB Joshua’s connection to Rome are hidden very well. It was opened to me through Dr DGS Dinakaran who visited scoan. TB Joshua is a master trickster.
I was wondering; “Why would a big ‘man of god’ like dgs dinakaran visit a big ‘man of god’ for healing in scoan? He was drawing hundred of thousands of people to mega crusades in India and praying for their healings, but he himself must go to another preacher and that -one in Nigeria for healing? Taking in consideration that he is seeing Jesus face to face on a regular basis?
I smelled a rat, but could not put my finger on the rat, as I still believed, at that time, that both of them are ‘men of god’. TB Joshua as well as DGS Dinakaran.
Until the real reason opened up to me.
@Just Wonder,
Until today I had never heard of DGS. I did a quick Googling and found out that he was an Indian evangelist.
I also found something quite interesting;
(a) You have been sharing Woodman’s clips as far back as 2013 on this blog. Check yourself here;
https://tbjoshuawatch.wordpress.com/2013/05/20/4-dead-many-injured-at-scoan-ghana-this-anointed-water-nonsense-must-stop/#comment-8657
https://tbjoshuawatch.wordpress.com/2013/05/20/4-dead-many-injured-at-scoan-ghana-this-anointed-water-nonsense-must-stop/#comment-8658
(b) You have previously claimed that TB Joshua is connected to Roman Catholicism THROUGH DGS
https://tbjoshuawatch.wordpress.com/2013/05/20/4-dead-many-injured-at-scoan-ghana-this-anointed-water-nonsense-must-stop/#comment-8659
https://tbjoshuawatch.wordpress.com/2013/05/20/4-dead-many-injured-at-scoan-ghana-this-anointed-water-nonsense-must-stop/#comment-8660
(c) You have claimed that black suit,white shirt plus red tie are ‘Masonic suit’
https://tbjoshuawatch.wordpress.com/2013/06/11/7-traits-of-false-teachers/#comment-9475
(d) You have introduced another angle to the debate by introducing DGS’s son ‘Jesuit school’
https://tbjoshuawatch.wordpress.com/2013/05/20/4-dead-many-injured-at-scoan-ghana-this-anointed-water-nonsense-must-stop/#comment-8659
Let’s look at (b) closely. You are claiming that since DGS visited SCOAN and endorsed TB Joshua, and he is a Jesuit priest, TB Joshua MUST be a Jesuit as well.
But here is the problem with this theory; it assumes DGS himself was a Jesuit. What evidence do you have to prove that he was one? And secondly, even if he were a Jesuit, how does that make TB Joshua a Jesuit himself?
And let us look at (d). How does DGS’s son schooling through Layola Jesuit College make his father a Jesuit priest?
Your ‘evidence’ is as hollow as before my friend. It leads us nowhere, and for this it should be discarded with utter contempt
Hope this is short enough-
Proof of Dr DGS Dinakaran’s visit to scoan and his commentary on TB Joshua!:
jesus – talk ( tb joshua & dgs dinakaran)
I do not think that I will have time to feed you, all the info in detail, although I would want to.
You are going to have to connect the dots yourself.
In the July 2012 addition of the Jesus Calls Magazine of the Dinakarans – you can go and search that out for yourself – Paul Dinakaran – Dr DGS Dinakaran’s son went to visit Rome. The magazine came out to commemorate Paul’s 50th birthday. He studied, with his father’s blessings, at a Jesuit college in India. In the same magazine DGS Dinakaran was posed in a black suit, white shirt and red tie, under the title -Gifts of the Holy Spirit?
So the masqueraded message they sent into the world was that they are Freemasons-Jesuits! Paul studied at a Jesuit college, went to the Pope and his father posed in the same book in the Masonic suit.
A Jesuit posed very nicely in his Jesuit garment under the dress of Christianity, just like TB Joshua..
“And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light” – 2 Corinthians 11:14
Connecting the dots….. why did DGS Dinacaran, a Jesuit priest, visited tbj? If you know the 2 ministries, you will see that tbj’s ministry are very much copied from the Dinakarans. After this Jesuit’s visit to scoan, tbj came out posing with his black suit, white shirt and red tie. Remember he always wore Nigerian clothes in the beginning of his ministry.
My son was a disciple in scoan at that time, in line for this ‘anointing’ at scoan, being a disciple tbj had him posed in his Faith magazine with the Masonic hand signals. I prayed like mad for his deliverance out of scoan and God answered me. He is out, but tbj was furious and tried everything to brake up our relationship, craftily like a snake! The resistance was shocking to me. It was then that I started to wake up to the Jesuit rat in scoan.
Praise God, my son is out and also sees this now?
TB Joshua being a masonic priest, just being one hidden part of him.
If you take the religious garb away, you can see their colors clearly and how to connect the dots.
@Just Wonder,
What makes DGS a Jesuit Priest?
@Just Wonder,
I can’t possibly pretend to know how you feel for nearly losing your own son to SCOAN. I’d say you have every right to be angry at TB Joshua and his evil devious ways.
What we are saying is, can we please restrict our wrath and vitriol to verifiable facts?
So eventually, slowly, I started to see TB Joshua coming out with the Masonic hand signs, for his other Masonic brother around the word to understand his religious stand.
Again the truth is facing you, hidden in open site, just like the Masons work, or must I say Satan works to deceive.
@Just Wonder
Thanks for taking the time to go into more detail, but I’m afraid still this is very much in the realm of conjecture. You are assuming that TB Joshua is a mason based on him meeting once with someone else you assume is a mason, and him making some very common hand gestures and sometimes wearing a black suit, white shirt and red tie (common formal dress). This is the full extent of your tangible evidence. I sense that there are spiritual reasons you are convinced of his masonic connections, which is fine – but unless there is clear evidence on top of this, you won’t have much luck convincing others. It’s like SCOAN supporters who tell us we must be wrong about TB JOshua because the Holy Spirit revealed to them that TBJ is “from God”. Our position on TB Joshua is based partly on spiritual revelation about who he really is, but our critique of him always has to be based on clear and provable facts. In this case it would be things like evidence he’d been at masonic conventions, or donated money to masonic causes. At the end of the day, as I said before – there’s no need to go down the rabbit hole of Illuminati connections because there’s stacks of clear evidence that completely discredits him. Would your position on TBJ change if someone could 100% convince you that TBJ had absolutely no Illuminati association? I doubt it would. Nor would mine if someone could convince me the other way.
TBJW,
Thank you for your answer.
I have just been thinking- that for me to convince anyone here, would be like those girls sexually abused by TB Joshua, trying to convince anyone of what happened. How do you know that they are speaking the truth? There is no evidence.
I also asked them; “Why are you not coming out with that? I mean proof and all”. Their reply was; “That no one will believe them”. That is exactly how I feel. So with no more effort, I will not go further on this, but I am NOT changing my stand on the fact that TB Joshua is a Masonic/Jesuit priest as well.
If you did not walk a walk with them, or had children inline for the Jesuit ‘anointing’ -you will struggle to see and understand his deceptive deceit on this point.
Anyway it is the Holy Spirit that needs to convince.
@Just Wonder,
The reason victims of sexual abuse are hesitant to come out is because they are emotionally scarred and there may be no other witness to their abuse hence they are likely to be greeted with skepticism. Evidence of TB Joshua’s Masonic link on the other hand ought to be a highly objective exercise. So far, your hand signs and tenuous association vide DGS are not adding up.
For instance, why did DGS’ son visit Rome? Is it to tour, study or what?
Secondly, why did DGS visit SCOAN? I notice you have SUBTLY changed the narrative over the years. Now you are claiming he had visited there for prayers. You then loudly wonder why he needed prayers himself. See all you re doing is building a magnificent castle full of presumptions
Presumptions by @Just Wonder:
(a) DGS is a Jesuit Priest
(b) DGS visited SCOAN for healing/prayers
(c) TB Joshua is a Jesuit Priest because he was endorsed by DGS
@Just Wonder,
You are now blaming Holy Spirit for either not revealing it to us or for your conclusion. This is disingenuous of you because you are simply running away from taking responsibility for your claims. If you dreamt about the Masonic connection just say so like @Sas and we will let you be. But the moment you peddle such shoddy and lame evidence for your claims, trust us to call you out
Edit
How does being prayed for by TB Joshua change anything anyway?
@Just Wonder
Your comparison to the girls sexually abused by TB Joshua doesn’t really work. These are girls who are testifying that they personally were sexually abused by him. If you hear one account like that, most reasonable people would take it seriously. When you hear several very similar accounts from separate people it makes the probability of it being true almost certain.
An equivalent would be you testifying that you had personally witnessed TB Joshua attending meetings at a masonic lodge. If you said that, I’d believe you. If other people said the same thing in confirmation I would take it even more seriously.
The sexual abuse claims we know first hand. The evidence for TBJ being a masonic priest is based on vague observations and guilt by association (with someone that isn’t confirmed to be a mason anyway).
I do understand how personal all this is to you, and I sympathise greatly. However, let me ask you this: If you could be 100% convinced TBJ was not a masonic priest, would it make you less concerned about what your family member was being subjected to? Whatever goes on at SCOAN, whether masonic/occultic/fake or staged, it’s dangerous and evil. But there are plenty of ways of proving this without resorting to what most would consider conspiracy theories.
@tbjoshuawatch,
Here is another past claim by @Just Wonder
‘…..TB Joshua is just an underground Jesuit priest in the dress of Christianity.
His connection to them is via late Dr DGS Dinakaran and his son Paul to the Jesuit orders of Rome….’
https://tbjoshuawatch.wordpress.com/2014/09/23/victims-of-the-scoan-building-collapse/#comment-17742
The claim went unquestion and I’m now asking @Just Wonder to SUBSTANTIATE
What makes DGS or his son Jesuits?
Did you hear it from somebody else or did you just make it up?
More of @Just Wonder Jesuit claims;
‘….Check out how close tbj’s teachings are to the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), coming from the Roman Catholic Church!
TB Joshua is their African connection or is it African Jesuit priest connection?…..’
https://tbjoshuawatch.wordpress.com/2013/05/22/breaking-news-tb-joshua-admits-his-anointed-water-is-pointless/#comment-9069
‘….TB Joshua is a muslim, false bantu prophet in a jesuit dress…’
https://tbjoshuawatch.wordpress.com/2013/07/16/tortured-at-scoan-nosa-osaghaes-story/#comment-10190
‘…..I say again that tbj is a false muslim bantu prophet in a roman catholic jesuit suit!!!!!!!!….’
https://tbjoshuawatch.wordpress.com/2013/08/13/the-latest-tb-joshua-indulgence/#comment-10770
One would expect that some solid proof behind such CONSISTENT claims at the very least
@ Vooke,
Here is the latest prophecy of Paul Dhinakaran.
All what he says can be done by looking at the news and the progress of the world stage. This is not prophecy. This is just putting out some statements and some will happen and others just not. It certainly was not the Holy Spirit speaking there.
I am sure he will claim that the Zika virus is the one that has entered the world stage now as new disease as his fulfillment of his false prophecy. While this virus was already known since 1947.
The Zika virus is a mosquito-transmitted infection related to dengue, yellow fever and West Nile virus. Although it was discovered in the Zika forest in Uganda in 1947 and is common in Africa and Asia, it did not begin spreading widely in the Western Hemisphere until last May, when an outbreak occurred in Brazil.
If he is not into this Freemasonry, or New World Order then I don’t know what he is then ? Because it as the very people that do these things and bring it to the world stage. The only thing they need is to deceive the Christian world with these fast mouth prophets. We don’t need such prophecies, we need solutions to the problem and it is not given here by Paul Dhinakaran. So another useless prophecy just like the one’s of TB Joshua. Because we all knew from way back that Africa is always in need of food and that they need to do more Agriculture. It’s the obvious thing that the illiterate and the unlearned glory into.
People who met TB Joshua know exactly who he is. They do not need anyone ( specially “TB Joshua watch clan”) to teach them about. The first ones have no problem with TBJ. Problem has second ones – “TB Joshua watch clan” with an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about TBJ. For “TB Joshua watch clan” it is like breathing, They con not live without it. They like controversies and disputes. Every comments is like food for them, provide fuel for their rumours and hatred. “TB Joshua clan” is like a stray dog’s sniffing around everywhere to see reds under the bed. For five years they think, speak, shout every minute they may about. It is like obsessions they can not free themslef and their mind and soul. Their filthy mission, obsession and self assigment is like the rottenness of the bones. They have to make TB Joshua a victim, They can not live without it and without speaking about him. Hatred is their anointing. They speak only bad things. Pure, clean words uncontaminated, unpolluted, spotless words without judgments and condemnation can not go out from their mouth.
Keep trolling @SimpleVoice,
Scale will fall off your eyes
@ Simplevoice,
So you are saying that with this statement as I am doing now:
Did TB Joshua get the mandate to allow to build an illegal hostel and other buildings and those without building permit ?
If God knew that this would go into disaster and many would die, would He then give the commandment to TB Joshua and Staff ? Then the next level is: They invited the, architects, then the building engineers, then they invited the bricklayers and the tilers and interior designers and the painters. In the mean time is going on and they start doing what they are doing and nearly finish off their works. ILLEGALLY because that is the SUBSTANTIATE part of my Pointing out.
Here is then the question. How can you claim you are a prophet of God and talk to God face to face or even as TBJ says “peeping and spying upon God” not know that doing ILLEGAL things is WRONG ! Very wrong. And how can then a prophet keep his consciousness quiet about this ? As if he did not know, or his staff did not know. They did. They went on to proceed, signed the dotted lines and the paper work, or they did just a “masonic” handshake on it and started the buildings. For 11 years they proceeded. Nobody said anything. In all the prayers they did for all those years nobody heard any revelation about that it was wrong to do what they did. How strange. From the those that claim this is a “special ministry” but only hears so called “prophecies” when it suits them by inside information from spies and workers inside government buildings, because I KNOW THIS IS TRUE because some of them confessed this to me personally. Using this as an opportunity to create “miracles” while they were just man made. I have known the African church for a long time and have seen quite a few inside and on the outside of them and know this is what they will do to pretend there are “real miracles” taking place while they are fabricated. They now have started to subsidize students to give them a study who will go out into the field and will report back to Headoffice SCOAN.
No matter what they are telling you, this is how the African churches are operating. I simply know because I have been an insider and always looked at thing what they discussed on what to do in their private meetings. However when it came to SCOAN, I was only invited to the prayer and church meetings but not on the individual meetings of what they were doing there. No matter what you tried, it only stayed within the assigned families and children. I see now why they did that.
These are my personal facts and that of my family members and of friends that I know of as well some organisations who infiltrated into the higher levels and found out what really was going on. Many things are dealt via Court cases and settled outside Court. Because they will make sure they use it a hush up monies for those that were victims. This same you see happening in SCOAN, they Internet is full of it and Youtube too of the most outrageous claims they can do to make sure that their false prophet will stay at the helm.
It is not God that keeps them in the saddle it is their own crafty access to the system of the world that offers them plenty opportunity to milk out and take advantage of with a religious nuance on it.
You have to ask yourself why they are fighting so hard against all odds with earthly if they say we rely upon God but in the mean time they use loads of things out of the world to defend themselves.
They mobilized everyone, while a biblical story such as with Gideon tells us where truly the power of God comes from it teaches us the following:
That Israel’s small army is too big for God to use.
(1-3) God tells Gideon to tell all his soldiers who are afraid to go home.
Then Jerubbaal (that is, Gideon) and all the people who were with him rose early and encamped beside the well of Harod, so that the camp of the Midianites was on the north side of them by the hill of Moreh in the valley. And the Lord said to Gideon, “The people who are with you are too many for Me to give the Midianites into their hands, lest Israel claim glory for itself against Me, saying, ‘My own hand has saved me.’ “Now therefore, proclaim in the hearing of the people, saying, ‘Whoever is fearful and afraid, let him turn and depart at once from Mount Gilead.’ ” And twenty-two thousand of the people returned, and ten thousand remained.
a. The people who are with you are too many for Me: This was a great test of Gideon’s faith. His army of 32,000 men was already overmatched by 135,000 Midianites. Yet God thought his army was too big, and He commanded Gideon to invite all who were afraid to go home. He was left with only 10,000 men.
i. Gideon was probably surprised at the number of men who were afraid to fight, and hoped that only a few hundred would leave. But we are told that they assembled in a place where they could see the 135,000 Midianite troops (Judges 7:8). The sight of a huge opposing army made many Israelite soldiers afraid.
b. Lest Israel claim glory for itself against Me, saying “My own hand has saved me”: This explains why the army of 32,000 was too large. Israel could still take credit for a victory if they had 32,000 troops. They could believe they were underdogs who triumphed through their own great bravery or strategy. God wanted the odds so bad that the victory would clearly be His alone.
i. If we really believe the principle, Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit, says the Lord of hosts (Zechariah 4:6), then our smallness does not matter. If we really believe the principle, Some trust in chariots, and some in horses; but we will remember the name of the Lord our God (Psalm 20:7), then smallness does not matter.
The crux of the story is then the following:
2. (4-8) Gideon must separate the men according to a particular test.
But the Lord said to Gideon, “The people are still too many; bring them down to the water, and I will test them for you there. Then it will be, that of whom I say to you, ‘This one shall go with you,’ the same shall go with you; and of whomever I say to you, ‘This one shall not go with you,’ the same shall not go.” So he brought the people down to the water. And the Lord said to Gideon, “Everyone who laps from the water with his tongue, as a dog laps, you shall set apart by himself; likewise everyone who gets down on his knees to drink.” And the number of those who lapped, putting their hand to their mouth, was three hundred men; but all the rest of the people got down on their knees to drink water. Then the Lord said to Gideon, “By the three hundred men who lapped I will save you, and deliver the Midianites into your hand. Let all the other people go, every man to his place.” So the people took provisions and their trumpets in their hands. And he sent away all the rest of Israel, every man to his tent, and retained those three hundred men. Now the camp of Midian was below him in the valley.
But SCOAN is only trying to add numbers and imposing themselves on the world scene with the more they think it will be successful in diverting the sword from us. But God shows exactly what it was with Gideon the opposite was true.
That is why SCOAN is a false lying church and needs to be closed forever with their destructive behaviours and put to shame of murdering 116 people illegally with their antics. If there is anyone mean, it is them and their followers who have no shame in their heads. Take responsibility for your actions as many people show in the world scene do today. Accept you were WRONG !
You “TB Joshua watch clan” think that you serv God, but you do not hold your tongue and you deceive your heart, your service is worthless. You can’t control your tongue, you are fooling yourself. Your mouth speaks what your heart is full of. Your talk becomes a rod that beats you, your words full of judgments and condemnations can not keep you safe. Your word of judgment and condemnation “TB Joshua watch clan” lie in ambush for wrong. You only think that you picked up the right key, but you are locking yourself in your words judgments and condemnations slavery day by day with your hard-heartedness.
@SimpleVoice,
Keep trolling and scales will fall off your eyes
The conception of ths blog „TB Joshua watch” is based on troliing. Trolling, judging, condemnation „one man” from Nigeria. It has aways condemnatory disquisition and deduction and nothing else. People who write here against your deads you accuse of trolling.Your languaggeof judging and condemntaion is alway the same, dressed only in fine words but betrays your low ideal. You are geting dirty in you conclusions day by day. Here in this blog nothing builds. Nothing inspirings, uplifting only condemnation and judgments.
@SimpleVoice,
And yet you are still trolling the blog.
And shall we presume that you are. OT judgemental yourself?
Funny guy. Keep on at it and scales will fall of your eyes
@SimpleVoice
Why are you being so judgmental?
You know, the reason why I quizzed @Just Wonder about Kent Hovind’s hand gestures, is that I know some of the SDA folks have some level of respect for him. I remember an article by an SDA folk I read a few years ago, basically one of the points he was making was that Hovind is a talented, brilliant teacher who, of course, just needs to be ‘brought home’. Basically in their eyes he lacks one thing – conformance to the doctrines of the “true church” [SDA]. Hovind even says in one of his videos that some SDA’s have tried to convert him; he said they gave him a lot of Ellen White’s writings.
My point is this: I doubt they would accuse him of being a Freemason despite his heavy use of some of these hand gestures. Now if you were to compare him with TB Joshua; Hovind at some point we are told he spoke 800+ times a year in his campaign in schools, debates, churches & his radio program. So one can see that his use of some of these gestures is far more excessive than TB Joshua’s. If we were to consider these gestures, then Hovind is much more a Freemason than TB Joshua. Of course if you are familiar with Hovind’s message you would know that this is absurd. This just shows that these hand gestures are a poor indicator to use as ‘proof’ of someone’s involvement in Freemasonry.
So @Just Wonder if you want to make your case believable & water-tight, dig deeper & be diligent as a soldier of Christ. Don’t think of it as “feed you the truth like a little baby” or “connect the dots yourself“. This is a wrong approach to a topic as sensitive as this, which requires clear comprehensive details given the scale of the deception. My advice be diligent in searching for facts, by this you will be doing your part of gathering with Christ [Matthew 12:30].
@ General,
There is no such thing as water tight. There will always be something that will start leaking at some point in time.
Regarding Freemasonry, I know first hand about this, I am telling you it is much more closer to home to me than you will ever know. There are even also SCOAN staff that has or had family in the Freemasonry so if it comes to that, there is proof concerning that. You only have to know if I would just point out to somebody for that. And regarding the secrecy that I have always said inside SCOAN could totally point out to Freemasonry as such. You can’t just barge into Freemasonry unless you have done some serious renouncing of your own life concerning that. Because in the end of it all, they all are and will say allegiance to Baphomet (which is literally Satan) at some point in their allegiance to Freemasonry. And if TB Joshua is not a Mason then surely he has something with Catholicism as well Muslims. If you only look at the prayer wristband for that. It’s kind a obvious. Not sure you will go into denial about that.
Isaiah 3:16-18 Moreover, the LORD said, “Because the daughters of Zion are proud And walk with heads held high and seductive eyes, And go along with mincing steps And tinkle the bangles on their feet, 17 Therefore the Lord will afflict the scalp of the daughters of Zion with scabs, And the LORD will make their foreheads bare.” In that day the Lord will take away the beauty of their anklets, headbands, crescent ornaments, dangling earrings, BRACELETS, veils, headdresses, ankle chains, sashes, perfume boxes, amulets,
finger rings, nose rings, festal robes, outer tunics, cloaks, money purses, hand mirrors, undergarments, turbans and veils.
You will see all major celebrities walking around with the above mentioned jewelry. Beyoncé, Rita Ora, Paris Hilton, Ozzy Ozborne, Rihanna, Brad Pitt,
@jesse
TB Joshua is a mixture of all sorts, with elements of Pentecostal Christianity, Islam, occult, Catholic, maybe even freemasonry. As you’ve said before, he’s a chameleon. I completely agree with that. But just because there are elements of Islamic practice, and he’s sympathetic to Muslims, doesn’t make him one. Same with his Catholic influences. I think it’s really important that we take our critique as far as the evidence leads and no further. Otherwise we very easily become purveyors of gossip, and I don’t believe that’s what God would want.
@General,
Some evolutionists faced with bleak impossibility of complex life starting by chance resort to ‘seed’ theory which really claims that life was seeded by aliens in the distant past and that evolution took over from there. But this merely pushes away the hard question into the space an untestable, unprovable realm.
@Just Wonder has no proof that TB Joshua is a Mason/Jesuit despite repeatedly claiming so. What better than to send us on a wild goose chase to another man, DGS and from DGS to his son!
I must emphasize we are not denying TB Joshua being a Jesuit or Mason, we simply lack proof to make such a claim and so we wisely refrain from unsubstantiated claims. And I must remind us again that for a sect that strongly believes everybody else is under demonic influence, the next logical step is to accuse the leaders of being satanists, Satan being the arch-enemy of the cross.
There is a simple test I do flush out cultists;
(a) Find anybody claiming that just about EVERY leader of Pentecostalism, Catholicism,Reformed Theology/Protestantism is Illuminati
(b) Take them to give you a single living example of a non-Illuminati Christian leader
(c) Examine the doctrine or theology of the example given in (b)
99.99% chance is that the leader they give you is from a cult…their cult.
PS
It’s interesting that SDAs sought to convert Hovind. I can bet it has to do with their common ground of young earth creationism which swept Adventism in the 70s. ‘The enemy of my enemy is my friend’ as they say.
@ All,
How much evidence does one need ? In Court and the Judicial system they milk out every detail and keep beating around the bush to reach a verdict. It can’t be that hard is it now ? To me Involuntary Manslaughter and Manslaughter by gross negligence is quite straight forward and does not need to be diverted like this month after month after month.
If the defendant’s negligence was gross, should then there not be a verdict, that is, when it is showed such a disregard for the life and safety of others as to amount to a crime and not deserve a punishment then by Law ?
And here is the “great TB Joshua” that together with the best lawyers in Nigeria and over the world is fighting and doing their utmost best to divert the course of Justice and keep him being free and those that were involved into this scandal. They should all be ashamed of their resistance and culpability and accept they were negligent and wrong into their actions for us all to see.
What glory is coming out for God in this ? Glory to be self vindicated ? To get away with murder ? To get away with scandalous actions and resistance ?
Romans 3:18 “THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES.” 19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
Do not say he has not sinned,or those that were involved in doing what they did, because they are, if only that they embarked on doing things ILLEGALLY and so have given free hand to the enemy to destroy and killed many a life in this case.
ILLEGAL = contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law.
CRIMINAL LAW = Criminal law or penal law is the body of law that relates to crime. It regulates social conduct and proscribes whatever is threatening, HARMFUL, or otherwise endangering to the property, health, safety, and moral WELFARE of people. It includes the PUNISHMENT of people who violate these laws.
SCOAN violated those LAWS. What is a Court supposed to do then ? Murder people first and then doing good to get away with the crimes ?
“TB Joshua watch clan”
Do not worry I will not exceed the boundary to splash condemnations of TB Joshua around – as you have done for 5 years and more.
It is written : Whoever corrects a mocker invites insults; whoever rebukes the wicked incurs abuse and you gave me proof of it.
I stop here where I am, but you are still going beyond and beyond without measure to write your filthy condemnation procedure.
Do you always call everybody by the same name you deserve and worked out?
@ SimpleVoice,
I just watched a small video where they were interrogating guru’s and “holy men and women” regarding another 2holy man” that was caught into several scandals and was brought forward in the news on TV. They put these holy men and women on a stage and asked them the following question……
Are you above the Law ? One by one said no, they all agreed that they would not be above the Law and should be scrutinized by the Law.
These were not even Christian holy men and women but from all kinds of different religions and all admitted that the Law would apply to them.
Just answer me the question ? Is TB Joshua and his staff, the building engineers, architects above the Law ? Should they not be scrutinized by the Law when there are deeds to be interrogated and examined on the matters at hand ? Also should they receive the full penalty of the Law as any other person under the same Law ?
@Simpleton,
I’m surprised you can quote the proverb and miss the irony. All we get for pointing out deception in SCOAN is mockery from trolls like you. But hang around and scales will fall off your eyes in Jesus name
@Voke
Find in the Bible and learn something in Proverbs:
Mocker does not respond to rebukes.
Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you,
Mockers resent correction, so they avoid the wise.
How long will mockers delight in mockery and fools hate knowledge?
(The Lord) – Surely he scorns the scorners: but he gives grace to the lowly.
Do not you think that you need correction in your calling Troll for everyone who do not agree with your filthy condemnation language. Irony is that you use the name of the Lord at the end using it.
@Simpleton,
Brainwashed SCOANITES are what this blog is all about. They wash up these shores full of vitriol and curses and pompous threats, but somewhat they keep on coming for some more.
Take my counsel, go through as many posts as you can and scales will fall off your eyes. For once you will abandon those silly amulets they sell you at SCOAN and you will turn from worthless idols and serve the Living God.
Vooke,
Too much pressupositions about me and SCOAN.
You judge your succsses by TB Joshua condemnation. The more you condemn him, the more you feel succeed and satisfaction you feel. You judge yoursel but what you gave up, and you gave up your clean
conscience in order to condemn TB Joshua and you got it.
Condemnation became your life blog mission and it is dengerous more for you,, then for your SCOAN victims.
@Simpleton,
You are the one full of presumption about @tbjoshuawatch.
Can you try and summarize your rants in point form and hope am idle enough to give them a response?
All,
I’ve just watched a shocking documentary on NetFlix, Going Clear: Scientology And the Prison of Belief.
http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/jun/25/going-clear-scientology-and-the-prison-of-belief-review-horribly-compelling-study-of-a-creepy-organisation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Going_Clear_(film)
As is obvious, the subject is this cult of John Travolta and Tom Cruise. Former members share their experiences, how they got in,how it was like, how they left and how the organization has relentlessly bullied them. One member was surveilled for a good 5 years.
Never underestimate the power of brainwashing and indoctrination
PLAISE JESSE. VOOKE. JUST WONDER STOP THAT DISCUTION CONSENTRET ON YOUR MISSION
Hey Vanda….
You must be in orchids. Hmmpffff hihihihiiii, no ?
@VANDA,
posting in upper case is bad netiquette. Please stop it.
Here are my point(s);
(a). TB Joshua has not to the best of my knowledge claimed to be a Mason or Illuminati, and I’m yet to come across anything linking him to these secretive fraternal organizations.
(b) All who claim that TB Joshua is a mason or illuminati owe us proof for their claims
(b) Repeated unsubstantiated claims rob not just the purveyor but this very blog of its credibility and should therefore be ignored with utter contempt
(c) Those making unsubstantiated claims especially of adverse kind is known as talebearers or gossips, and this is strongly censured in the scriptures. This means it is totally unChristian to engage in tale bearing.
Leviticus 19:16 (KJV)
Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the Lord.
Proverbs 18:8 (KJV)
The words of a talebearer are as wounds,
and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly.
More on the last point. When I first stumbled onto this blog, I thought @tbjoshuawatch was a talebearer full of hot air and envy over a man of God. I thought they were a satanic ploy to tarnish TB Joshua. I demanded proof for their claims and they surprised me with how much they had. This is what won me over. This is what wins SCOANITES straying here for whatever reasons.
Once again, let us suspect all we can but desist from passing out suspicions as facts. This is talebearing and is quite damaging.
Selah!
Apparently according to TB Joshua, Boko Haram is a thing of the past. His “anoiting water” is not working clearly. Nor do his prayers as the one’s from his church followers.
We all have to remember when he said, IF I am not a man of God, the Chibok girls will be released immediately. Well clearly not. And Boko Haram will be a thing of the past by the end of 2013.
Well let’s put that to the test shall we ? On January 31 it was reported that Boko Haram is still alive and kicking and that TB Joshua was wrong and spoke a false prophecy about Boko Haram. He did not see ANYTHING at all. He was just hoping that GEJ would have eradicated Boko Haram by the end of 2013. But we all know already that he is a false private prophet and that only his followers keep running after him in his cult. Let me put evidence out here for all to see:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/boko-haram-burns-kids-alive-northeast-nigeria-witness-113440486.html
So then let’s move on to the next thing where we have to leave it up to God.
the #MH370
So here was the so called prophet telling us about his personal prophecy to everyone that by the end of 15th of March 2015.
We would see a wing and debris and the MH370 would be found and we no longer would talk about it anymore.
I mean how long is this now ? Nearly 2 years ?
Ok let’s look what the news is telling us as facts. Because after all it is about facts right ?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3422628/Second-piece-metal-debris-believed-missing-MH370-washes-time-near-Malaysian-village-low-flying-jet-seen-day-vanished.html
Apparently all the debris that is found so far has nothing to do with the MH370. Except the flaperon but it has never been public how they have been able to connect the flaperon with the MH370. They wanted us to believe that the inside serial numbers was proving this was from the MH370. Nothing to that effect has been put out as evidence or proof, we all had to accept it as the experts were telling us. It took months before they came to the “conclusion”. So they were keeping this away from us for that long ? It seems to me that if you wanted to look inside the flaperon which they obviously did not do for months. Eh, Eh. That all of a sudden under pressure they released this information as proof. Why can’t we see anything in the form of evidence about it ?
Secondly they found another piece of debris a few days ago but it was proven that it had nothing to do with the MH370.
But here is a prophet that tells us that it will be found by the end of 15th of March 2014. Nothing has been found to that effect. So we can safely say it was a false prophecy anyways.
Here is the latest evidence of the #MH370
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3422628/Second-piece-metal-debris-believed-missing-MH370-washes-time-near-Malaysian-village-low-flying-jet-seen-day-vanished.html
Actually it was not 15th March of 2015 but by the end of 15th March 2014. Typo. It must have been a fat finger that pressed the wrong key.
Anyways let’s move on to another leave it up to God issue:
The #Chibokgirls
On the night of 14–15 April 2014, 276 female students were kidnapped from the Government Secondary School in the town of Chibok in Borno State, Nigeria.
And so the prophet was claiming IF he was not a man of God, these girls should have been released immediately.
And have they ? Well, the truth is, they have not. So we again can safely say, it was a false prophecy after all.
Let us look at the reality and the fantasy the TB Joshua followers are still into shall we:
According to this article it clearly points out they are still not found or liberated.
http://www.vanguardngr.com/2016/01/air-force-intensifies-search-for-chibok-girls-others-in-sambisa-forest/
So we see another evidence of false prophecy and the fantasy of a false private prophet that only throws out so called “inside knowledge” from God but has nothing to say when it is not packing out as he tries to convince us.
Again we see the truth coming out that when the Word of God says:
Jeremiah 5:30 “An appalling and horrible thing Has happened in the land: 31 The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests rule on their own authority; And My people love it so! But what will you do at the end of it?
Why is nobody addressing this to him personally and ask him by the fact that he was wrong. Dead wrong about it all, but it is quickly shuffled under the carpet in the hope we all will forget this and that we have to leave it up to God. No problem leaving it up to God, but hey, why is someone profiling as The Prophet and it is not as he says it is. Why can someone still maintain a credible position in a church that accepts such a deception ? We only hope and pray that one day somebody has the courage to address these burning issues of a man that is taking many a ride and tells you that it is all for promotion and to better yourself in the eyes of the world but definitely not in the Eyes of God.
Indeed as we reading in our Bibles we know that:
Deuteronomy 18:21 “You may say in your heart, ‘How will we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?’ 22 “When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
When will be the day someone stands up and makes this clear as day in front of him and asks him to repent of his deceiving ways and fantasies ?