Who is TB Joshua?
TB Joshua
TB Joshua is a controversial Nigerian pastor and prophet. He has a huge following within Nigeria, and a fast growing one internationally (mainly through his satellite TV channel Emmanuel TV). Below we have summarised some of the most concerning issues about him.
1. Numerous allegations of sexual abuse
2. Dubious claims of divine healing
Anointing Water
Besides the deaths reported in a piece recently broadcast on the BBC, the authors of this site are aware of 4 other deaths under similar circumstances (not AIDS, but where they were told to stop medication and subsequently died). In 2005, after a large crusade at Botswanan National stadium, President Festus Mogae released a statement urging patients who had visited TB Joshua for healing, including those on the antiretroviral (ARV) therapy, to continue taking their medication. The fact the president had to take this unusual step lends enormous credence to this BBC story.
We recently told the story of Judith, a lady suffering from diabetes who was told by TB Joshua that she was healed, and to stop taking her medication. 2 days later she was in a coma. The comments on the story from SCOAN supporters were revealing. Rather than denying the truthfulness of her story they scolded her for the lack of faith that got her into this almost deadly predicament.
Sky News have conducted an undercover report which confirms the suspicions the BBC article raised, yes SCOAN does tell AIDS victims to quit their medication.
3. Cult like behaviour
4. Blackmail and video confessions
5. $10-$15 million of personal wealth
6. Children at his church sing songs of worship about him
The Synagogue Church is a training ground,
where the holy spirit is flowing
through his anointed servant TB Joshua
The Man of GodEverything about it is part of our lives
Everything about him is good
7. His words are considered infallible
8. He uses tragic events for self promotion
- The London Riots
- Steve Jobs’ death
- Michael Jackson’s death
- Nigeria losing to Guinea
- The Icelandic ash cloud
- Brittany Murphy’s death
- The Polish plane crash in Russia
- The Japan earthquake
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TB Joshua Watch 
Why do you hate TB Joshua? Your accusations are baseless please dont
post me this staff again, I dont believe your lies, ok.
I have witnessed first hand the destruction that this “ministry” has wrought in the lives of those close to me and in people I have known both in the UK and abroad. There is a glossy, but false exterior which at first, looks like a genuine and very exciting Christian ministry. I fell for it myself for a time. It is very powerful and very deceptive.There are countless accusations both against TB Joshua and against SCOAN itself and there are countless witnesses (both in the UK and worldwide) but they have been and continue to be, intimidated, slandered and even blackmailed as we have even seen here on TBJoshua Watch. The evidence is there for anyone who wants to know the truth. For those involved, it will take enormous courage to face that truth.
Lilian, no one has ever said they hate TB Joshua. I do not hate him. I think he is very different to what he portrays himself as, but I do not hate him, or any of his followers. Once upon a time, I was no different. I know others have been intimidated by Beware of Blasphemer Videos, but I have nothing to hide. I am a sinner, and I have trusted Jesus Christ with aquitting me of everything I have ever done. So I dont mind if I appear on Beware of Blasphemers too (though I’m going to have to provide them with material though!)
People can hate me for saying such things about TB Joshua all they want, but I do not want other Christians to go down that route. He is not what he seems.
I will write separately a more complete response to this post, but for the benefit of those accidentally stumbling on this site in attempt to find out about TB Joshua and The SCOAN, I will briefly respond now to provide some clarification/ correction to the claims in the above post. I will reply to the points raised in the order they were raised in:
1. 1. SCOAN London – Contrary to what the above post ‘authoritatively’ states, the SCOAN branch in London is not run by a single family whatsoever but by a team of evangelists who have been sent by Prophet T.B. Joshua of The SCOAN in Lagos. You can verify this by calling and speaking to them directly or by visiting the church. You will quickly find out that they are not all from the same family. Within the last year, the church in London has more than quadrupled in size and is increasingly attracting international visitors. This is mainly due to the fact that clips from the branch are being shown on Emmanuel TV, the satellite tv station owned by The SCOAN and broadcast worldwide on satellite and via the internet. Clips from The SCOAN London services can be found here (http://www.youtube.com/user/scoanuk).
2. Allegations – None of the allegations have been proven or verified but are given by a very few isolated individuals who were disciples under TB Joshua but decided to leave. They state that the abuse took place years earlier but they just decided to mention it when they finally left the ministry. Currently there are more than 100 disciples/ workers (both male and female) living in The SCOAN community in Lagos with TB Joshua, carrying out the many tasks involved in running a ministry of that size and also being trained under him as evangelists. These evangelists originate from many nations, European, Asian, American and African. Many of the evangelists have been part of the ministry for years. If such foul practise was truly going on, there would have been an outcry about this a long time ago and Tb Joshua would have been exposed and brought to justice. Also the ministry would have diminished by now, yet it is waxing stronger after more than 20 years.
i cant prove to the world that tb joshua hit a woman in the face in a room full of ppl, but i know it happened. ask the brother in the mentioned family. he was standing next to me.
but you are right, by my count i only know four women who left, all saying the same thing. nothing proven though. i guess they just woke up one morning and decided to create
some drama.
you are wrong to assum such things would have been found out about. there is so much secrecy. i was there a year and have. learnt
Can you write Giles for what she was hit ?
Is there any reason that would make it acceptable behaviour that a person in a position of authority acts violently? I don’t think so.
Thanks Madelaine for your respond.
Giles, How you can proof this act? TBJ is a human being. Was she African girl?
In Africa teachers use twigs. Look at the film about TBJ song.
Twigs in hand of children teachers is rather common practice in Africa that is not accepteable in Europe and for Caucasians.
What if she did something what caused TBJ to loose his balance?
@ Madelaine and others
Ok, how can you explain about Jesus making a whip of cords and driving people violently out of the temple – John 2:13-17
or Elisha when he was made at those boys for calling him bald – 2 kings 2:23-24 – Everyone knows that Elisha was a true prophet of God, and yet…
also, you don’t know the context of this action – the Bible says, ‘Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish them with the rod, they will not die.’ (Proverbs 23:13) Also check Proverbs 22:15 and Proverbs 13:24.
As I mentioned above, many evangelists are living in the scoan and TB Joshua sees them and takes care for them as his own children – I think you would agree that every single person has some bad characters/ behaviours that need to be corrected – that is why we have people who we look up to, spiritual leaders, advisers, mentors, our pastors, as well as the Bible to guide us. I don’t know about you, but I would much rather tough discipline and harsh rebuke when I do something stupid than a sympathetic pat on the back…. when i misbehaved as a child, my parents physically disciplined me and that shook me out of my stupidity/ naughtiness much quicker than a soothing word would have done.
also, visser is right about the culture. in africa, capital punishment is still very much part of every day life. parents regularly beat their children to discipline them, also neighbours and other members in the community have the right to discipline someone elses child if they see them misbehaving. Stubborn children are cained/ whipped in schools…. you have to look at everything in context.
@ Giles, you keep on judging TB Joshua by one or two individual isolated events that you remember
about the secrecy i would disagree, tb joshua is very open about the things happening in the ministry – that is why there are regular meetings held for the workers where issues are discussed – when you just join as a disciple, you start attending these meetings – things are openly discussed there – anyone can raise a point or a suggestion for everyone to discuss
TB Joshua is also incredibly busy, sometimes up to 20 hours a day attending to people, dealing with church administrative issues, building works, etc. he barely has time to sleep, let alone carry out such practises – if this thing had truly been going on for so many years and is still going on, more than 4 people would have definitely left and spoken out…Apart from these 4 people leaving, many others have come and gone for various reasons – but no one else has mentioned these allegations….
Hi Radicalised. The allegations have not been proven – but have they been investigated by an independent authority?
And if you look at other cases where similar allegations have been proven, it is often many years if not decades later. The Catholic church in the UK and Ireland has had to come to terms with years of abuse carried out by some priests in the 60s and 70s – these events did not come to light until this century.
Evidently victims often find it difficult to make complaints, especially at the time and when they do, many are not believed. I think it must take real courage to stand up and say that you have been abused, surely it must be easier just to slink away and lick your wounds.
hi visser
i mentioned i cannot prove he hit her, but i can mention a few names through the moderator? you can ask then if you ever go.
some south african chefs had gone to lagos to teach scoan cooks how to cook. instead of getting down to business, they were treated as visitors and instead cooped up in the visitors room being made to watch tb joshua videos. they were angry cos they had given valuable timeaway from their businesses and were not preparesd to just watch videos for a week. like everyone else, they had to wait to see tb joshua.so they left
when tb joshua heard they had left, he was furious. all of us were scared to approach him. lots of disciples wer making callls trying to stop the chefs from reaching the airport and persuading then to come back. the disciples co-ordinnating then got the blame. tb joshua was yelling at everyone in yuroba and mock-lunging at ppl as if to hit then to make them flinch. so this one nigerian girl was on the cordless phone and asked tb joshua something, and he turned and hit her across the face.it was not a punch, and she did not fall down. she just carried on as if nothing had happened and continued with her conversation on the phone, though it was clear she was struggling to compose herself. i mean, the phone ws tremvling.
there were about 15 ppl in the room. this was in 2006.
i believe this hs happpened before because later another south african visitor said his mate hd seen tb joshua hit a woman, and he asked me if this was true, have i ever seen this?
i told him no.
Radicalised. You know how the women making these allegations were treated afterwards. Ostracised, abandoned, called names (liars, blasphemers, seducers, prostitutes etc…). Given this treatment, would you expect more to come forward?
Also, there is no way you can 100% rule out these allegations being true. I get that you strongly don’t believe them, that’s fine – but you can’t rule them out. Have you considered how incredibly hurtful and insulting your attitude towards them (brushing them off as if they’re nothing) would be if their stories happened to be true? You’re entitled to your opinions on the issue, but this is very much an open case, and should be treated as such. You can’t prove TB Joshua’s innocence any more than I (or any of the authors of the blog) can prove his guilt.
@ ian
as far as I am aware, the SCOAN did not ‘ostracise’ any of these people. To ostracise means to ‘exclude from a group’. In each of these cases, it was the person themselves that chose to leave and made it clear that they did not want to have anything more to do with The SCOAN. What you are saying is like, for example, a group of animals were moving together and then one of them decides out of their free will to leave the group and go there own way and then the group of the rest are then blamed for ‘ostracising them’. i think if i was tb joshua or one of the scoan members who were close to these people and they came to me and told me that they no longer want anything to do with me or the scoan and they don’t want any more contact, I would respect their wishes and let them go. I would just remember them in my prayers. And yet you call this as ostracising and abandoning.
You said: “Have you considered how incredibly hurtful and insulting your attitude towards them (brushing them off as if they’re nothing) would be if their stories happened to be true?”
Before you just make this statement so lightly, how do you know that I am just brushing these off? How do you know that I (and others for that matter) haven’t taken a lot of time to think about all that these people have said, taking account of others experiences as well. You can be assured that I did not just lightly come to the conclusion that I have come to – that these allegations are false. And it did not take just a moment before i was convinced that the scoan is an authentic and genuine ministry of God. It actually took a long time.
Also, to turn your question to you – have you considered how hurtful, painful and insulting your attitude towards tb joshua would be if their stories happened to be false?
In my own case, i have stated that i don’t believe their accusations are true – and i am praying for them. i have not started a campaign against them on the internet, called them names, labelled them. I have not slandered their names, misquoted them, or warned others of them. I do not hate them.
But this and more is what you (and others running this blog) have done to TB Joshua and you stated yourself that you can’t prove his guilt.
You have never visited the scoan and have only spoken to very few people who were once discipled at the scoan, you have believed what they said and then viewed everything else that came out of the scoan through that negative filter. You speak sarcastically, sardonically and critically about anything related to the scoan. the way most of you are writing so voraciously against TB Joshua expresses the sentiments of hatred – please correct me if i am wrong. The definition of hatred is: Intense dislike or ill will.
Look, even if TB Joshua and The SCOAN are your enemies (and i believe you are convinced of such, otherwise you would not have been taking so much time out of your job/ family etc. to write comments about them on the internet), Jesus said, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. I can’t really see how what you are doing is showing love to TB Joshua or The SCOAN. If TB Joshua is truly your enemy, a false prophet or of the devil, why not pray for him?
It is true the Bible does warn of false prophets, fake signs and wonders and the antichrist, but I never saw it mention in the Bible that we as Christians should take it upon ourselves by our own power and might to warn everyone of these false prophets and fight against them. If truly you are right and God is on your side, why do you feel you have to fight for God? Surely, God can fight for himself.
I believe this is why you rarely see TB Joshua standing up and replying his critics. Hardly a week goes by before you see one article or another appearing in the newspapers or on the internet attacking him, accusing him, speaking against him, but he rarely replies to these. He just believes that he is doing what God wants him to do. He is just carrying out his assignment from God to pray for those that are sick, cast out demons (mark 16:16-17) etc. give to those in need, reconcile broken families, etc
Have you considered how painful it was for tb joshua when he heard about these allegations if they were false? People that he has welcomed, taken care of, supported financially and spiritually etc. for years suddenly to turn around and accuse him. He is a human being.
Hi Radicalised. Thanks for your reply.
You’re talking about a different thing to me regarding people being ostracised. I’m talking about being ostracised from family or long standing friendship groups. Of course if they choose to leave SCOAN they are creating a separation themselves, but that’s a separation from the church, not from their friends and family. Your analogy of the animals makes no sense whatsoever, unless these animals had phones they could keep in touch with those who left, or email accounts so they could email them. The problem with SCOAN is you’re either in or you’re out. If you were once in, when you leave, you’re not just leaving a church, you’re leaving behind friends and family who no longer want anything to do with you, because you don’t want anything to do with SCOAN (note that difference, don’t want anything to do with SCOAN, not don’t want anything to do with their family).
Let me explain my position to you regarding the abuse allegations. TB Joshua is a man in a position of considerable power. A sizeable number of young women have claimed to have been sexually assaulted by him, all telling strikingly similar stories. I can’t know for sure if they’re true, but I can say categorically that they need to be investigated. I’ve never claimed that I know these allegations are true, but you have said you know they are false. You can’t possibly know this. For SCOAN to sweep these allegations under the rug and pretend they never happened is a gross abuse of power. Imagine the same scenario but applied to any other person of authority – a prime minister, a teacher, a police officer – can’t you see why this is a problem? I know many have asked why these alleged victims didn’t go straight to the police. I assume you’ve spent some time living on the SCOAN campus, if a woman claimed TB Joshua had just raped her, do you really think she’d be allowed to leave and go to the police? If allegations made after leaving SCOAN are treated with the contempt they are, how much more would they be if they were made whilst staying at SCOAN?
I’m not saying these claims are absolutely true, I’m saying they need to be taken seriously and looked into by a transparent and independent body. I’m saying something like the process CJ Mahaney is going through should be applied to TB Joshua (note no criminal charges had been made against CJ Mahaney either). Until that happens, I have no problem with this site existing, it is giving a voice to those SCOAN are trying to silence.
You and I are not just making the same but opposite arguments – for me, the jury is still out, for you the book has been closed, but on who’s authority?
Radicalised, I don’t doubt that this is true. But I can’t believe that you are ignorant of the campaigns against ex disciples. Have you seen the site where various SCOAN critics are accused of being mentally unstable racists, prostitutes, imbeciles, vile snakes and ‘uncircumcised baboons’? It doesn’t deserve a link here but if you google ‘uncircumcised baboon’ and ‘SCOAN’, you’ll find it soon enough. This is clearly written by disciples; they talk in the first person about procedures in SCOAN and what SCOAN supporters believe- ‘we do this, we do that’. The same posts are written on the TBJfans uk blog. This kind of language is far beyond anything you’ll find on this blog. Furthermore, the ex-disciples that I know (and that much of this vicious language was directed against) are NOT involved in any campaign against TB Joshua. They are busy rebuilding their lives, have nothing to do with this site and have only ever made a handful of comments on this blog.
This site is not driven by hatred. It started because the picture of SCOAN that I got from searching online showed such a dramatically different picture from the personal experiences of many people who had been there (not just one or two). When TB Joshua’s wikipedia page says that he’s humanitarian and prophet who gestated in the womb for 15 months and whose birth was predicted by a sage, you know that something is not right. There was a clear gap in information that needed to be filled. If you went on hotels.com and booked a hotel based on loads of five star reviews and when you arrived there were cockroaches and a bad smell and rude staff, would you keep quiet or add a review of your own? It’s fine that there are good reviews, but it clearly doesn’t reflect everyone’s experience.
This never intended to be a campaign. The only reason it has grown and gained momentum is because so many people (mostly strangers) have got in touch who have had the same experience. It is FAR more than 4 people who have left SCOAN with a conviction it is a cult. But people rightly believe that they will be targeted if they speak out (see aforementioned blog) and so prefer to keep quiet.
hi radicalised
im afraid you are mistaken about some things.
the basis of my doubts in tb joshua fo not rest on a couple of events. a big one for me was somethong i knew for a long time- there is no love in that ministry. only love for tb joshua. he hung up the phone when i told him my mom was dead after repeatedly hanging up when we were begging for help when she was dying. they knew she was a gonner. and when i was in afghan, when id lie awake all night to scared to sleep, those disciples- you know whom i refer to- not a single letter. only one person kept in regular contact for six months.
Radicalised- scoan do not care about you anymore than they cared about me or my mom. they dont want to know about annointing water producing dead mothers. they dont want to know about annointing water not being bomb proof. they want success stories.
lots of factors about scoan made me unsure (whenever my wife thought i was getting too tbj crazy, id always tell her im not as much of a child of scoan as they think i am…). it was not the disciples who left that put doubts in my mind. it was the disciples lack of love and obsession with daddy.
as for secrecy what you said about the meetings is true. harmless information is open information.
here are some secrets that were kept from me:
two disciples engaged a number of years.
the austrian disciple dying of malaria
the austria branch getting closed
the two junior prophets leaving, after saying similar sexual allegations.
the death of benson.
another disciple- one of the americans- getting tape worm
another disciple – ex junior prophet- manifesting in prayer line.
another disciple who nearly committed suicide by jumping from the roof (security guards spotted him in time). only found that out cos him and i were friends and he told me.
There really are secrets there.
also you mentioned only one case where scoan has “fought back” to correct lies being put fwd by a disciple. im afraid you are mistaken. there are LOTS of names mentioned in Beware of Blasphemers.
im fortunate that they dont really have anything on me.
Dear Radicalised
By your assertion that “none of the allegations are proven or verified”, I take it to mean the allegations of sexual abuse.
I just wanted to clarify that there are many OBSERVATIONS and eyewitness accounts that have been made about SCOAN and its practices and beliefs which cause great concern to those outside and have been CONFIRMED by disciples both present and past on this blog alone. (eg the restriction of relationships between families and even spouses and other disciples) These are undisputed.
Regarding the sexual abuse allegations, there are several that I know of but probably more. They have not been proven in a court of law (is there any possible way that TBJ would receive a fair trial in Nigeria when he is so utterly revered by government…the corruption that is well publicised is also a consideration! ) The statements of these women could certainly be said to verify each other.
Just suppose that a small child, say 3 or 4 and from a disadvantaged background (her father walked out on her mother when she was born) told her mother that her sunday school teacher had sexually abused her. The mother knows that her daughter is telling the truth for there is no way her daughter could have made up or even imagined those things that happened to her. But the sunday school teacher is also a respected lawyer, doctor or teacher and knows that no-one will believe that little girl’s word (or her mother) against his, especially because she and her mother are vulnerable. He just has to spread a rumour about that woman, either a sin (past or present…we are none of us perfect!) or a falsehood, to make an already vulnerable woman seem like an unreliable witness. In fact he has a friend who works for the local newspaper and manages to get her publicly humiliated. The fact that it is not the truth doesn’t matter….everyone still believes the sunday school teacher, feels sorry for him and allows him to continue in his role while the mother and her child suffer in silence and shame. It was no accident that he picked on that little girl….he knew he would almost certainly get away with it. He is powerful and has friends in “high places” who can get him off the hook if he needs.
That is representative of so many cases of abuse… It takes a lot of courage to tell and lots of people don’t for years. The other potential scenario in this case is that the women don’t realise they are being abused at first. They are acting out of a sense of duty to their leader and even “God” because that is what this powerful person that they believe and trust so totally is telling them to do.
So there is no way this can be proven. Not really. There certainly won’t be a video. But it deserves investigation and consideration and open debate. Whether the victims are lying, as SCOAN states, or heaven forbid, telling the truth, then they are in dire need of support and love. They have received the opposite.
@ Hattie
The analogy you used doesn’t really fit in with this case. To start off with, in many circles, TB Joshua is not respected or admired, he is actually strongly vilified and spoken against, even in his own country. Also, you said there was a reason why the teacher picked on that particular girl – I don’t really see the reasons why TB Joshua would pick on those concerned – he would have been well aware of the damage they could cause, not even being from the same country as him. Regarding the public humiliation – this has only happened in one case – as this is because the person concerned released and spread everywhere a video to deceive. I think he was just trying to correct the impression given by that video, but it was only in one case. He has not made any attempt to humiliate the other cases.
So please think well before just putting this case in a box or generalising it to just be like many others.
Also, please read my reply above to ian and take it to heart. i am not trying to attack any of you, i just want you to really think about what you are doing
Hi Radicalised….thank you for your comments. Just to explain a bit more, in my theoretical case, it doesn’t matter how liked or disliked the abuser is. The point I was trying to convey was that he was “untouchable”….The people in authority were on his side and there would potentially have been a great risk/cost to coming out against him.
The reason that any victim is selected is that they are unlikely to tell. (for whatever reason) Controllable. Vulnerable. Often dependent in some way on the abuser. Totally in awe of him or her. Unbelievable because they can be discredited in some way (as with the high profile case you refer to) The abuser is usually confident that he/she is safe.
To be honest I think the abuse allegations are irrelevant in many ways to the underlying issues being discussed. I did not even learn of the abuse allegations until well after I had realised that there was something very very wrong.
Radicalised, I don’t think you are trying to attack anyone. You come across as being very genuine and I feel deeply for you and all involved.
@Radicalised
Hi again. I just really wanted to write about the “whip of cords” and Jesus “righteous anger” I have only just myself really begun to understood the significance of that scripture and its original context. I think it is highly relevant here, but not in the way you are understanding it presently.
There was dishonesty in the temple and people exchanging money exhorbitantly…in God’s house. People coming to worship God were being fleeced and exploited by the religious system and the very priests/leaders that were supposed to be caring for them spiritually. (Pharisees etc condoned this…did well out of it even)
Jesus used the whip to drive out the animals from the temple and overturn the money lenders’ tables . There is no suggestion that he whipped anyone! and he certainly didn’t go round whipping his disciples or any of the “sinners” he was preaching to.
The traders/religious system were basically “charging for salvation”. People would try bring their lamb or their animal to sacrifice at Passover. It had to be without blemish. There were dishonest traders in the temple selling animals. If they found “something wrong” with the lamb that had been brought the person would have to buy another one instead. People were making money out of this, at the peoples’ expense. This made Jesus angry, righteously so. I found this context very helpful in understanding what was going on here.
In the very place where God was supposed to be worshipped, there was corruption/false religion.
Jesus knew salvation was not for sale.
As for Elisha….he was obviously not God. We are all sinners…
3. Healing/ Anointing Water
You said, I quote “Besides the deaths reported in the BBC piece, the authors of this site are aware of 4 other deaths under similar circumstances (not AIDS, but where they were told to stop medication and subsequently died)”. Where in the BBC article may I ask was it mentioned that these alleged deaths, are linked with SCOAN or as a result of attending The SCOAN? There is no indication of that whatsoever. The names of those churches concerned are not actually mentioned. Please don’t try and cleverly deceive those who genuinely want to find out more about the ministry. Besides that, you constantly talk about the four cases you are aware of that those concerned died after attending SCOAN for prayer, but you choose to avoid mentioning the hundreds and hundreds who have been healed/ delivered/ blessed as a result of attending The SCOAN and receiving prayer from TB Joshua. Granted, there may well have been a few (more than the four you are aware of) who have died after being prayed for but there are also thousands who testify to the healing power of God every single week. Don’t put TB Joshua in the place of God. He is not God. It is God who gives and takes as He wills. There are many many people who everyday go to pastors/ ministers of God for prayer and they are prayed for and told they are well and yet later they pass away. Some even travel around the world to many ministers of God to receive prayer for their ailment and eventually they also pass away. Is that then a reason to question or query the genuineness of each and every pastor that prayed for them? God is the owner of our souls. Also, it takes faith to maintain one’s healing/ blessing. Jesus said to the crippled man who was healed in John 5:14, ‘Sin no more or something worse might happen to you’ meaning that, if the man went back into a sinful lifestyle, he might develop another sickness or something worse. Assume the man developed a worse sickness after that, would it be Jesus then that should be blamed for the man’s demise just because the man did not follow His counselling? No one here is God and we cannot claim to know the reason why those four people who were so dear to some of you died. God knows. And our part now is to do our best to do God’s will today and not constantly debate on what could have happened or what might have happened in the past. As for advising people not to take medication, have you ever heard TB Joshua or any of the evangelists from The SCOAN saying this? TB Joshua is and all at The SCOAN are always very careful about giving people such advice. Each person needs to develop their faith personally. You can call any of the SCOAN representatives if you want to verify this. And it is stated clearly in The SCOAN’s response to the BBC “”We don’t ask people to stop taking medication,” “Doctors treat; God heals.”
There are many ministers of God/ pastors who don’t pray for people for healing at all, and when people come to them, they and regularly people die in their churches/ congregations of various sicknesses/ ailments, etc. Are they now to be blamed because of the people that died? Of course not. They are acting within their callings (Ephesians 4:11-123). How much less then should we blame someone who is actually praying for hundreds of people every week and they are coming back to give testimony (backed up by medical evidence and reports) if a few of those prayed for, God chooses to take them?
You say that SCOAN does not ask people to stop taking medication. Then explain how this BBC article came about? Explain why those known to the authors of the site tell the same story? (this is something that has been claimed on this site long before the BBC article) Explain why the president of Botswana had to issue a statement telling people to continue with their medication after a visit from TB Joshua? These are three totally unrelated cases that all tell exactly the same story – I’m sorry, but the evidence is stacked against your argument.
How many more will have to die for your eyes to be opened?
Radicalised. tb joshua prophecied that my mom and her friend were healed of cancer. the friend died a few days later. my mom died about a year later.
if she had taken chemotherapy sooner instead of listening to some nigerian faith healer, there was a ver high success rate. but she didnt. she believed his words. “the medical report leading to you death has been cancelled.” She’s dead. And NO ONE would help us when she was dying. YOU ALL distanced yourselves.
The SCOAN encourages patients to shun thier medication and discard them in front of the congregation. The evidence is clear
Can you expand on this Kalema? Is this something you have witnessed yourself?
It is not that people are not healed that is a problem in the slightest. Paul the apostle was not healed when he prayed. God had a purpose in his illness. It is ludicrous to suggest that someone praying for a sick person would be at fault if that person is not healed.
The PROBLEM is that people are, in some cases, “TOLD THEY ARE WELL” to quote Radicalised. This has been exposed by these BBC cases but there are other examples personally experienced by those here. This is false prophecy and a LIE. It is entirely contrary to scripture no matter who does it.
When they are clearly dying or ill, as Giles mentioned, the SCOAN totally rejects them. The disciples don’t see it because they are cocooned in a false environment with restricted relationships, restricted access to the outside world and even restricted sleep. They don’t even know what happens to fellow disciples who leave, people who they have known for years. They suppress their own consciences and questions. People clearly disappear all the time without trace. I know of at least three other people who have been sent home to die or have been extremely ill after “prayer” that pronounced them well and resulted in cessation of medication or cancellation of life-saving surgery.
And concerning the Anointing Water, the testimonies speak for themselves really (search for tb Joshua anointing water on youtube). In the book of Acts 19:11-12, God used handkerchiefs and aprons that had been in contact with Apostle Paul to bring healing and deliverance to people. It was not possible for Paul to go and meet all those people personally. In the same way today, this Anointing Water is being used as a medium to bring about healing, deliverance and blessing in people’s lives. And as for your nitpicking regarding the wording ‘the salvation of your soul’ – many have given testimonies of coming to a knowledge of salvation through either witnessing testimonies from the anointing water or experiencing a miracle themselves. Put it like this, if I was a sceptical, non believing atheist who did not believe in miracles, if I had sat last week in The SCOAN HQ and listened to the testimony of a woman of 53 years who had become pregnant after ministering the Anointing Water, after 24 years of barrenness and her menstruation had ceased, I think I would have sat up straighter in my seat and began to contemplate God and this would draw me closer to Him, that is to salvation. If I was not a believer and attended SCOAN London with a friend just to see what it was all about and then suddenly when the anointing water is sprayed on my friend who was perfectly calm before starts reacting violently, making strange noises and shouting “leave me” – I would definitely start to pay attention and find out if this God truly was real. In the same way that in the book of Luke 5, after witnessing the miracle of the catch of fish, Peter, fell on his knees and said “Depart from me, I am a sinful man.” He then began to follow Jesus. That miracle led to his salvation.
radicalised, i agree with you here. i dont doubt that tb joshua preaches Jesus and i know for a fact that ppl are now in heaven because of SCOAN. the friend of my mother who died of cancer was basically the same story as you. This is why. scoan is such a grey area. it seems good because good things do happen.
but the difference between you and i seems to be that you ignore every negative suggestion. for instance, why was there at one time three different types of annointing wter? why Beware of blasphemers videos? is that how Jesus said to trest enemies?
Why does he not sleep in same place as his wife?
Why would these disciples make up such lies?
Why are there pictures of him on all merchandise they sell?
Dear Radicalised
I know exactly what you mean about the miracles. They are incredible and there is much rejoicing over a much wanted baby and over a healing, indeed many healings. BUT we KNOW that Jesus warned us of false prophets, wolves in sheeps clothing, performing great signs and wonders and secretly introducing destructive heresies. Do you suppose those signs and wonders would be turning people into frogs or would they look amazing and be dressed up to look even better than the real thing? Would the secretly introduced heresies make bold statements like “Jesus came from Mars” or would they state something more subtle that at first looks very plausible and seems to shed light on a “truth”. My experience of SCOAN is most definitely the latter. (see MAtt 7:15. Matt 24:24 and 2 Peter 2:1.
The real thing is, in fact, salvation and a personal relationship with God made possible through the sacrifice of His Only Son Jesus on the cross. A gospel of miracles is a false one. We are all going to die one day. I totally believe and know that God does heal but it should never be our focus. We also were warned that some of these things would be done in Jesus name. How do we tell the difference ??: “by their fruit you shall recognise them”. (Matt 7:16) This can’t mean the miracles because the whole point of this statement is that the source is not always obvious. Surely this means the fruit in the lives of the people that are administering these wonders….
The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control…. Knowing what I know about the real TBJ and how people change as they become more involved in SCOAN….they become less and less like Jesus and exhibit fewer and fewer of those “fruits”. In fact almost the exact opposite.
The fact that there are incredible miracles is definitely not the point… As for meeting God through it…if people are diligently seeking God then it doesn’t matter where they are and what they are surrounded by. I just think it is incredibly difficult to genuinely seek God for yourself in the midst of such “distraction” and control as goes on at SCOAN…. What you get is the icing, the sugar rush (the signs and the wonders) but the cake is stale, poisonous even and just as you get very sick physically if you eat the wrong things, the same could be said spiritually. It takes you away from and lessens your appetite for the real food …which might seem less exciting but it sustains you, nourishes you and keeps you alive.
Very well said!
Hi GIles
There are loads of things I agree with you on but I do fundamentally disagree with your assertion that TB Joshua is preaching Jesus. He talks about Jesus a lot and he certainly looks like he does sometimes but it is a false gospel, Jesus plus something, Jesus with a twist….lots of destructive heresies that take people away from the truth but still look pretty convincing and ultimately bring the truth into disrepute. Exactly what the Bible warns about
I don’t doubt that in spite of the horrendous deception, that God reaches people wherever they are and that when they diligently seek Him and Him alone that they find Him. It is hard to do this at SCOAN but when people are dying I think this happens an awful lot….absolutely nothing to do with SCOAN at all. It is as if, having almost been thrown off course and trusted a false way, those people manage to get their spiritual compass away from the magnet (SCOAN) and end up following the Truth (Jesus!) and meeting with Him in a very tangible way. So I would say that no-one would come to salvation or Christ through SCOAN but in rather in spite of it.
hi Hattie,
Yeah, that is the conclusion I got. He preaches Jesus with his mouth, but the actions say something else. For example, he will say “I am not the healer, but I know the healer, his name is Jesus Christ”….but when I last spoke with him, he gave something to give to my mother: a framed picture of himself.
They will also say that yes, you can pray to God for anything, like all Christians know – but as a disciple, if you have any problem – ANY problem, the answer is the same. “Tell Daddy”. Feeling sick? Bad dreams? Stress? Its always “Tell Daddy”, or get a junior prophet to pray for you.
So there is a dependence being promoted.
HI Hattie –
when you mentioned the fruit in people’s lives getting worse whent hey get entangled in SCOAN – thats what my family noted when I was part of that ministry.
According to my sister, I just became really arrogant and aloof. I thought I knew it all, cos I got my knowledge from TB Joshua. EVen my mother was worried for me because she had seen a difference.
It is my opinion that if a person were sceptical, non-believing, atheist (does not believe in God) and did not believe in miracles they would NOT be convinced that it was a spray of water that caused a post-menopausal woman to conceive. I think that someone who you describe in such a way would want to check out the medical science behind the occurrence.
Why does the packaging on the water not make it clear that the Christian belief is that Salvation of your soul comes from a belief in the death and resurrection of Jesus.
Hi Radicalised
Thanks for your thought-provoking response. However, I must object to the way you say “you constantly talk about these four people”. That’s because they are dear to the people on this site. How would you feel if it was your mother/friend/pastor? Let’s take this out a spiritual context for a minute – if four people had died as a result of medical negligence at the same hospital, would it be acceptable to say “don’t focus on those deaths – the hospital has cured hundreds on people”? I think not…
I’m sorry that some of you have lost your relatives, but God gives and take away. Only God knows why and what caused the deaths and what if you guys are wrong and it’s not as a result of TB Joshua or anyone asking them to stop taking their medication? Please, none of us know the truth about TB Joshua only God knows. You guys creating this blog and saying all these negative things about him is really not right.
How do we know if the claims on here are true or false? and, what about the positive things about SCOAN? even the blackmail e-mail can be either real or fake. Anyone can forge that.
Maybe you guys are trying to prove a point but the way you are going about it is not telling as any truth. It’s like a group of people turning against SCOAN and trying to look for all the negative things they can weather true or false to get people’s attention. Or is this what this blog is about? trying to look for flaws in SCOAN and neglect the good things. No one or nothing is perfect. Whatever you went through is in the past and you need to let go. From all the posts I’ve read it’s like you are holding a grudge against SCOAN. I won’t be surprised if the person that wrote the BBC news is part of this blog .
You guys should take time and listen to some of the sermons at SCOAN. They encourage people to praise God even if they are in pain and a lot of positive things. TB Joshua is just a man of God (Pastor) and not God so you should stop trying to change people’s belief because of your own issue because it isn’t right. How will you feel if in the future God let you know he’s a true man of God?
Your blog posts are questionable just as you feel the things about TB Joshua and SCOAN are questionable. Some people will believe in your post others won’t, some people will believe in God working through SCOAN others won’t. But you shouldn’t be the reason why people turn against SCOAN. At the end of the day Only God knows what’s best and our opinions might be wrong.
Let me ask you something Seli. To use a similar scenario to Hattie, imagine there’s a school teacher who is brilliant at teaching the kids, all his classes get straight A’s and have no discipline problems. Then stories start coming out that he’s been molesting some of his female students. Do you:
A) Ignore these claims, he’s such a great teacher, they can’t possibly be true!
B) Say “why focus on the negative, let’s think about all the good he’s done!”
C) Demand a full and transparent investigation into the allegations, and not let him near your child until it’s done.
Does that put this into context a bit? If the claims against TB Joshua are true, they are serious enough that it totally overshadows any good he’s ever done. These claims get covered up by SCOAN, not addressed – but they must be addressed! The people on this site will keep speaking out until that happens.
This world is not our home, we are just passing through. Dying is meant to be there, whether a person is sick or not, if its God’s will one day we all shall die. It doesnt matter which way we go; babies, children, young people, middle age, old people, they all die at their appointed time. My mum was sick and bedridden for the past 4 years; she was in and out of hospital, used a lot of medication to no avail. She was a God fearing woman, always putting God first in her life but eventually she succumbed to the disease and died. Whom should I blame:The doctors that their medicine given to her was not good? Or God whom she prayed to everyday to heal her and He did not? People of God, we must know that we cannot escape death, whether we use our medicine or prayers, death will always be there, no one is going to live forever. The scripture says, do not touch my annointed Ones. We should not blame TBJ or SCOAN for the death of our dear ones. We should thank God for the lives of our dear ones who has departed and ask Him to rest their souls in peace,while we are also waiting for our turn to come.
Nobody is perfect in this world, nobody.
I’m sorry to hear about your Mum, but you’re missing the point Exodus. The key part of this news story is that there were people with AIDS which could have been cured, or at least controlled by drugs. A pastor told them they had no need for these drugs because they were healed, they followed this advice and are now dead. You’re defending a non-existent scenario.
With all do respect ian, I think you the one missing the point here. You can not prevent death, wether by prayer or drugs or whatever, if God calls you it’s time to God. It’s as simple as that.
Actually, I can tell you with absolutely certainty that you have missed the point! Nobody is denying that people die naturally, or blaming pastors because people they prayed for die. What people are drawing attention to is that TB Joshua pronounces people healed, who then very soon after die of the disease he pronounced them healed of. In some cases these people were told by him or his disciples to stop taking their medication, and it was this deadly advice which led to their passing away. That is what is outrageous, not the fact that they died at all. BTW I personally know two people who died in exactly these circumstances.
Hi Exodus,
I agree with you – everyone dies one day. Thats how I explained it to myself when Tb Joshua’s prophecy was wrong. Thats exactly what I thought. TB Joshua did not give my mother cancer. She died because she waited so long before she finally went for chemotherapy. Thats not the issue. The issue is, he got a prophecy wrong.
And no, no one is perfect. I’m glad to hear you say that ;-). It would go a long way for SCOAN to admit that TB JOshua is a sinner, like the rest of us.
At Seli
Please don’t take my personal opinion about TB Joshua to heart. There are reasons why I have changed my allegience to him so quickly. I did not just wake up one day and decide to have a it of fun (and before you ask, I was still loyal to the ministry loooonnng after my mom died). My life belongs to the Lord Jesus, who saved me so many times when I cried out to Him for help. So relax, I’m still a Christian! 😉
But there was so much secrecy at SCOAN when I was a disciple. I dont know everything about TB Joshua, or SCOAN. I was never a big-time disciple. But I do know that SCOAN is filled secrets. Places where only certain people were allowed. Meetings only certain people could go to. Books only certain people could read. And when disciples left, no one would say why. You just wouldn’t see them anymore.
One thing I do know – he is violent towards women. I saw him strike a woman hard in the face, in a room full of people. I could name the disciples who appear on EmTV who also saw it as well (Radicalised, ask Gareth’s brother).
And no, its not just TB Joshua. Benny Hinn is someone else who I thought was okay, until I saw a clip of him placing a curse on “whoever comes against his ministry”. TB Joshua releasing Beware of Blasphemers, Benny Hinn placing curses on people. It does not align with Jesus.
But the bioggest problem with this ‘priest’ is the same as with all other priests. They are telling people that that is a god and you can affect they way things occur by praying to ‘him’ when in fact there is no such thing.
All priests are scammers and frauds, some just take more money than others from their followers.
God bless you all for your continuous efforts to expose SCOAN, we are truly living in the last days. The bible says that God will wipe away all our tears, i’m sorry to all the people who have lost the loved ones as a result of TB Joshua’s bad advice. I want to say that despite what we go through in this life, “eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him” l Corinthians 2:9.
I pray that people come into the light before the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ which is soon approaching (rapture). you either look for the coming of Jesus or you look to the pastors and be deceived. All signs point to the fact that we are living in the last day’s, we are the generation that has seen many biblical prophecies coming to pass: such as middle east uprising, soon splitting of jerusalem, earthquakes, e.t.c. many people have been preaching on the rapture and exposing the devils plans for months. just check out thejonathankleck channel on youtube and many others.
we are living in a time of grace. Jesus can come at any moment. He is not coming for half-hearted people. He is coming for a holy people who are seeking after his heart. God cannot be mocked. if you feel you are not living a holy life, REPENT before it’s too late. everyone is looking at pastors instead of God. just look at Angelica Zambrano’s testimony of Hell where she claims she saw pope John ll, no one is too great for the judgement of Hell.
once again God bless you all, our savior is coming VERY soon. by God’s grace we will be found worthy to stand before him. Let all pray to God for discernment and wisdom. “the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom”. I have had a painful experience with SCOAN but i’ve left them to GOD who is our Father (children of the Light) and who is a JUST GOD. Let all children of God, shout for joy because “our redemption draws nigh”. AMEN.
Even so COME LORD JESUS COME…….
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THIS SITE, YOU PEOPLE AND MANY OTHERS LIKE YOU ARE DOING….GIVING STUART H, AN UNBELIVER, AND MANY OTHERS LIKE HIM, REASONS TO COME AGAINST OUR FAITH. IT IS A SHAME!!!!I HOPE STUART’S COMMENT WILL AWAKE YOU AND STOP THIS FOOLISHNESS. JESUS HAS NOT CALLED ANYONE TO CONDEMN OTHERS BUT TO SHARE THE GOOD NEWS OF HIS SALVATION.
stuart is entitled to his belief and im guessing he believed this looonnng before he heard of scoan 🙂
Personally I’d imagine that Pastors causing the death of AIDS victims by telling them to stop taking their live preserving medication would be a much bigger reason to “come against our faith”. By the way, check your caps lock key, I think it’s stuck.
No pastor is causing the death of people. Read your bible well and understand what is the cause of death and suffering in this world. The pastors/evangelists/children of God are called to preach Christ and HIS ability to save/heal/deliver. They are not called to preach the medicine. Medical people are doing it very well and may God bless them for their help to humanity (they do not need pastors to help them there). So, going to any pastor for prayer and asking him what to do with the medication is a provoking question. It’s also a question that proves your going there for prayer is out of feeling rather than of faith. So let everyone be convinced in his own mind concerning the place or the person they are going to for prayer (before they go for prayer) and if that is so, let them accept the outcome of it, whatever it may be. Because it is God who heals/blesses/delivers as He wills.
To Giles…I will not say to you ‘sorry’ for your experience with your mom as some are doing here. Do you know why? Because your mom’s condition now is better than before. She has reached her heavenly dwelling and are still struggling to get there. I was touched from one of your statements earlier which proved to me that she went home in peace, not grumbling about the outcome of the prayer in SCOAN. You said, ‘I was still loyal to the ministry loooonnng after my mom died’. Which means in her heart she was OK with the prayer and TB Joshua. She did not put in you any bitterness. If she herself was bitter, she would have influenced you stright away. So it is wrong to be nourishing such thoughts. Somehow you are making God rensponsilble for her death, bc not even one single hair does not fall down without His permission, how much more our lives.
I am sure that as you stop talking about your past hurts, disappointments, falures and focus on your daily christian life by reading, meditating, obeying God’s Word and sharing GOOD NEWS with people, very soon you will feel different and see many things different.
And I am still saying, this site IS NOT DOING the will of God. There are many outside there speaking different lies even against Christ Himself, how much more His people. You are simply joining them in their propaganda against Christianity.
Let me stop you right there alan. She was not “okay with TB joshua”. She knew very well that there was something odd about scoan.
She also knew that scoan was hanging up their phones once we mentioned our names.
You are right though, she is in heaven. The first time I saw her body, immediately the thought came in my mind, “Why are you looking for the living among the dead”? 😉
Alan, you’re still not getting it. The problem is not that she is dead. The problem is that TB JOSHUA GOT IT WRONG
There is no way that what the SCOAN teaches is Christianity. It is the opposite of what you first think. It looks like it sometimes…it looks incredibly convincing. As followers of Jesus Christ (and Christ alone) we are called to have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness and to rather expose them….(see Ephesians 5) We are to speak out against immorality in the church, evil perpetrated in the name of God and to EXPOSE it. It is the bad fruit in the lives of anyone who has been entrenched in SCOAN or any other false ministry that calls the way of Truth into disrepute. It is not those speaking the truth about what they have experienced that is wrong. The truth has nothing to hide at all and if these were false accusations it would not be hard to refute them, at the same time loving the people that bring those accusations..
It would in fact be terribly wrong, to sit on the fence and do nothing and watch others fall into the same trap that we, and/or those we know and love have.
The “touch not my anointed” scripture is out of context and a favourite for the cults.
Look at what they did to Jesus Christ. If Paul the apostle can be mightily used after persecuting God’s own son, and if Jesus, whilst in agony, can pray for his executors..”father forgive them for they know not what they do” then how on earth can SCOAN justify this.
Whatever you call it….just don’t call it Christianity. Jesus is spoken of frequently but he is nowhere to be seen.
Hattie…that is your opinion. Do not forget the opinions of thousands that is quite toposite to yours. Many have come to the knowledge of Christ through SCOAN. And there are many still coming while you and other people in this site keep on condemning this ministry.
Which ‘fruitless deeds of darkness’ are you talking about? ‘Imorality’ which is not proven? Furthermore, there are so many youth there, dedicated to Jesus through this ministry far from what many of their age are doing in the world today. How can a imoral man help someone to be sanctified and set apart for God’s work? Or are you telling us that all of them are imorals and they went to Lagos to enjoy imorality? As if there is not enough in our place? Personally I know some of them who left their countries to become disciples and when I saw them again after a while, I was surprised at their change – FOR GOOD. No imoral pastor can achieve such thing. The imoral will give birth to imorals.
Are his wife and children imorals as well? They are living there with TB Joshua and the rest of the disciples and not just going to his office for a visit or to the church for services. So what are they doing there? Come on! A woman can be in the house and having her husband outside the whole day, and still is possible for her to find out (even after some time) if her husband is cheating on her or not. How much more his wife being there the whole day with him. If these allegation were true the first person to come against him is his wife. As has happened to other pastors.
”The truth has nothing to hide at all and if these were false accusations it would not be hard to refute them” – the authorities of these world have apointed the court to decide on such cases. But if you do not take them to the court than it is WRONG to speak about them. These girls have not taken their accusations to the court just because they do not have anything to prove. If they had, they would have done it for long. They are just trying to blackmail his name and it’s not hard to understand that they are moved out of hatred.
On the other side, TB Joshua is not taking the case to the court as well. Imagine if he does it. With all these false accusation against him (not just the sexual allegations) he would be spending his life in court cases defending himself and accusing the others. And in this way not having time for his work. So, I believe he does love these people. Love does not accuse anyone. And is right that he is letting others to know what kind of people they are. So that those who are double minded hear both sides. Not everyone that enters church changes. For sometime they can hide, but soon or late they will leave and go back to their former habits and behaviours. So a ;iar will become more liar and calling everyone a liar and an imoral will become more imoral and calling everyone imoral.
Giles,
I know that African people have big temperament, if they loose balance and control over themself do they react like steam engine?
If TBJ gives some some duties to his workers and coordinators and if they do not keep it well it can be dengerous for them.
Lagos is dengerous city to go alone. What if thouse chefs cooks would have been kidnaped. Every Lagos news paper would say about it.
If cook chefs were treated bad it shows bad reputation and organisational skills of SCOAN workers. TBJ can not control everything in SCOAN at once.
What do you think did Jesus hit traders at Jerusalem temple?
Going back maybe he wanted her to stop talking nonsense on the phone?
Giles did you run fast at that time :)?
I worked in one company and my boos was furious one time at some workers, we all run to hide ourself at that moment until he calmed down.
PS for visser,
I’m curious about your opinion of the Beware of Blasphemer Videos? (not many pro-scoan ppl go there)
And also, you know how we have been instructed by the Lord to be on our guard against false prophets – how would you go about that? I mean, what exactly would you look out for?
cheers 😉
Hi Vissier
I spent a number of years making the excuse to myself that the things that I was uneasy about regarding SCOAN were probably to do with cultural differences. This was before I heard of the more serious charges against TBJoshua that should not be acceptable in any culture in the world. I would always say that there is no valid reason for violence, particularly to hit a woman or someone who has less power, but you are saying that maybe a momentary explosion of temper occurs more openly among African people. However we are not talking about people going about their everyday lives in the culture that they live in we are talking about a man is revered as a “Man of God.” He sets himself up as a Mentor to people and gathers around him people of all different cultures. He ensures that his actions are broadcast across the world. So what is he demonstrating to all the people who look to him? Where is the self control? where is the character? where is his consideration for the people for whom he is the authority figure? I have heard people call him “our father in the lord” So is he demonstrating that a father figure will lose control in such an explosive fashion, and not then take responsibility for his own actions and seek ways to stop such explosions.
I also have worked with a boss, where it was necessary to avoid them if they were in a bad mood. This boss was known to be a bully. This boss however was not running a international multicultural ministry that was supposed to be spreading the Gospel of Love that was demonstrated by Jesus.
Jesus overturned the tables in the temple because the traders were defiling his Father’s house.
The other interesting thing is that I have only heard about this uncontrolled behaviour from people who have been inside SCOAN. (The testimony of two people) This demonstrates that SCOAN has a public face and a private face.
Absolutely! Well said!
They were leaving in the church transport, not on their own, so it was no different.
No, I did not run, but I didn’t want to go near him.
You’re saying Jesus hit women?
The story of your boss….okay…..er….so?
I’m sorry…are you actually justifying this?
Alan, sorry did you say that if TBJ answered all the allegations against him, he’d be spending all his time in court?? Is that a good reason for him to ignore them?! That’s like saying if Mussolini had had to answer all the war criminal allegations against him, he wouldn’t have had time to make the trains run on time…!
Giles,
If, If, if TB Joshua is a servant of God in prophetic and healing anointing and ministry he is only “joint heirs with Christ” ( Rom.8:17) a problem solver leaving in Africa, Nigeria, Lagos.
It is why poeple in euforia can exchanged TB Joshua with JESUS or exchanged JESUS with TB Joshua. He is not a healer, he knows the healer. JESUS is Lord, has to be for TBJ as well.
If TB Joshua will go in the flesh, he is not in one accord with Jesus. That is the problem !!! He is also the human being, who was born in a village.
Beliving who he is, is a free choice. Everyone belives what he wants.
Giles I want to stay away from the fight between prosoaners and antiscoaners I want to find where is Jesus.
SCOAN people can handle oposition well as far as I am concern. They will improve only by informations you put here on this blog. They will improve.
If chefs cook were living in church transport, did scoan workers on their duty really fail?. Was It arbitary, a kind of willfull decisions of scoanworkers?
Is in such situation loosing control a good problem solving?
Last question. What if this past situation is covered by Blood of Jesus. What if he repented?
Where is frogiveness?
where is confession?
Honestly, if he would just come out with it – just suppose it was all true, that he did hav sex with those women, etc, then yes! Personally, honest to God, I could forgive. It would not be easy, no doubt. But I am a sinner too. I have done many, many things I am not proud about. But I have openly confessed.
Im afraid my comments on the hitting-women end here, its drifting into speculation, and I want to stick to what I know for sure, and what I saw (not what I think).
No Hattie, he didnt apologise to me, though to be fair, i was just a face in the crowd. He wasn’t specifically angry at me, so I guess he wouldnt have to. I mean, I didnt’ feel like he needed to apologise to me. I was too busy being shocked at what I had seen. Even now, I’m not really bothered about an apology.
It’s interesting to talk about forgiveness in this context, given that SCOAN publically uses people’s past sins against them.
Suppose he had repented of this violent outburst (and yes, we all lose our tempers sometimes!) – for a man in his position, it would be expected that he would not only apologise to the person involved but also those who had witnessed it so that they knew it was the wrong thing to do. My pastor once said something in a service that could be construed as blasphemy (the traditional kind, not the TBJ kind) and so publically apologised and explained what he meant.That’s because it’s important for church leaders to maintain their integrity of character.
Presumably, he never apologised to you Giles?!?
Kate,
I think you touch a very good point.
Presumably TBJ never apologised to Giles, but he repented and this case is already under the Blood of Jesus. We do not know.
Look, we just came across to forgiveness issue in Christ Jesus.
Satan is our accuser and he accuses as for our past sins days and nights , even for our sins that we did and than repented for. (Revelation 12.10) Because devil wants us to stay in sins.
My question is: Are we called to be like Satan?
I always remind Satan his future when he reminds me my past !!!
Can we get to the point when this blog is fully christian?
Am I going too far ?
No,Visser, you are not going to far at all 😉
yes i agree that it is Satan who uses our past sins against us, and he is our accuser.
But why does SCOAN release Beware of Blasphemer Videos? As far as I am concerned, our sins are forgotten when we confess and ask Jesus to forgive. Why does scoan video your confession and put it on youtube if you ever speak against TB Joshua?
Yes it can be a point.
Do SCOAN people are very sensitive to any sign, indication of pride or superiority?……
Is such behavioyr treated very hot and sharp in SCOAN?……..
That is the question…….
Pride is a problem of everybody until one gets to the point of humility in Jesus Christ.
Everyone needs help in this area.
Do SCOAN people help vistors to get rid of pride by teaching to reach right behaviors?….
Whay are so many frustrated ex-disciples from SCOAN? Why? Why? Why?
Are they comming to see by their on eyes the things? Yes
Do we fight by flesh and blood against accustation atack?…………. We should fight but is this right way?
SCOAN relised “Beware of Blasphemer” film. It is their pruduct and fight conception,
Yes. It is a question? May I fight back by showing past sins confessions of people I nursed to justify myself?
Answer yourself.
God will judge it !!!! He will judge even his own prophets.
Where I can hide from His judgment? Jesus
visser, no disciple i know of is frustrated. you are more free as an ex disciple than as a disciple. some of my friends had to actually phone Lagos for daddys permission to go to the cinema.
im not sure what your answer is about the beware of blasphemers videos. i dont want to misinterpret you…are you saying you agree or disagree?
After “Bewere of Blasfemer” SCOAN gave delicate explanation that I found from another source like:
First:
Paul Agomoh was shown begging TBJ for re acceptance because he derailed when he was sent to head the branch of the church in Ghana and misused his position by getting involved in a scandalous relationship with a high-class female member of the church.
What would have happened If Agomoh instead of running out and fighting would come back for help to SCOAN?
Character? Character? Character?
Second:
Bisola Johnson during her stay in the Church was giving the chance to run the voice over in the church studio. When foreigners started joining the disciples they were able do much better than Bisola so she was asked to head another department. She picked offence and left the church for months only to come back to apologise. TB Joshua being merciful gave her another chance.
What would have happened If Bisola instead of leaving SCOAN would come back and worked in another department of SCOAN?
Character? Character? Character?
Giles,
I watched “Bewere of Blasphemers”. This film shows intersting past record from SCOAN that I would not have seen if Bisola or Agomoh did not what they did. I could see Angie, i could see Daniel with short hair. 🙂
I watched also the film that Bisola and Agomoh prepared. They choose to show to the world some old interesting scenes from past live church as well.
Every old Scoan clip I am interesting to watch.
As i said I am not proscoaner and antiscoaner. Do I care to put my word: I agree of disagree? I belive I am too small to say it. Forgive me Giles that I will not put my mark on it. Who I am, the small Visser. It will go for their accounts. I have my own responsibilities. I just learn a lot from this fight as I learn a lot from king David’s life and story.
But look, the Bible is full of stories of bible characters and kings who did mistakes and bible keeps this record for us that we can learn from.
For example it keeps David adultery and murder but he is still a king because he had a good heart and God forgave him because he had a good character, he choose what is right and he pleaded God.
Look, one disciple batrayed Jesus. 70 disciples left Jesus. I love how Jesus took care for Peter. He was a candidate to fail forever. Is anything new in this world ?
For me Jesus is the kindest person, hmmmm…the kindest prophet I have ever met in my life because I met TBJ as well.
For me it is not important what I met but what I am going to do with it.
interesting response. so to put it simply, when it comes to broadcasting ex-disciples past life, you will not say if this is right or wrong, because you ask “who am i to judge?”
am i understanding you correctly?
So if Jesus were to warn you about false prophets, and that you need to use discernmment, what would you say then?
would you reply “look Jesus, I am just small visser. who am i tto judge?”
Hi Vissier
This is completely off topic – but can you give more information on the statement that 70 disciples left Jesus and why this is relevant here?
I do respect that you are saying that you will not state a “pro” or “anti” opinion regarding SCOAN.
You have made the comparison between the records published by SCOAN and the stories recorded in the Bible. The stories in the Bible tell the sins and failings of people and also tell of their triumphs, they tell of their relationship with God and give examples of Grace and redemption. The whole account of the Children of Israel demonstrates the forbearance and forgiveness of God.
The record published by SCOAN on YouTube appears to be for the purpose of disgracing the people that are shown. How can there be any comparison?
Giles,
How I can recognize false prophet ? The answer is simple: by their fruits. (Mat.7.16)
You made yourself as an internet speaker to share informations about TB Joshua. You decided to open this way, that did not exist before.
But, but, but…..
Every idle word men may speak, they will give account. (Math.12.36)
I hope you know this Bible passage.
Allow me to proove it for myself if things you are saying are the truth,
Allow me to find it by myself, if you words are right.
Allow me to judge it only for myself without any external pressure.
What I mean:
Please, do not ask me to anwer to you : is Tb Joshua false or true? Why?
Look. Only one confession is important for our salvation to keep it: Is Jesus the Lord?
Can such question for me “is TB Joshua false or true” be needless? Yes it can. Why?
I can not find in the Bible that I have to be and Advocate for any prophet except Jesus.
You choose this role for TB Joshua. What for?
If you would truly ask me. Small Visser: Am I doing right to walk this way?
I would answer you that: you are very probably wasting your precious time.
Don’t you think that you decided to sell yourself very cheap by this walking?
Giles. Please. Am I really trying to say something to you now honestly?
I decided to do it after your last comment.
Look….
Crowds like what you are doing.
But, but, but
Am I going to far by saying gently that this is similar case to situation when a women sells her “life” to everyone? Men like it but she made herself “trash”.
Hi Visser,
‘How I can recognize false prophet ? The answer is simple: by their fruits.’ – that’s a very over-simple answer, as a metaphor. The question is what are these fruits? What do they look like? And in this context, does SCOAN & TBJ produce such fruit?
‘Can such question for me “is TB Joshua false or true” be needless? Yes it can.’ – of course you don’t HAVE to choose if TBJ is false or not – but if you must already fall into one of these four camps:
1) TBJ is a true prophet – therefore you take on board the things he says, and might argue his case in this debate
2) TBJ is a false prophet – therefore you disregard the things he says, and might argue against him in order to protect & help fellow christians from falling for a false prophet.
3) You are unsure of TBJ’s true/false status but keen to find out – therefore you should consider both arguements & listen to your heart & God and come to a conclusion
4) You are not concerned about TBJ’s true/false status – in which case why comment here at all? Surely you cannot believe that it is okay for a follower of Christ to be unconcerned about his fellow Christian siblings salvation and well-being?
There IS a big question mark over SCOAN, and it’s one that is ignored at great peril. If you can happily answer Yes then I guess you should merrily accept what goes on there, but if there is even a shaddow of doubt then the allegations are serious enough that this question mark deserves consideration.
hi visser, no you dont offend me.
are you asking why i am bothering to warn people, and by doing so i am some how selling myself?
its an interesting view, and i appreciate the delicacy you put it. The answer is because i know TB Joshua is deceiving Christian. i dont like this fact. i wish someone would have warned me. i thought all the anti-scoan websites were stupid and too crazy to be believed, and i was using all the same argumebts as you: who am i to judge?
but if en ex disciple had pulled me aside,sat me down and calmly explained what goes on there behind the scenes, i would have listned alot more to what they had to say.
unfortunately for me, no one did this.
oops – sorry Visser. I have just realised that I have twice spelled you name incorrectly.
NM, Giles
I see 4 alternatives from you.
Hmm is this tipical for Platonic or Aristotelian style of thinking, where I want to rule over everything by dividing everything? Of course this question gave me Caucasians from Europe among where I live.
Actually I relay on alternative You do not gave me already in fully way only partial.
What it is?
I am not obliged to proof to the world if anyone who is acknowledged as a prophet or puts the name of “man of God” upon himself. Why?
TB Joshua is not my obsession
I am obliged to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I am obliged to choose if Jesus Christ is the Lord and truly a prophet that was sent? Everyone prophet that says: I am a Messiah is false.
Did TBJ said that?
You came from place where was a big pressure to be under obligation: is he from God or not from God? It is why people are still thinking now without a rest about TB Joshua in the form of: is this a cult or not? Is he a false or true?
Who is TB Joshua ? First he is a man, not God. I can boldly say it.
But where is Jesus here? Is He lost here ? A bit lost. That what I may say.
( 2 Tim.2,15) Am I preach the Gospel in a right way, by the way of washing one’s dirty linen in public? This is childich yet, unmature yet, fleshly style yet, for sure. There is a highier way.
Am I going to proof to the world that Jesus is Messiah by proof that TB Joshua is false? 🙂
Do I want made TBJ a sacrifice, that I might be right ? That is the qestion.
Is this a kind of unhealthy obsession?
If I had known what this means: I desire mercy and not sacrifice I would preach in positive way. Paul Apostle found in the churches disgusting things, but he always used a positive language. Look to his letters and learn from him.
I have this sense here, that some people at all costs, at any cost want to proove to the world that TBJ is false and are forgeting something more important.
We need irrefutable proofs.
But, but, but
Remember always, that the Blood of Jesus can knock your proof down against You.
Can I just say that Visser you are entirely correct when you say you need to make your own mind up. It is your choice and you are responsible for that choice before God. If you really seek Him with pure motives and are prepared to accept an answer you do not want (if necessary)The nature of deception is that when you are deceived, you
believe something other than the truth. You do not, at the time, have any idea of this and often resist even strong evidence that does not tie in with your current belief. Seeking the truth takes great courage sometimes. But we must do it. We have a responsibility to ourselves and are accountable to God for our choice.
If you see someone being murdered and you are a witness, could you stand back and say “my account doesn’t matter…everyone else can make up their own minds as to whether this happened or not” . When that person murdered again….you would live with the knowledge that if you had said something that victim might be alive. We have a responsibility Visser. Do you not
see that Giles and all who have experience of the secret face of SCOAN have
to warn people? It ends there. You don’t have to
believe it. You don’t have to listen. You do have to make a choice and you should look at all the evidence.
That witness to the murder might seem to spare himself an awful lot of persecution and intimidation.. Eg from gang members seeking revenge or to intimidate. But does that mean he shouldn’t report the crime?
Even if you are suspicious you have important evidence but are not sure.. you have to speak out. It is up to the jury what they do with that evidence you give. If witnesses failed to give evidence just in case they were wrong…many criminals would escape justice. The witnesses are just that…witnesses. Each of us has to weigh up the evidence for ourselves.
I agree that for most people…whether TBJ is of God or no..does not concern them. Each must look to Jesus Christ and Christ alone for salvation.
BUT if you are condoning or supporting or promoting this in any way you have to be sure it is the right way. It matters hugely to your spiritual wellbeing and that of those who are around you.
It is as if the signpost (to God) has been twisted by SCOAN. It is pointing in the wrong direction. The road looks well paved and is beautifully kept up. Some of us know that there is something wrong with the signpost. We started to walk down that road but we turned back because we saw the warning signs and had the courage to say we were wrong. We were “wooed from the jaws of distress” We want to warn you of
what may lie ahead. The road down which the SCOAN sign is pointing may be paved
with gold and it may smell of roses but all is not as it seems.
Fix your eyes on Jesus Christ and ask for
wisdom. If you love the truth you will surely find it.
Please do read 2 Thessalonians 1 and 2.
Small Visser. I am small too. I also once thought..”who on earth am i to question such a man of God, i am nothing in comparison.
Hi Visser – I have read your comments with interest and it has made me think again, why do I comment on this site, why do it I follow it? I think Hattie’s comment is very useful in me understanding my own motives.
Close friends of mine have been involved and one has died after being healed. Those friends have separated themselves from their families and friends. When I tried to find out more about what happened to my friends, I came across allegations of sexual abuse from more than one person. Gradually a picture built up for me of an organisation that does not demonstrate the fruits of the holy spirit (love, truth, self control etc) and a man who does not meet the 1Tim 2 requirements for an elder. I drew the conclusion that this organisation is not a healthy place for christians or non-believers to be.
This site has given me the opportunity to bear witness to the evidence I have encountered, to help people who have come across SCOAN and want to know more, like I did. They can read my evidence and fall into one of NM’s 4 categories – they may decide it sounds dodgy and steer clear, they may think I’m wrong and go for it anyway, they may not know what to think or they just may not care (in which case as NM said, they probably wouldn’t be looking at this site anyway).
Visser, I think that you need to make some decision about where you stand. Would you be happy if your daughter/sister decided to go to SCOAN in Lagos or not? If you were sick and TBJ pronounced you healed, would you stop medical treatment or not? If a natural disaster struck your town claiming several lives and he produced a previous prophecy of a similar disaster that did not actually name your town, would you believe it or not? You may only be small, you may only be you, but you are you, you are 100% you. And only you can make the decision for you.
Hattie, Claire & …..
Yes I would agree that it is my own decision.
Is this also a case of my heart purity and heart freedom in Christ Jesus? A case of my language and tongue holiness ?
This is a case of my strong integrity and unity with The Lord Jesus, because if I am deep establised in Christ Jesus, false or true prophet does not pose a threat to me.
Hepling to find a deep union with Christ Jesus is the right solution and the way how to aid and assist others to be strong and immune against any falsehood.
Hi Visser. In regards to those with a strong unity with Christ not being vulnerable to deception, I would have to respectfully disagree, because the bible makes no such claim. The bible describes these false prophets as wolves in sheeps clothing, it says they masquerade as angels of light, it says they will deceive even the elect. Because of this, we all must be on our guard against deception, and none of us can perfectly discern right from wrong. Certainly a close relationship with Christ helps, but it doesn’t give you immunity. How close do you need to be to achieve total immunity? How do you know when you’ve got there? To be honest, and with the greatest respect, to hear someone say that they believe they’re immune to deception makes me believe they’re already deceived.
Ian,
This is again the good point.
Will I make to stabilize it, when I say by writing that:
Christ alone is a solution to your questions? Why?
As quick as you exchange Jesus with any prophet or any Messiah after Jesus you may be easy decived.
Jesus warned us that we can not put on His throne (He is the Lord one) any prophet and any next Messiah.
Do you know that TB Joshua will bend his knees before Jesus one day? You, also me and everyone as well? It says me something.
Every prophet after Jesus is not equal to Jesus and never be. Can not be.
Are Ian is showing us that he can not live with Jesus as Lord? That his life continually needs any additional prophet?
Can you live in freedom, in maturity from a need of additional “master”?
Maybe not yet ?
Master is One, Saviour is One. Lord is One.This is not a well without bottom.
According to your question how deep.
I should keep Jesus always in a right place that is reserved only for Him.
As fast I am going to exchange Jesus with someone else I am without immunity..
That is why I do not fear, That is why I have no obsession with any prophet or who calls himself as a prophet.
Sorry, you’ve totally lost me now. And I think we’ve gone totally off topic. I can see this conversation not going anywhere. Nice to have chatted, but I think I’ll leave it there.
yes, that is a good way of looking at it. Encouraging people to rely on the Blood of Jesus, and not on TB Joshua’s annointing water :-).
i disagree with the conclusion you made not to warn christians though. if my friend was friends with bad people who were committing crimes in secret- tell him!
or if they were getting involved with another cult, scientology…tell him!
i would definately not simply throw up my hands and say who am i to judge? i am only little giles.
Giles,
Relay on the Blood of Jesus is always the best way.
Second issue we are still disscussing.
Don’t you think that If he will listen blindly only to Giles, relay only what Giles says, grope Giles way, you may create the same problem you are running from or you fight with?
At that point you are not a liittle Giles, Now you are trying to be a Lider in the internet and YOU ARE. I can be small Visser beacuse I point to Jesus.
Where do you point?
So you may create the same problem you personally may have with TB Joshua?
What if you usurp yourself a position to be the Light to the world not being it?
That is the question we are trying to answer? This blog is more about You Giles.
Is Giles trustworthy? is Giles a Leader? Who I have finally to listen to? From where is your Leader mandate? Giles?TB Joshua or JESUS?
Maybe Giles is a false prophet? 🙂
Are you in this circle? Probably?
Which circle? This circle:
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. (Rom. 2,1)
Giles who You Are? Help me to find this answer. You are not small now. 🙂
The question you are fighting with and about TB Joshua you have to proove about yourself.
From where you are comming? Who sent you ? 🙂
Remember Jesus warn me against falshood.
Hmmm. Take it easy.
hi Visser. Wow! I’m a false prophet because I am spilling the beans about TB Joshua. I thought you said you were unbiased?
Visser, I’m a afriad this is a discussion that is going in circles. I never expected you to believe anything on this site, nor are we begging you, because I was exactly the same. I defended TBJ so much, without actually considering what people were trying to tell me. None of my comments are really aimed at people who have already made their minds up.
I do not run this site, but I do comment on it for people who really are unbiased and trying to find out more, e.g. a friend of mine was planning to be a disciple there but changed her mind when she asked me about my experiences.
I have not met you, or anyone else on this site but if you worship Jesus, thenyou are my Christian brother, I would like to save you the expense. But at the end of the day, its not my money 😉
As long as you set Jesus aside as Lord, then at least the damamge is limited.
Thanks: the same problem was encountered in uganda in the 1970s and 1980s where evangelists claimed to cure the crippled , the amputated and all diseases but they were exposed that is why you rarely see ugandans visiting the synagogue COAN. Secondly water has always been used by witchdoctors and spiritualists- Alice Lakwena who claimed to be a prophetess and presently Joseh Kony who is being hunted by 200 American Helicopters; water was used to turn ammunition into water and turn stones into bombs and cause rain to fall and to heal AIDS. I maintain an open mind without taking anyones sides
Oh, thats that guy that those american soldiers deployed to Africa a week ago….(was on the news ever so quickly)….American foreign policy strikes again.
Anyway, this is all off topic.
I was given this water that everyone is so depserate to get. It didn’t do anything for myself or the people I sprayed it on. Three of them are dead.
Ian , I have watched very many live online videos of this over the last five years
I don’t doubt it, but this is something SCOAN explicitly deny, so if you knew of any specific videos online people here would be very interested to see it.
I have recorded live videos online in the hundreds
@Kalema you are very right about water use.I am from Africa as well and so many of the witch doctors and white garment churches use water to perform all sorts of miracles.They are called water spirits and its not of God.They also give very accurate divinations but its not prophesy at all.These false prophets really mean to deceive people in thousands because they use these water spirits and still call the name of jesus.At least with witch doctors its clear they consult spirits of the dead so when pple go there they know its not of God.But with these false prophets its tricky
Another important point is that since two months ago the Scoan stopped carrying out the Sunday healing of deadly diseases: It is now being carried out on Thursdays and is no longer televised and no concrete reason has been offered for this
It is also important to note that Scoan london no longer has any fixed meeting place: they cannot meet in Bexley Heath Academy – Their meeting locations are now kept secret eg in hotels , private houses etc
Welcome back Radicalised. I have read your responses and sense a tone of sadness at this whole situation. (please feel free to say that I am completely wrong with that)
You have said “I did not just lightly come to the conclusion that I have come to – that these allegations are false.”
Could I ask you a question – have you had the opportunity to talk face to face with any of the people who have alleged that TBJoshua has asked them to do sexual acts. Have you had the opportunity to hear their account first hand, in an environment where they can speak freely without fear of recrimination, where they have been able to say how it has affected them emotionally?
The reason why I believe that the allegations are true is because I have heard these accounts first hand. I really did not want to think or believe that this might be true because of the implications that it might have for people who are important to me. I can still recall the sick feeling after I had spoken with the first person who told me of their experience. I took no action until I had directly heard two people talk of being sexually abused and a third person tell of many other situations in SCOAN that do not give glory to Jesus. This is the reason why I wish this information to be in the public domain because I would not want, by my silence, any other girl to be at risk of the actions that I have been told about. Members of my family are involved with SCOAN and the thought that any of them may have been subject to similar experiences is something that concerns and grieves me deeply.
I will add one other point. I know that there are people who contribute to this site who regularly get together to pray. To bring their concerns before God. This includes praying for TBJoshua. It is about praying for the whole situation, that the Love of God is supreme over all of it. That the work of the Holy Spirit is accomplished and families and friends involved can be reconciled, and ultimately that the name of Jesus is lifted high.
The scoan London has now moved to Clore management centre birkbeck college university of london . It is a place which is a bit hidden form people
Thanks Kalema for the information. I think that is where they used to meet a couple of years ago. According to their website they were about to move because of the number of people who were coming.
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